I am at the end of my rope

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Sun, March 02, 2008

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Water Brash

At this point I don't know where is to turn to. Previously I have posted that I suffer from Water Brash. This started in early Nov 07. At the time I was being treated for H. Pylori which was discovered through an endoscopy in Oct 07. I was diagnosed with mild gastritis and mild esophgogus inflammation. I thought "no big deal". Boy was I wrong.

I have been suffering form Water Brash for the past three months.

1. I have seen my Primary Care Physician five times. She did not know what the cause of the water brash was.

2. I have seen two ENT's. The second ENT said I had acid reflux and he recommended I take Prilosec and Benadryl. These drugs did nothing for me.

3. The GI said I now have a Hyper-Acidic condition in my stomach because the H. Pylori bacteria has been eradicated. Therefore, my stomach is still producing excess acid to feed the eradicated H. Pylori bacteria. I have never heard of such a thing.

4. The GI recommended I take 40 mg of Aciphex a day for six weeks. I had to stop taking Aciphex because of sever side effects after two weeks.

5. The GI then switched me to 80 mg of Protonix a day. The Protonix made the water brash evenworse.

6. I now take 80 mg of Nexium per day. So far no change in my symptoms. I understand Nexium is very similar to Prilosec(same basic ingredients and made by the same company). But Nexium costs much more.

I also now feel like there is something stuck in my throat, my throat feels hoarse, and at times I feel a slight burning sensation as I swallow food and after I eat. At other times I feel slight heartburn all day.

Can anyone suggest something else I can do. I get about an hour of sleep a night and my life has been a nightmare. Please someone, anyone offer me advice, information or anything.

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Anonymous

3/ 4/08 12:36pm

Try drinking 2 OZ of Aloe Vera Juice after each meal. You can buy it at GNC stores cost $8.00 for 32 OZ It coats you and stops the burning.Make sure its 98% pure.

sqwakvfr

3/ 4/08 7:15pm

Thanks for the tip. I have been taking Aloe Vera juice and DGL for the last three months.

Vicki M

3/ 4/08 9:08pm

Hi sqwakvfr,

I know you have been suffering with this for some time and I am sorry there hasn't been a breakthrough with your doctors so far. Let me take your symptoms one at a time and pull the information I can find on them. This isn't to take the place of any advice your doctor would give you, but might give you some ideas for what to ask on your next appointment.

Burning when swallowing: There is a link here that talks about some causes, a couple of which are serious conditions.

The link for what Acid Reflux is and what medicines are prescribed for Acid Reflux is here. Perhaps you see a drug that might not cause the same issues as the Aciphex and Nexium?

There is a good link with a solid definition of what Acid Reflux is here. Given the symptoms you are experiencing, it appears that the GI diagnosed Acid Reflux and that is probably what you are experiencing, the only problem is, how to treat it, since you are having difficulty with some of the medications.

I do have one question. I am not sure if the water brash appears as acid or if it's just saliva? Are you experiencing the acid reflux part? Sour taste, bitter bile like?

I have referred your questions over to the resident experts. It takes a bit of time but they will review your posts and get an answer for you. In the meantime, perhaps the information above has sparked a question or two for you to ask your doctor. Either way, please do stay in touch and let us know how you are doing!

Vicki M

sqwakvfr

3/ 4/08 10:21pm

Thanks for the information. The water brash appears almost like a white, frothy saliva. It has small bubbles but is odorless. When I spit it on my hand it will dissolve into a clear saliva. My throat at times feels hoarse but I do not have a burning sensation in my throat. At times I do have a slight burning sensation in my esophagus. But this is rare and very minor. It does not feel like the buring sensation I used to have before the H. Pylori Treatment. This all started while I was taking Aciphex and two anti-bitoics back in November. What I eat and how much I eat does not effect the water brash symptoms. I did an experiment and drank some coffee and had some wine with dinner. There was no change in my symptoms.

I have been taking 80 mg of Nexim for the past 3 days. My symptoms have not improved and lately the symptoms seem to get worse about 30 minutes after I take the Nexium.

Thanks

Vicki M

3/ 8/08 11:46am

Hey sqwakfr,

Hang in there. I have been looking around for more information. I do know that according to Dr Eisner, you have to take the medicines for weeks and months sometimes to get the desired effects.

I will continue to look for information.

Vicki M

sqwakvfr

3/ 8/08 9:33pm

Vicki, thank you for your assistance, support and understanding. I am very grateful. It has been rough but I am keeping a postivie outlook.

Vicki M

3/13/08 11:51pm

Hey Sqwakvfr,

How are you doing?? Noticing any improvement ?

Hope you are feeling better. Stay in touch!

Vicki M

sqwakvfr

3/14/08 5:43pm

Vicky, thanks for your concern. No real improvement in my symptoms. I have been taking a PPI for the last 6 weeks(Aciphex, Protonix and now Nexium). So far the only good news is Nexium seems to give me the least amount of side effects. I've got about another week and a half supply of Nexium left. I see my Gastro in two weeks. I don't know what comes next.

So far chaning my diet, the amount I eat and the frequency of eating seems to have no effect on my symptoms. I've tried coffee and then stopped without a change in my symptoms. I've also tried a glass of wine with dinner but my symptoms did not get any worse.

Even though my H. Pylori breath test came back negative I suspect I could still have this bacteria. I'm afraid I might need another Endoscopy(I just had one in Oct 07).

Once again thank you for your concern and thoughts.

Yong Park

Vicki M

3/15/08 10:35am

Hi Yong Park,

Gee, I am sorry you are still having issues. Did you try any of the natural remedies? I know that Papain (an enzyme in Papaya fruit) is supposed to be helpful. There is a sharepost here where a member talks about eating papaya to help with the acid. There is also a sharepost here where members gave some tips for natural remedies. There is also a link to Dr Todd Eisner's posting about Papaya here.

I hope this information helps. Please do stay in touch and let us know how you are doing!!

Vicki M

Chuck

3/15/08 3:10pm

Hi Yong Park,

I have been a suffer of waterbrash for about 4 years. My excessive saliva got to the point where I had to spit out frothy white saliva about every 5-10 minutes during the day and I even kept a plastic bowl by my bed at night. What a nightmare. My family doctor had no idea what was going on. He sent me to an ENT who placed a tube down through my nose, but said every thing was fine. I kept changing my diet over the four years, not eating this and that, but it never got any better. I did have good days once in a while, but the waterbrash always came back. About a week ago, I skipped breakfast and had lunch instead. I felt great, so I wrote down what I had not eaten; eggs, sausage, and toast with real butter. The lights finally came on when I ate a meal of chicken, rice, and vegetables with real butter and had a terrible night of spitting. Real butter was the common food. I had switched from margarine to real butter about 5 years ago. I have not had to spit at all after about one week, having gone back to using margarine. I wanted to share my story with you, not that your problem is the same. But wanted to encourage you on how very slight changes in diet can be one of the keys to solving waterbrash. By the way, I am not allergic to any other dairy products. I will pray for your recovery, knowing first-hand how mentally and socially crippling this is. I haven't worked for quite a while because of this problem. The best of luck.

Chuck T.

sqwakvfr

3/15/08 9:06pm

Chuck, thanks for your thougths and prayer. I've tried a brief experiment with food(eliminating some and then reintroducing them back into my diet). So far no luck on that end. It looks like my problem is GI related.

I'll keep working on it and hopefully it will be resolved soon. I haven't been able to work since this problem started. I pretty much stay home most of the time.

Thanks,

Yong Park

Barbara

3/31/08 1:11pm

I share your problem, have they found out what you have, can they fix it, please contact me and let me know what you were told...

Bar007@mtn-top.net

sqwakvfr

4/ 2/08 2:44pm

Hi Barbara, I've been to the GI twice and I really don't think he knows what I have. I have classic symptoms of Water Brash. The GI did not say I had a hiatal hernia or even Acid Reflux. On my visit in Feb 08, the GI said I was very acidic because the H. Pylori had been eradicated and my stomach was still producing a lot of acid to feed the H. Pylori. Apparently H. Plyori thrives in a high acid enviornment.

In the last 8 weeks I have been on Prilosec, Aciphex, Protonix, Nexium and finally Zegerid. These drugs did little to improve on my water brash. Aciphex gave me horrible side effects and Protonix seemed to make the water brash even worse.

This monday I went back to the GI. He gave me a presecription for a drug called "Hyoscyamine". This drug is a anti-spasmatic which is suppose to decrease my salive output. But the listed side effects of this drug are very scary. Apparently this drug affect the central nervous system. Therefore, I am taking this new drug very carefully. The GI prescribed the lowest dosasge available (0.125mg). I am taking it twice a day(before dinner and before sleeping). I have been on it for a day and half. This new drug seems to dry up my mouth, throat and esophagus. But I am now having moderate burning sensation above my navel(classic gastritis symptoms). Also, this morning about 90 minutes after a cup herbal tea, soy milk and a banana I started to have the same burning sensation above my navel and sever water brash. I took a 75mg Zantac and this surprisingly relieved my symptoms. I called the GI yesterday and asked if I could take Zantac along with the Hyoscyamine, but he has not returned my call.

To me it appears the best way to deal with this is to take the Zantac in the morning to reduce the acid and then take the Hysocyamine later in the day and night.

Hopefully, this will work because at this point I am functionally disbaled because of the water brash. I have not been able to work and being on those PPI's for last two months has but my GI system on a violent roller coaster(constipation, hard bowel movements, and abdominal pain).

I've mentioned the possibilty I am suffering from Bile reflux or bile gastritis but the GI didn't seem interested in hearing about any self-diagnosis on my part. It might be time for me get a second opinion or even a new GI but my medical insurance limits this.

Take care and I'll be in touch.

Yong Park

joanie22

4/ 4/08 5:33pm

We have a lot in common. I have exactly the same thing as you (mine started on Nov 2, just a few days before you) and I have been going out of my mind.

My story is very similar to yours.

How is the Hyoscyamine working? What brand name did your doctor give you? Have you been allowed to take it along with the acid medecine??

Let me know..... I am also going out of my mind.

sqwakvfr

4/ 4/08 6:41pm

Hi Joanie22, it is generic hyoscyamine (with insurance the cost was $6.45 for 60 pills). The GI told me not to take any acid reducing medication while I take the Hyoscyamine. It was really tough the first two days. I had really bad gastritis symptoms(deep burning sensation above my navel). But the symtpoms have decreased a lot. I called the GI and he told me to try and hang in and take just the Hyosyamine until my next visit in 8 days.

I am starting to think the saliva I am constantly spitting might contain some bile? I am now getting a sour taste in my mouth and throat. The water brash has not really got any better. I have been on Hyoscyamine for the last four days(3x 0.125mg). Apparently this is the smalled dosage of this med you can get.

I'll let you know how things go. I can't take much more of this.

Yong Park

Southern California.

Joanie22

4/ 5/08 12:29pm

Do you still have a sensation in your throat and are you still sometimes fealing hoarse?

Anonymous

10/25/08 7:42pm

Your LES (lower esophageal sphinter) has possibly failed. You need esophageal manometry to determine if there is any pressure left in it. If not, then you may need a laproscopic Nissen fundiplication. It may not completely solve the problem but it will slow down the natural course of the disease.

How old are you?

Sandi

5/12/09 5:37pm

I have experienced waterbrash for a year now. I had an endoscopy done about 5 years ago, reaveling a hiatal hernia. I take Prilosec but it's not much help. I tend to drool at night often while sitting up. I finally just gave up and let the frothey drool come out. I'm 57 and doctors are no help so far.

Anonymous

7/ 3/09 4:23pm

Why don't you toss out the medication and opt for a natural approach. If you have tried everything the Doctors have thrown at you, maybe you need to try something that is kinder to your system! Research Natural Cures for your condition. Try some of them. Find a Naturopathic or Homeopathic doctor. I feel your pain!I was diagnosed with a Hiatal Hernia and Gastritis and Reflux, so I know most of what you are going through. Homeopathic remedies don't usually come with the horrible side affects that the man made medicine does. I hope you find relief!!!

Jiminy Cricket

12/15/09 12:59am

To: Yong Park (if you're still checking the site) and anyone else with suggestions on how to handle Waterbrash.

I have a real mix of diseases which complicates things. I have rheumatoid arthritis, very possibly lupus, sjogren's disease/syndrom and of course the G.I. issues: gastritis and acid reflux. The sjogren's makes the waterbrash particularly irritating. For anyone unfamiliar with sjogren's, it is an auto-immune disease which primarily dries up your eyes (no tears) and mouth as well as the vagina. So, it is very common for me to be so dry that I must drink water, etc. constantly just to be able to speak. My lips will literally get stuck to my gums making it really difficult to talk. I sometimes nearly choke on my food which doesn't break down without saliva so it can be swallowed. The rest of the time, I have waterbrash which is a bigger problem for me. With the sjogren's I can drink to stay hydrated but nothing I've found seems to work well with the waterbrash. I take 40 mg of Protonix twice daily and another drug, Ranitidine 300mg which is prescription strength Zantac.

To be fair, up until very recently the Ranitidine seemed to work to eleviate the waterbrash. Now, it has ceased to be effective even though I've taken an extra Ranitidine (300mg) and Zantac 150. Finally I tried Benedryl. It seems to be working somewhat.

Does anyone have any remedies to share?

Thanks.

lys

3/29/10 5:27pm

To the Waterbrash sufferer, I have very recently been diagnosed with lupus, GERD but the waterbrash or continuous spitting of clear liquid ever so often is upsetting my life and I can't find a cure. I've done colonscopy and endoscopy[bile in oesphagus] and still to do a barium meal and taking every antacid available. Can someone please help me.

I am at the end of my rope

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