Friday, April 23, 2010 NC asks

Q: Can a nurse tell you when the person will die?

My father-in-law has urinary problem and he has catheter that helps him to urinate. It has been like this since April 1. In May he will go through some simple procedure without whole body anaesthesia.

He also looks weak and does not like to eat food although he is eating better now given Ensure as well.

The home care nurse judged by Tuesday's order by the urologist and told my husband his Dad is dying in 6 months if the procedure does not work, or 1 year if the procedure works. (Tuesday the urologist tried to see if he could urinate but my FIL could not for 9 hours.) Either way, he is dying in a year in her opinion.

My question is the doctors don't tell us this. Does the nurse have the ethics to tell the clients that the elder is dying in certain time?

I thought only a doctor can do that. How accurate is that?

Nina

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Answers (3)

Christine Kennard, Health Pro

4/25/10 10:46am

Hi Nina

I see no problem with a nurse expressing her opinion about something like this. It is only her opinion, often based on many years of experience of working in healthcare.

We caregivers often ask for an idea of how long someone has got left when we try to evaluate what treatments or proceedures we should put our loved one through. In end of life care there sometimes does come a point when, with the help and guidance of medical professionals we have to say enough is enough and it can be hard making that decision.

But as you say, predicting when life will cease is not an exact science and there are usually many variables in the equation.

Hope this helps

All my best wishes

Christine

Dorian Martin, Health Guide

4/26/10 1:43pm

Hi, NC,

I also don't have a problem with the nurse expressing her opinion, especially since she sees your father-in-law every day. However, know that she may be wrong. In our case, the nurses at the nursing home thought that my mom was going to recover from her last infections - and she didn't. In fact, I was the one who started realizing that Mom probably wasn't going to survive much longer. So know that an opinion by a medical professional is just an opinion, and there are various factors -- other health issues, the person's will to live -- that may ultimately be the deciding factors of how long the person lives.

Take care and keep us posted!

Dorian

4/26/10 2:14pm

Dorain,

Thanks for the reply. The nurse was wrong 3 years ago when everyone thought my FIL was going to the end stage but he didn't. Now he is sort of in late stage 6 and not in a good mood. I am not sure she is expert here and I don't think she has a right to tell me she is so sure and that my questioning her is backfire. It is our right as family to understand the whole thing. My nephew who is a family doc. just told me it is reprehensible for her to be so sure and predict that. Only a doctor can really say - you know only a doctor can sign for the hospice!!

No doctors have told us anything of that sort. I would think the nurse's opinion needs to match the doctors'.

Thanks for the nurses' opinions, but think about the family as some human people who are being shocked!! She told us like she thinks we were too optimistic - she has no right to demand her client to be unhappy or negative just because she feels so. She told us at the wrong timing as well. I don't mind the opinion and I wish she is more humble.

Nina

4/27/10 12:23am

The nurse DOES NOT see him everyday. She lives 2 hours drive away. She calls a lot and comes once a month if needed.

Nina

Dorian Martin, Health Guide

4/27/10 8:30am

Hmmm.... Then I would consider her opinion one of many. She does have medical knowledge, but I'd probably confirm her thoughts with your father-in-law's doctor.

Thanks for clarifying!!

Dorian

Marly

5/23/10 2:25pm

When a nurse is telling you this it is only her opinion and hers' alone. My father in law endured a brain anurysm back in Dec/07 and they gave him 18hrs. To this day he is living with us. Yes he has now got Alzheimers' and it is from my point of view being a Healthcare Aide that he may be around for another couple of yrs or sooner.

You can always check for what they cal Mottling. This is where the toes and finger nails change color. The toes being that much more easy to see. The toes will usually get a brownish/blackness to their toes. This can come right up the leg but normally doesn't. Ensure is a great supplement for him but try and get him to eat anything creamy. Things like soups, drinks, nutrient bars, etc. If he is not urinating properly their could be a problem in the prostrate as did happen to my FIL. He ended up going in for Prostrate Surgery to widen the area. Try having him drinking more fluids, this will help him tremendously. As well as cranberry juice. If he isn't drinking that much you should check his eyes, mouth etc. where moisture is there. If not he could be dehydrating and perhaps be put on IV. My father in law has his Ensure in the a.m. then he eats his fruit and then his bar (Nutrient Bar). I have found that the Ensure gives him more of an appetite.

I guess that depends on the individual as well.

I think when the nurse answered you, she thought that you were well equipted for death. The only item that really concerns me is the possibility of him getting pneaumonia. I seriously hope that when he goes to the Dr. he will give you so much more Advice, and this is good, even if it hurts your family. It is best to know. Even when he does eat, basically baby food make sure it is not getting caught in the flap in the mouth. If it gathers' there he could choke and you or hubby have to get your fingers in his mouth and get it out. My FIL will eat whatever you give him

Take care with him and for him and when the nurse does come in ask her about him dying. She will be the one that you should speak w etc You can't be left in the dark and nor should you be. Take care and if you feel that you need to get it off of your chest by all means call me. Take care and may God be with you!!

Q: Can a nurse tell you when the person will die?

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