Dear Willcole,

I am not a doctor but I could relate to your situation from my experience with my father-in-law. Keep in mind that your Dad's state of mind is not unusual. My FIL has been private and antisocial all his life. He is self-absorbed and has never admitted that he has Alzheimer's (he now is in early stage 6 and forgot his career as professor in details.)

My FIL didn't want to be diagnosed or tested either. He saw doctors but he was arrogant to think he knows better as he was trained as MD PhD in Europe. He was retired as emeritus professor but still wanted/wants to work on his own study thinking his son/my husband is in the same field (for 25 years now, my husband has never been in the same field even though he is professor also.)

My FIL only got diagnosed by accident when he tried to decide if he could drive back in 2006 when he had mid-stage/moderate stage AD. The doctor referred him to a test  center where the neurologist/psychologist/psychiatrist did 3 hour verbal test in office. He failed somewhat and was diagnosed with AD in early stage - this stage was wrong as it  was just educated guess and he lied to them about some questions such as if he took a shower (he didn't). However he was willing to take the drugs for AD. He has never admiited he has AD and he has lots of anger and agitation now due to the progression.

I don't know what you can do  for your Dad if he does not even see a doctor. Can you find some friends in medical field to persuade him? I know he does not have friends,  but you must know someone who is a nurse or a doctor or a social worker.

His anger and refusion is nothing new. My FIL did the same but he was/is willing to see doctors.

Maybe you can ask for a home health care nurse to come home to see him. The trick is you cannot irritate him even if it is really pissing you off. He just will not get it. He is not like regular people who can reason with you.

You need to find someone to diagnose him - he may not has Alzheimer's but he may have dementia or depression. If all fail, you may need to call ER when he gets very  bad and the hospital can do what is necessary. Sometimes one even calls the police if he goes out of hand in his anger... Hope it does not go this far.

There are many medical experts in this group and I hope they will give you better solutions.

Regards,
Nina

Willcole

1/10/10 11:33am

Thank you, Nina. It's relieving to hear from others who have, or are going through the same thing. I am going to forward these responses to my Mom and see where we can go from here. Thanks so much.

Hello.  You have been shouldering a lot.  Congratulations on finding this site and beginning the process of seeking assistance.  My own family was largely in denial when my father became this way, and he would have been better off if we had, much earlier, sought a medical intervention.

There are many kinds of dementia, and your father might not have alzheimers or vascular dementia.  Some of his issues might indeed be caused or enhanced from the self-diagnosing he's doing and the supplements he is taking.  Might it be worth pointing out this to him, if you do end up trying to talk with him about going to a doctor?  I have to say that the signs of paranoia and aggressiveness he is showing do suggest dementia that might be vascular or might be alzheimers.

Is his aggression such that he might strike out at you?  If it is, please be sure that if you do speak with him and attempt to create an intervention you are prepared in terms of padding on your clothing and so forth.

In the meantime, I'd suggest you call your local office of the aging to see who (from which organizations) might come over and make a household visit, so that your father might be seen in his own home. Being seen in his own home might be less stressful for him, which in turn might mean he might be less aggressive.  Social services might be able to make an in-home evaluation of your circumstances and provide you with physicans who are better prepared to handle problems associated with patients who are aging.  Your physician has every right to work to preserve the dignity of his personnel.  On the other hand, that he did not consider dementia as a possible root cause of your father's behavior is a bit surprising. Your father definitely needs a physician and neurologist more sensitive to his needs.  The neurologist is likely to have some training in dealing with difficult patients.

I think you'll find your phone book has some useful offices that can assist you.  Look up Senior Citizens, or Office of the Aging in the blue pages of your directory, or seek them out on the internet.

Please know you are not alone in this situation.  My father died of multi-infarct dementia back in early 1993.  His symptoms were much like those you describe.  We tried to handle it as a family.  I, being the youngest (like you, it seems), was most interested in getting him some medical help but was always overruled by older sisters and my mother, who seemed almost ashamed of his condition.  I felt no shame whatsoever! My dad was suffering, and no one wanted to find out why. I am glad you found this site.  I myself found it only a month ago, and it has been a very helpful and supportive daily stopover, ever since.

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Willcole

1/10/10 11:41am

Thank you for the reply. With all of the research we have been doing, we are leaning towards vascular dimentia. I know we need professional help for a diagnosis, but it seems impossible to get him to go to any doctor. He has had high blood pressure most of his life. He tried to treat it with exercise, diet, and supplements for the past 40 years. He sought medical help about 10 years ago for the high blood pressure and has been on medication along with what he was already doing, but I think the damage was done.

 

I don't think he would ever physically strike out. He has always been very verbal and loud until we give up, or he is satisfied that his point won, but never physical.

 

Thanks again, I am going to share this with my family, along with the other replies, and try to figure where to go next.

NC

1/10/10 1:50pm

About this pbysical thing, I would like to let you know that my FIL was also a gentleman who never believed in beating kids or wife. He didn't even believe in arguing and he hates any confrontation. He'd rather sit quiet and do his research. However ever since he got sick wtih AD, he has started being defensive/mean starting late 2008. He told me he wanted to beat the caregiver with his cane as she didn't do what he wanted. He said he would never beat his own son. Why then he could hit women! He will never undedstand that now as he is very defensive and he would not even trust his own son when he gets into that kind of bad mood! This is due to his frustration and confusion.

 

So make sure you watch out for your Dad's temper.

 

Nina

Been There

1/24/10 9:11pm

You need to take control of your fathers situation before it is taken care of otherwise.  My husband's family was in denial about my MILs dementia.  She had not been formally diagnosed with anything and the family doctor was way out of his league trying to treat her mental state.  We hired a caregiver to stop her from wandering off while my FIL was taking a nap.  One day she hit the caregiver as the caregiver was trying to bring her back home.  The caregiver called 911.  The police came and told us that she would either go to jail or a psych ward for evaluation.  We chose the psych ward.  We should have chosen jail.  She was released to a memory care facility 10 days later on 8 different drugs including 2 antipsychotics.  That was 6 months ago.  Now she can hardly walk, cannot talk and cannot feed herself.  I don't know if it was the drugs or the disease that caused her rapid decline.  She was never a violent person.  The hitting of the caregiver was something that no one would have ever thought.  Take your father for a geriatric assessment as soon as possible to get him the help he needs.   Go to a geriatric specialist or a neurologist not a psychatrist.   I wish I had the courage to insist that my MIL was properly evaluated a year ago. Things might be different for her today.

terenceprobin@btinte

11/15/11 3:26pm

please help my dad has full blown dementia i need helpm with where he can go on a one two one looking after i am at the end of my tether omg

 

Hi

I have the exact same situation as you with my dad, except there are far few players in our lives. Its just him and me. I get yelled at all the time as well and he is extremely resistant when it comes to going to a doctor. He has a GP whom he's been seeing for 10 years and initially he was okay to see him once in a while but now he just doesn't want to go anywhere.

The point I feel is that they are very sensitive to the tone of our voice. Yelling or arguing isn't going to win the situation and it only puts them in greater depression. So I've had to be patient and keep repeating the answers to his repetitive questions the whole day.

Usually they are not very resistant if the situation presents itself. So if the nurse showed up home and said that she wanted to take his blood, he'd probably co-operate. That's what I do here. If you give them a heads up on what's coming, they start worrying about the event and start becoming hostile since they are afraid to face the situation. So maybe try going out with your dad and pull up to a clinic "suddenly" saying you have a headache and would like to see the doctor. But preplan with the doctor about his condition and maybe the doctor could start up a casual conversation with him. With my dad, he refuses to come anywhere because I probably lost his trust of taking him to the doctors!!!

As for getting yelled at -- I guess the best thing is to make sure you are "out of his way" and don't do anything that he would usually does trying to be of help. They don't like being helped and so you just have to treat him like an adult.

This has been my experience. Hope it works for you!

Hi

My Father has been diagnosed with Mixed Vascular and Alzheimer`s Dementia of mild severity.  Mum died 5 months ago and warned us but we never saw it coming.

Since then it was really obvious untill we started thinking that maybe he was grieving but after the Doctor referred him to the memory clinic at the local Hospital we have a better understanding,  this is not the same prolem that you are experiencing as you cannot refer him to a doctor but my Dad is also well educated in the Chemistry industry and unfortunately many people who are very intelligent do not inherit common sense or a sense of reasoning.

I had to be very instrumental in reporting him to the clinic to have his licence removed as he would end up injuring someone.  My wife being slightly on the outside summed it up.  She will see it in black and white, you have to eventually tell them rather than ask them what your concerns are and act upon them, regardless of the consequence as there is no time like the present.  It will go against your instincts, but that is the way it is, as if you do not act in this way you will be blaming yourself later on in life when he is very unwell, why you never did this as it will be so obvious that that is what you should heve done a long time ago!!!!  a hard pill to swallow eh?

All the best Ian

Hi Willcole,

As a person currently dealing with a very verbally abusive FIL with Dementia, I can relate to what you are saying so well.

I also just buried my MIL in July who died of Alzheimer's.

We moved them close to us so we could be very close in case of being needed. My MIL should have been diagnosed years ago. Both my FIL and husband had their heads stuck in the sand and would not listen. By the time my MIL was formally diagnosed, she was stage 3. Way to late to help her much.

I started checking places which could help and give us many, many excellent things to look for in an Alzheimer's patient and so much information was the Alzheimer's Association in our town. You can Google Alzheimer's Association and I would strongly suggest going to a one on one meeting with a person in the office. The information they can give you is fantastic. Also, there are support groups that can give you a lot of information and give you the tools you need to deal with certain situations. You need to get him to go to a Neurologist who can diagnose the stage he is at. You mentioned that he took medication. Find a good neurologist, call, explain the situation and make the appointment. When you take him, tell him it is for medication refills. Be sure to tell the neurologist that he is verbally abusive. Then he will know how to proceed with your Father.

In your Mothers' case, you can not allow him to be verbally abusive to her all day. It can cause her to have high blood pressure and can lead to TIA's. (mini strokes) It can cause her to have numerous health problems from the stress. And believe it or not, she could be scared he would hit her in one of his screaming sessions. My MIL was always afraid my FIL was going to hit her. We kept close tabs on the situation since they were around the corner.

Also the neurologist can order a driving test and can do so in a way that your Father does not get too upset. The biggest deal with the drivers license is, when a person has to give up the license, they feel they are giving up the biggest part of their independance. In reality, they are. You have to look at it in the way I explained it to my husband. What is going to be worse, having your father take a drivers test, or killling your Mom or someone else on the road because he insists on driving? How bad will you feel if that person he kills or scares for life is a child? As for the drivers license, remove it from his wallet while he is in the shower or sleeping. When it comes up, well you must have misplaced it.

A person with Alzheimer's or Dementia can not control their actions. As much as they would like to and as much as you would like them to, they can not.

Believe me, I took care of my MIL for over two years with her Alzheimer's. She was a calm person. My FIL however, was not. And as he is progressing now, he is in no way shape or form a calm person. He is very, very verbally abusive. We go to a resturant and he now will cuss out the waitress if he does not get his way. As much as I would like to say he has Dementia, it would make the situation worse.

It is not going to be easy. Seriously, check out the Alzheimer's Association and check for support groups in your area. The worst thing you can do is not use the support system. You will need it all and so will your family.