You suggest that perhaps feeling less depressed than before may be one end of the sprectrum in hypomania/mania. Thay would explain what I'm experiencing right now. I get up, brush my teeth and fall apart. Then for hours I'm OK not "up" but certainly not depressed. But some hours later or the next day it's the same cycle. I want to through myself in front of a train. Really. Actually. I feel I need hospitalization. I cry for 10 minutes to one hour and then I go back to not feeling as depressed or almost but not quite "baseline". I "window shop" on line without purchasing anything and I feel somewhat lifted. I think of my son and how I could feel so grateful for his steady recovery from active alcoholism, and my ability to pay for his Sober Living Enviornment. I could feel grateful for a job that keeps me busy that keeps food on my and his table. Grateful for his sister with whom I have very few if any real problems. But I don't feel grateful, I feel nervous and edgy with the feeling that I could "tank " any second.
I've described this to my psychiatrist and were both waiting until my April 27th apointment to re-eveluate my meds. I don't know what I'm doing. That's actually all I do know
Hey, Cathryne. I hope you have a doctor who will listen to you when you describe this. This is a perfect example of what I would call - for lack of a better term - a cycling depression. You could also call it a highly recurrent depression. Not only are you cycling, you're rapid-cycling. It's a bipolar pattern, even if you don't officially meet the diagnostic criteria for bipolar. But you would have met the diagnostic criteria for "manic-depresion," which included these cycling depressions.
So two questions for your pdoc: 1) Would you be better off on a mood stabilizer (to get the cycle under control) rather than an antidepressant (which might only speed up and intensify your cycle); 2) Were you cycling this much before you went on an antidepresant?
I'm not an MD, so please don't interpret this to mean you should be on a mood stabilizer instead of an antidepressant, but this is the kind of discussion you need to have with your pdoc. If he or she gives you the brush-off, then you need to find another doc.
Hope this helps ...
Hey John 
Just to correct a mis conception. i have been on both carbamezapine and Klonopin for 2 years. That's it. I haven't been on an anti depressant for maybe 10 years. I have discussed what's going on with me right now with my Psychiatrist and he does not want me on an anti-depressant I am so, however, that even mania, which I experience as road rage to steal your phrase, would feel better than this. But I will bring up the cycling issue with him when I see him. Thank you for your reply and allowing me to clear up the med issue with you
Hey, Cathryne. Goodwin and Jamison in the 2d edition of Manic-Depressive Illness mention "highly recurrent depression." And the way you are experiencing them it's like you're rapid cycling, only not "up" into mania or hypomania. You're going up and down in the same day, maybe more than once.
I'm very cautious about suggesting meds, but the docs who talk about "soft" bipolar are very bullish on Lamictal, which is supposed to work on the depression end of the cycle. Your current mood stabilizer is more of an anti-mania med. The clinical trial evidence isn't there for Lamictal. From what I gather, GSK made some key mistakes in setting up their trials. But these docs swear by the stuff based on what they've seen in their own clinics.
Again, not a recommendation, but definitely something to talk to your doctor about.
Dear John
Thank you so much for all your work on this for me. I appreciate it. When Lamictal was first described to me it frightened me. I have both staff and exema on my back. I felt another rash when depressed an not quite paying enough attention anyway was not what I needed. My doctor's recomendation to elevate the carbamezipine dose may or may not work. I was on an elevated dose of Tegretol when I was in my 20's and 30's for a seizure disorder and never knew (or I may just not have been...) I was bi-polar until I was taken off the med by my nerologist. (HA HA funny, right?) So I am hoping that the same dosage will "cover" the symptoms. It may not work. I'm 20years older. I may have to try Lamictal. I'll keep ya'all posted.
Hey there
This is Merely Me over from MyDepressionConnection. I am so glad you are writing about this topic because I think there are a lot of misperceptions about mania. There are some people who wonder if they are manic because they are no longer feeling depressed and are feeling a little energized. Mania...as you have described it is not the same as the absence of depression.
I just wrote a sharepost on this site to ask people for their advice on what to tell a parent who has a son who is going through a manic phase. My friend wants to know what you all most needed from your family as a teen or young adult coping with Bipolar Disorder. My friend's son has become verbally aggressive...is highly irritable...engaging in reckless behavior and...she doesn't know how to respond to all this. Her son is on medication for his Bipolar Disorder but it doesn't seem to be curbing the mania right now and...she fears for him.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated.
I'm sorry...I am not linking very well lately it seems.
Here is the link to my sharepost asking for help for my friend.
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
So, All: I spoke with Dr Smyth and he has raised my carbamezipine dose and I'll/We'll (he and I) will just have to see if that works. I know I'm sick of this, whatever "this" is. He did seem to listen this time but I feel like sometimes I get canned answers from him. This may be one of those time, it also may not be.
Hi John,
3 months ago, I was hospitilized for being very manic.
Now, I'm not manic and miss it. I'm not up or down. I have no "feelings".
I'd rather feel elated or so called happy.
I sleep 7 or 8 hrs a night now, instead of 3 or 4 hrs a night.
I wish I was more up, but the meds I'm on decrease my feelings.
I'm taking Lamyctal, tegretol and rispidone they work pretty good but now I'm quiet, and not up at all or down.
The only bad symptom is I'm not good with money I spend it when i got it, shopping, gambling or whatever.
Is this a good state to be? I don't like it.
Sally
It is very difficult to get used to being "evened out," as I call it. Where there are no high highs or low lows. For some reason, I missed both. That was the most difficult part of recovery (next to having to take the meds) -- not feeling anything. Or rather, that balanced feeling. Now that I've gotten used to it, however, it is great. I know now that I can depend on myself to be basically the same each day. I don't have to alter my daily schedule according to what my mood is.
This is a very helpful article for me. I am a mother of a child with BP1. Not having the disease it is sometimes hard for me to truely understand my child's suffering.
So, i want to say thankyou to you John for all of your intelligent information and to those who share what it is like for a person who has Bipolar Disorder.
Thank you.
i'm a firm believer of "things happen for a reason." i just got home from school and on my way home, i had to pull over cuz i was crying so hard that i couldn't see and i could barely catch my breath. i've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder 1 throughout the span of 15 yrs. i don't have any family support and have no friends due to my social phobia and other anxiety issues...so, i take it upon myself to read, learn and find new ways of coping or understanding what i'm going through.
i recently had what i thought was one of my "cycles". i was swinging pretty bad and mostly from rage to depression to the feeling of losing my mind. i was so angry that after a few days i chugged a wine cooler in 2 minutes, then smoked a bowl of pot in 4 minutes in hopes to"calm down". note that i'm already on meds for depression, anxiety, hypothyroid, insomnia, ADHD and bipolar. this happened around 4:45 pm. so, i had already taken my morning meds. the booze and pot finally hit me and i lay down on my bed and i felt myself drifting away on a whole other level. my heart was racing, i couldn't talk, move, breathing was unstable, etc. i passed out. when i came to it took me about 40 minutes or so to get out of bed with the fear of missing my night meds (bipolar) cuz i get real sick if i miss a dose...so, i take them except for the zolpidem cuz..."i don't want to over dose". bad idea! the symptoms i had earlier resurfaced and got worse. the last thing i remember was praying in my head..."don't let my son find me dead". i couldn't call him for help & i had locked my door when i decided to smoke pot and chug a wine cooler. unable to move, i passed out again. THANK GOD i woke up the next morning.
a few days later, i find that i'm still on a rampage and verbally abusive to my oldest son and now to my fiancee. i'd go from feeling justified to feeling guilty to feeling like i'm losing my mind...then depressed. my anger was what scared me most. this time, nt only was i hurting others but i almost killed myself unintensionally cuz i didn't want to be so damn angry. how do i control it? am i premenstruating? do i have a legitimate reason for being so pissed off? are my meds working? i decided to go to my doc and asked for a med adjustment. she referred me to a counsleor who told me i was misdiagnosed and that it was all cuz of my poor diet and lack of exercise and sleep. that i had a lot on my plate and didn't know how to handle it in a positive way and that the meds aren't working either because of the junk i eat or cuz there's nothing wrong with me (bipolar, etc.)
she referrs me to another counselor i haven't met yet and i just saw another one yesterday who also said i'm misdiagnosed cuz i don't show signs of having bipolar or anxiety or depression or ADHD. he said i should take domestic violence and anger management classes, eat healthy/exercise and follow up with the counselor i haven't met yet.
so, i guess what i'm really trying to say is or do is find out...why am i getting this reaction and being told i'm misdiagnosed? could it have anything to do with the extensive knowledge i have about my disorders? or that i'm on so many medications? that i'm not showing symptoms at that given moment? could it be that i'm so used to hiding my anxiety, putting up with the panic attakcks and that i took a clonazepam just before my session? or is it all in my head?
am i not only losing my mind here or am i addicted to being "sick" that i can't see clearly? that i can't see how i'm "labeling myself" or that i can't admit to myself that i was menstruating or just have anger issues?...they didn't even give me a chance to tell them i over-dosed or that i can't keep up with my hygene or that i'm homebound for up to a week at a time and that when i leave my place i can't leave alone or stay away for more than 2 hours.
i'm considering stopping my medication cold turkey-all of it. just to prove them or myself wrong. i hate taking pills everyday, i hate feeling restricted cuz of my "misdiagnosed disorders", and i hate when people tell me there is nothing wrong with me when i clearly am not behaving normally. if nothing was wrong with me then why am i so afraid...of MYSELF?
the reason i said i believe things happen for a reason is that i came home to check my messages and i stumbled upon your article through an email. i specifically signed up for bipolar disorder. what are the odds of my dealing with this issue, questioning my countless previous counselors and psychiaatrists and symptoms, etc...and stumbling across your article?
my point is -i need help. i feel ashamed and embarrassed for having asked for professional help and being told that i'm basically just fat, need exercise, bitchy when i have PMS, that i just need to take some CBT classes, etc. i feel like they see me as a person who is additced to being sick, who just wants attention or worse-a violent domestic abuser.
any thoughts or comments woud be appreciated.
bluenoia~
This is a site where you can count on support. Even if people don't respond right away, your comments are read by many and eventually you will get some answers. From what you wrote, I would say you need a second opinion from another pdoc to get a proper diagnosis. I would also discourage you from stopping your meds abruptly on your own, and from smoking pot and drinking which can adversely effect your meds and mood. Trust your instincts. If you think you are being misdiagnosed, get a second or even third opinion.
I read your comment w/interest & felt like you expressed yourself extremely well as I have the same back & forth within myself: Am I really bipolar (dxed about 25 years ago)? Am I just a lazy, pathetic person who needs to have attention by being sick? Why can't I do all those things everyone tells me I "should" do to feel better--eat healthier, exercise, do this, do that, etc. I'm just so tired some days I can barely make it & want to just go back to bed & oblivion w/lots of sleeping medication. I feel like a failure when I compare myself to what I am like when hypomanic & able to do all those "shoulds" & feel good about them & myself instead of this lousy, unfulfilled, lazy, etc. etc. person.
Well thank you for that - i've been thinking that there's something really wrong (sic) with me! I have often said that i'm manic most of the time with the depressions catching me off-guard very quickly and staying 10 days (at the longest) i'm really relieved when i have a period of being depressed. If not for these i would have burned myself to a crisp ! I do get a lot done (in the early stages of mania) and i do make a lot of friends and people do perceive me as really funny and sunny - but it doesn't stay that way - the longer the mania - the more out of hand - not even the medication helps me to sleep - my head races out of control - everything's quicker - i would (and have) get down on my knees and pray for it to stop - the worse for me is the fact that i cannot get my head to shut down - i sometimes see myself as howling like a wolf to just get some relieve from this horrible racing brain - and then the speeding and accumilation of tatoos !! thank the good Lord that i could get a grip on my alcohol consumption !! My psyciatrist prescribes more and more medication - i don't mind the seroquel because that actually helps me to sleep - but the epitec makes me slow so now i take only half of what she prescribes - and the lithium is ok - nothing that i could see as far as affecting me too much - for people that think that this is just an imagenary disease i would just like to say - i would be howling mad and sitting with my arse in an institution (maybe even jail) if it was not for my medication !! anyway that's all i wanted to say - thank you for finally touching on this subject
I went through several years of that up-and-down cycle. It was either a 3-ring circus or the pits of hell. I was in and out of hospitals constantly because I got off the meds constantly. The minute I felt better, I would convince myself the meds were no longer necessary. Wrong! But Zyprexa really helped me get on the right track. I slept and ate too much while on it (for 13 yrs) but at least I COULD sleep and I COULD eat. I had had trouble doing either before. Now I'm on Saphris and not sleeping quite enough (could use an extra hour or two) but am really enjoying having extra time and enough energy to get through a productive day. I don't mind taking Saphris means no non-compliance issues with me. I skip one day and I crash and burn, so I am very careful about that. I hope you get to that point where you are "balanced" in your moods, or "evened out." It is better that way.
I have these states a great deal and I used to have a psychiatrist who diagosed them straight away, or after about 10 minutes of talking with me. Your explanation (and I do have your book) was spot on and my husband read it and said that was what is is like on the outside as well (for those around me). Unfortunately my Doctor has retired and I went to one session with my new Doctor where everything was misconstrued, even my vocal cord disorder (spasmodic dysphonia) which makes me sound a little shaky - and I told him that straight out - he said at the end of the session that I was very anxious as he could tell from my speech - good grief. I was not manic but he said I was as was talking fast - I tend to do that too with the vocal cord disorder as I try and get everything out quickly when i'm on a "speech roll" and I had told him that as well.
he basically told me that I was too high and anxious and I should try ECT again (!) as I had only had one session and it sent me higher than I had ever been before and made me unbearable to be around (even though I cannot remember a thing). There was so much misinterpretation in the one session I told my family Doctor we needed to fond someone else as I felt way too uncomfortable and he agreed.
I don't think that Dr could tell a mixed state in a million years! And then you sum it up in a few sentences - great description.
Oh and the "road rage" - that's par for the course with me - mania and hypomania are not fun, they are very angry times. I forgot - the other thing this new Dr told me was that I was so used to being hypomanic cause it was a good state to be in that medication made me feeel flat. Firstly I take 1250mg lithium a day as well as seroquel and I am totally compliant, secondly I have has an outgoing personality since I was a very small child, but that is not manic or hypomanic, that's me - and he would not believe that either - just reiterated that I was used to it.
So not only did he try and diagnose me by the sound of my voice (groan) and the fact that I was a chatty individual, he would not even believe me when I told him I was naturally an extrovert - something my Mum could have told him was true - when I was 18 months old she used to have to put me in my cot to make a phone call as otherwise I would circle around her chatting away, or she could have told him the time when I was 4 and after singing a solo in a nativity play I had to take the collection and then would not give it to the priest - I though it was for me, for my singing! I was not an angry or sullen child, I was very happy and outgoing.
So he told me basically that my personality was not my own, that I needed way more meds and ECT and that my shaky voice was not neurological but psychological - all in the first 45 minutes.
Can you blame me for not going back!? A good Dr is worth more than all the meds in the world for me. That's why it's great to read a post like this and be able to relate to it - real stuff not psychobabble.
Cheers and thanks
Narelle
Hi name brother, My diagnose is bipolar 2 affectiv type. I have strugled with meny different deseases the last 10 to 15 years i beleave. I am now on a minimum of medication, i beleave this to be the best fore me. Earlyer i have been taking mood stabilizing, mood elevating several types at once, antipsycothic, antihistamine fore sleep. I even wanted to try out stimulants to get the "speed" on my brain to handle my emotions...
Tre weeks ago i woke upp. I hadd a hypomanic fase and was quite afraid of loosing my mind. I have seponated my medications cold-tyrkey exept for a low dose of quetapine 25mg. Now my beleave is that the the specter of my previus emotions on medication was false and unstable.
I beleave I stabilized what i beleave was false emotions by reading rubbish negative news on the net and constantly fuling on negativity. Now i try to fokus on the moment and i beleave it works greate for me. It feals like i have goten my soule back. What i mean with soul the connection to Love. I stil feal. I get inspired, when I'm lonely (like when the woman in my life went to her mother after a fight) I stil don't feal like jumping into porn or overmedication or drugs, like I have don the last dacade. I beleave I have been freed from some kind of caos. I beleave i have been putt back to Love, not via A cursh or other beleavers its a personal experience. I feal human again, I don't discust myself even when I'm doing wrong. I'ts a work in progres I and i beleave i have gotten back to my right choose when to do what. I adrres the chaos and negativity on Satan and i thank Good for the beuty and stabillity he gives me. I realize nothing is mine I just borw it from the creator. My psyciatric nurce freekt out and told me to take more quetapin, That felt wrang and i said now and demanded a second oppinion from my psyciatric doctor. He adviced me to take 50mg of quetapin for a week and that i shuld manage it like i felt for. I like to photografe, erlyer i have taken photos now I'm getting them. I stil have to bring the camera and fokus on what I'm doing to get photoes ;) Are there others you've herd of? Do you beleave I'm in a hypomanic stage because i feel like i goten back my soul and my child beleafe?
i signed up for a membership on this site cuz i have NO support from family/friends. i noticed nobody replied to my comment and hoped that maybe soon i would get a reply from anyone...but nothing.
i was going through a real hard time but i'm doing better now. i was just wondering what it takes to have someone read my comment and maybe give a few words of support?
if this isn't that kind of group, please tell me. that is ...ha...if any of you would be kind enough to reply to this comment...
Bluenoia~
ty for responding. i was really butthurt the last time i was on here. im new to this site. i was at the end of a cycle and really couldn't think clearly, of course. so i subconsciously expected ppl to read my mind and shower me with support. i have very little support so it is very difficult for me to go through my ordeals.
i will keep an open mind and learn to be patient and be clear of what i hope to find from this site.
my sincerest apologies,
bluenoia
ty for responding. i was really butthurt the last time i was on here. im new to this site. i was at the end of a cycle and really couldn't think clearly, of course. so i subconsciously expected ppl to read my mind and shower me with support. i have very little support so it is very difficult for me to go through my ordeals.
i will keep an open mind and learn to be patient and be clear of what i hope to find from this site.
my sincerest apologies,
bluenoia
Featuring Content From:
By using this service, you accept our Terms of Use. Please read them. The consumer health information on is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice or treatment for any medical conditions. You should promptly seek professional medical care if you have any concern about your health, and you should always consult your physician before starting a fitness regimen. Copyright © 2012 Remedy Health Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
I would just note the caveat that even hypomania is not always that great. When I have been hypomanic, I only slept 3 hrs a night, felt "wired" instead of "euphoric", felt driven rather than purposeful. Admittedly, I was far more creative then than at any other time. But it wasn't a beautiful creativity, it was a wild creativity painting huge grotesque masks. It was a creative muse that spurred me on to write poetry that was a little too edgy and "out there." Something that perhaps few people could understand...and I couldn't even understand. I got accolades for the poetry but then felt I had no sure footing when it came to interpretation. I never spent money out of control, had illicit sex, picked fights, or let my emotions get the better of me. I didn't feel like I could literally fly. I didn't have delusion of grandeur (except maybe I felt like I was God's gift to the world creatively.) For a long time, however, I craved these hypomanic episodes because they lifted me out of the mire of depression long enough to catch my breath and give a sigh of relief. I didn't want to do without them. I knew they were what was fueling my straight A's in college. I feared becoming a "zombie" as you said (and DID become a zombie on Zyprexa.) I had a hard time making myself take the medications (and I tried many of them) that were supposed to help, because I didn't want to change. I just wanted the "up" enough to stay awake and live a normal life. But it took many years for that to come about.
You raise a very interesting point, Donna, and one that gets overlooked when talking about mania and hypomania. I used to joke, "I get road rage a lot, and I don't even drive." I'm driving now, but road rage is the best way to describe some of these states. And you added the new twist about getting in touch with your inner Stephen King. This is really interesting.
I was planning to do an article on the road rage aspect, but I definitely want to hear more about this energized dark side. So please feel free to add a lot more to your story.
Readers: Please feel free to add to the conversation. I am very grateful to the experts, but you are the real experts.
I recently went through a hypomania phase myself for probably a good few weeks. I had missed some doses of my medicine b/c I had been sick and was also on antibiotics and was accidentally forgetting to take my meds regularly. Needless to say I, like Donna, had many, many, SLEEPLESS nights. However, they were PRODUCTIVE nights. My thoughts flowed, I contacted friends I hadn't spoken to in awhile. You just feel so CREATIVE and ALIVE. I had as much energy at nighttime as I did during the daytime hours and I felt like I had that much more energy to burn. I didn't think anyone noticed. But, after awhile my husband commented on hearing me creeping around at night and my sister noticed my rapid speech. Yet, I thought I had them all fooled. I thought I was maintaining just fine. Than PARANOIA set-in BADLY. I swore my husband was having an affair. I thought he and my siblings were forming an alliance against me. I thought about all sorts of whacky things. I kept swearing to them that I was fine and just needed a little sleep, that's all. But, unfortunately, that was not the case. My husband brought me into our local hospital for an evaluation, which I thought I had passed with flying colors. Needless to say, I ended-up in-patient for 3wks. and in a partial program for an additional week. I had so much pent-up rage and anger I didn't know what to do with myself. I was PISSED that my husband, along with the rest of my siblings conspired against me to have me admitted. I still have quite a bit of anger towards my husband that I hope to work through with some additional counseling, as well as journaling my feelings. I recall one particular night I was feeling pretty saucy and I thought I could just leave the unit upon request. Well, when that didn't work I just lost all control. I had thrown my mother's coat on (Royal Blue trimmed in Black Satin) and I was literally running around the unit and I leapt from one bed to the next trying to steer clear of the aides on the floor. I think I thought, I was Peter Pan. One thing lead to another and before I knew it I was being held down by 3-4 orderlies as they administered a shot in my rear end to calm me down. I was screaming bloody murder all the while. As I had said before, I thought I could do anything and than some. So, definitely know the feeling.