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Wow, well, I really enjoy this site when I have time for it, which is not enough really, I think it is this time and age that has brought about so many issues such as bipolar be it more physical or circumstancially brought on. I appreciate both of you guys 
if you care, and Tabby that is totally wrong and sucks that your family treats you like that, geez. Mine can but not all the time. I must say when we are in the pits of hell it sure seems like no one is there for us. I can not make this long I have another exam on Thursday, blaaaaa, never ends. One thing for sure; I feel guilty on a regular basis because my illness causes me to function at a lower level with daily activities than I would like, it affects my family and I HATE IT. I feel as though they hate me for it but I do not know, I know my husband has said things to that effect before out of frustration. Tabby I also have a family member untreated, wow that is disturbing to the whole dynamic too. Another thing worth mentioning (in a very small nutshell, it was a long time ago) is that I took a university course called "world view", a fourth year one, and it was intense. A large part of it had to do with how much the world has changed in the last 200 years and not in a good way! Before this we all helped each other, counselled each other, were not busy clawing our way to the top and isolating ourselves...commiting our elderly and sending our children away...women were always together and not too worried about "being there"....wow those were the days. (again, in a nutshell).
Very interesting, Kad. Re 200 years: a steep rise in the rate of mental illness coincides with the start of the industrial revolution. We can't say point to a clear cause and effect, but the correlation is strong food for thought. Overnight, long-established community values went out the window, along with a sense of belonging and security. Mind you, I don't think anyone wants to wind back the clock to those days - forget about individual freedom, for instance - but I'm sure we have a general consensus that our lives would be a lot easier if society were to get some of its basic priorities right.
Haha, true, and one could speculate about other things as well such as the population boom and diversification (or would that make it better?) and huge access to medical helps...in the industrialized nations that is...including what labels "they" come up with, and meds they make money off of. But my fav. movies are the olden day type, just watching some Jane Austen movies like Pride and Prejudice (the 4 hour version from A&E) as well Sense and Sensibility (no time for any books but school books) makes me think maybe I wouldn't be allowed to be this lazy, the simpler times may have been more boring and worrysome in some ways but wow, compared to the disgustingness of todays crap, I don't even know why I had children some days. Sure wouldn't now knowing I'm 'bipolar', or would it have been 'spirited' and 'gifted'...I wonder.
On the other topic you mentioned, deep down I honestly wish I could tell people I'm bipolar but i NEVER do, I did to my boss recently and wish I hadn't right away, had to because of my meds making me sick but I don't know if she can keep her mouth shut. Just have to hope. I secretly wish I could because then i wouldn't have to wrestle with this pride i have daily that keeps me from saying "well I can't help it I'm bipolar!" and I'm not really joking. But if you knew me you would know I'm joking a little. I know my husband deals with severly mentally ill every day and has quite a bit of rope for them, I admire that.
Work places make allowances for smokers to take breaks to go outside and smoke for goodness sake, so to make a few allowances for someone that has a mental illness does not seem out of line. But having said that, that idea is in an ideal world. It does not work out well for me when I tell people I have bipolar disorder. Only two people have stuck by me. All of my family turned against me. But they were not very functional to begin with. I have a gay son and he says that coming out of the closet is very healthy. I think that is so true. I live mostly in isolation now because of my bipolar. I do not date and most of my girlfriends stopped being so because of my disorder. It is very hard to maintain a healthy attitude under these circumstances. I think that mental illness must be spoken about in order for it to come out of the closet. If mentally ill people were included and treated better it would, I think, make a world of difference in how well we became and how well we stayed.....thanks for listening....Pam
The question you asked has become the central question regarding my marriage. I have a husband who has bipolar - untreated. He manages to treat our family members and pets lovingly and nurturingly, almost all of the time, except when he is at his worst.
The only one he can't seem to control his irritability around is his "soulmate" - as he refers to me. This, of course, leaves me wondering - if it's his bipolar, why can he control it around some people and not others?
Also, I feel badly reading about everyone's loss of friends and family due to their bipolar. I recognize that this curse could happen to anyone. I also see the other side - that of trying to cope with close interactions with people who suffer with it. One of the tragic things about it is that it sucks everyone else down with you, even though you are the one who can't escape yourself.
No easy answers. I look for my own sources of pleasure without hurting my husband. I do not know if he would survive on his own, and I do love him. I just can't stand him.
As a bipolar, I do not know why someone would not treat their illness. There are meds out there and therapy. If you do not have health insurance, look for some help. I am also a social worker. So, in my mind, I think you could insist that your husband seek treatment as part of your agreement to stay with him. Many people did pull away from me but some of the people did so just because I stated I had bipolar and that is simply the only reason. Others because of some of my behavior. I am now on two meds and I rarely act out now. I hope this helps you...good luck....Pam
Thank you, Pam. I know that the same meds are not right for everyone, but would you mind sharing what two meds are working for you? My husband will try one for a week or so, then decide the side effects are unacceptable. Before the bipolar diagnosis was made, he did undergo 17 ECT treatments. He had a week or so following those that he said for the first time he realized what "normal" felt like, and how far from normal he is. Unfortunately, that was short lived, and whatever permanent memory loss he suffered as a result of it is tormenting him, as his memory is trypicallly extraordinary, as is his intelligence.
Your suggestion about meds being a condition of the marriage will backfire, but I suppose it's time for another talk about meds. he went off depakote about 3 weeks ago, after just one week.
I am so miserable. Are you married with children, and if so, how does your family cope when you do act out?
I take topamax and lamitical and they both work very well for me. I was married for 24 years but I am now divorced. I divorced right in the middle of a hypomania. My marriage was verbally abusive and my ex was the verbal abuser. My life was full of verbal and physical abuse (when I was a child). My mother was very mentally ill. I did have a successful life. I graduated college summa cum laude and I have lived all over the world. Having said that, my mom was so abusive to me in her late years that my hair turned gray in a week. I had a total melt down then and I had to leave my job. These last years have been very difficult on me. My son, who is my only child, has turned away from me. We still speak but only on his terms. I am not allowed to speak of depression or bipolar. So bipolar cost me the most important and dear relation. I love my son dearly and I feel such a loss, one that no matter how hard I try, I just cannot get over.
As for me I would not want to go on without my meds. It is hard enough with them at times. If one med does not work, another one will. It may take some time to find the correct one. Often with some meds the side affects will go away and if not then try another one. Therapy with the meds has greatly helped me also. I have gone to the same therapist for years...she really knows me. From what you have said, you have not turned against your husband...you have hung in there with him..but he also has to help himself....also, mania can feel good but be very crazy and some people do not want to give up the mania. I hope this helps....ask me anything and if I know, I will answer....Pam
Thank you, Pam. It is very nice to share with an obviously intelligent and self-aware person. I have much I would like to talk to you more about this, perhaps in a less public forum, via our own private email, if you are comfortable with that. My email address fully reveals my name, so I would rather not put it here. I do need to leave for work now, so I cannot currently continue this dialogue. Please let me know if you would like to continue communicating.
I am so very sorry for your pain. People who have not been around those with mental illness have such disdain for those who have it. They do not recognize that it is as much of a physical illness as cancer or multiple sclerosis. Ironically, it is much easier for me to have sympathy for you than for my husband, since I am not the victim of your condition. I still do sympthize for him, but I also ache for myseslf and my family. Our story is fairly hair raising, but I guess yours is too.
I must go pay attention to my business. I hope to hear from you.
Nancy
My Ex spouse is bipolar but she is untreated for it. Her counselor has suggested that she is bipolar but nothing further has been done. My ex wife's behavior got to the point of abuse and then to the point of her cheating and after one separation and a failed reconcilliation I just couldnt handle anymore of it. I congratulate all with the disorder who have admitted and accepted their problem fully and are actively and willingly being treated for it. For me I didnt walk away from my wife because she had the disorder, I walked away after her behavior got so bad that she ended the marriage and left me with no other choice but to walk away and try and save my own sanity. If my wife would have accepted her problem and began getting help for it, I would have stayed I would have even went to treatment with her. I think the central question here is why there is such a stigma attached to bipolar disorder as there is to a lot of other mental illnesses.
Speaking for myself, I began to shy away from my wife because in a very real way it was like living with a time bomb that you never knew when would go off. Mental illness is a scary thing, and even though there are different mental illnesses and each has its own characteristic behaviors, its a general fear of extreme or violent behavior that those of us who arent suffering from a mental illness tend to worry about the most. For bipolar disorder, those of us who have lived with a spouse or loved one with the disorder and have been the victim of their negative behavior and/or abuse makes the stigma even more pronounced. I find myself worrying about the possibility of ever being in another relationship with anyone who has any mental illness, especially bipolar disorder. I know this is not right for me to feel this way, and I hope I can work through my feelings about it, because I mean no disrespect to anyone with bipolar or any mental illness. I dont blame my ex wife for having the disorder and I dont blame anyone else for their mental illness either. The times when I do blame is when someone is mentally ill, has had a long history of erratic behavior that has hurt those around them even loved ones, and still blames their vitims for their own behavior rather than accept their illness and seek help for it. Thats how my ex wife was, she blames every one else for her hurtful behavior and would actually get irritated whenever anyone she hurt would get upset over being hurt by her. I blame those who are ill and who stay in denial and refuse help, when their illness and behaviors are systematically hurting everyone around them.
Thank you for y our response bwolf. I can relate fully to what your are talking about, and it's ben suggested to me that if I am going to be pulled down with him, leaving is the only sensible thing to do.
We are both trying to find ways to get through it, but I do find that now that the condition has been diagnosed and defined, and he is developing some metatcognition about it that he will share with me, it helps.
I like your simile about the ticking time bomb. It hit the nail on the head.
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no easy answers, no right or wrong ones and yet... you open a potential volatile discussion and in doing so will no doubt pit those of us with the disorder - once again - against those who do not have the disorder and the perceptions each side has as to what is one's responsibility and how each one likely fails at being responsible
i do not share with my coworkers that fact that I have Bipolar, nor Seizures. I've had too much flack in the past for other issues and a horrific event the one time I did disclose the Bipolar. The "other issues" and the one "horrific event" all led to me not being any longer employed through no fault of my own and some very distasteful comments made by folks who truly did not understand. So, in that I am about to embark on yet another journey of employment, after having been unemployed for so very long... I will again, not disclose.
I would not expect bosses to bend over backwards, make overt allowances, or treat me any differently than anyone else. I wouldn't. Yet, I know several with Bipolar and other mental illnesses - who work - who expect and demand differential treatment based on the fact that they have a illness. I have also seen the consequences of that, as well.
As far as friends and family: they know. The friends who I told, are no longer my friends. Not because I no longer wanted them but because they disappeared likened in the sudden stillness of night. They simply no longer answered the phone, no longer had time to meet for lunch, no longer...
I no longer disclose to potential friends.
Family? Well... family is family. They comment incessantly about all my faults. They berate me continually about what I'm not doing well enough at and when I go into a episode of extreme depression - for they love my mania - they too, simply disappear or roll their eyes and say "you suck the living life out of everyone when you are like this."
So... I no longer involve nor include them.. I do not tell them, I do not bother. They know, there is no need for me to explain. There is no need for me to ask for help, they will not and so I don't. They are... family, my family.
I am alone in this, as I've been since I was wee little, and as I'll likely remain till I'm dead. Alone.
I am responsible for myself, my illness, and what transpires out of the illness's manifestations. I am solely responsible for the management of my illness. No one else is my caregiver nor do I make them one. Even if I wanted or needed a caregiver, I have no one willing to be one.
I make amends where they are possible, I apologize to those for whom I've offended. If they do not accept... I still apologize and move on. It's not up to me to ensure they accept, only to apologize sincerely. I then try, hard as I might, not to do it again and yet if I do... I do it all over again and again - sincerely.
I am, if anything, very responsible... too responsible for my own good most times. I'll even, at times, accept responsibility for something I had no responsibility for or part of.. just to keep the ever loving peace.
Hi, Tabby. I very much appreciate your contributions to all the discussions on BipolarConnect. I like to step aside on the comments here so we can benefit from you and other readers, without my meddling. But I wish to clarify one important point here:
I have no wish to pit patients against family members. I suspect most of us come from families where we are not the only ones with a mental illness. Certainly, that is the case with me. Mental illness runs through successive generations of my family. Last week, a family member of mine was hospitalized and is by no means out of the woods. Also, I have been in loving relationships with individuals with mental illness.
So - as well as being a patient, I have been and still am a family member. I've witnessed first-hand from both sides of the equation how mental illness wrecks lives and devastates families and relationships. I have experienced the frustrations and humiliations and hardships as both a patient and a family member. Trust me, we're all in this together. There is no separation.
Yes, patients and family members (or loved ones) bring different perspectives to the conversation, which is why I encourage all parties to share their perceptions in the same forum. We have a lot to learn from each other. Often, we need to go to our own separate tables to talk amongst ourselves, but ultimately we all need to gather around the same table and listen to each other.
But this doesn't mean we have to hold back. We need to hear each others' stories. It's the only way we learn and move ahead. You are a vital part of this.
To readers: Your contributions are invaluable, and offer one of the best resources for others to gain insight into their illness and to manage it. Please do not hesitate to join the discussions here and throughout BipolarConnect.
You want to know the perception.... spend some time reading this very website, all of it. You'll get a fairly clear idea of how many many folks without the disorder or any mental illness for that matter - perceive the responsibility or primarily the lack thereof amongst those with Bipolar.
By the way... I too, am a family member of one with untreated/unmedicated Bipolar, another with Major Depression recurring, one with PTSD and GAD, and 2 alcoholics. I seriously get being one watching, living, and trying to survive while with one who has a MI.
I also have family that has mental illness, I am bipolar.
Because mental illness is so prevalent on both sides of the family,
the family unit has become scattered, and emotionally impotent at
times. Sometimes, theres not a whole lot of support to be had. Its not that my family
doesn't care, they are simply weakned with mental illness, just like me.
But if we as a family were able to sit down and talk about this thing,
it would help so much. I also think that anytime an opportunity for people to sit
down and discuss any subject presents itself, that its beneficial. At the
very least, everyone understands where each other is comming from...its a win, win.
tryingtoo
I was very moved by your honesty and admire your courage in restarting your career. I wish you all the best in your endeavors. Ironically, I felt less alone by reading your true feelings about being alone. I'm unable to push through my rapidly-changing, inconsistent moods to dare get a job. (Fortunately, I have a family that 'supports' me.) I did have a few jobs, but I could only fake being normal for only so long and then I had to disappear and hide. Friendship-wise, I truly believe I'm incapable of maintaining true personal friendships, so I am as nice as I can be to my grown chldren's friends who frequently come over. (That's a victory for me that I've made my home into a comfortable, peaceful place where my family feels free to bring their friends! It took a lot of therapy and work, but it's my victory.) Thank you for sharing. I'm rooting for you to have many satisfactorily-coping days at work. You and I will know the tremendous victory that will be yours at the completion of each of those days. Thank you. It will be all right in the end, if it's not all right, then it's not the end.