Hello everyone,
You may have seen my posts before. My 32 yr. old daughter is bipolar and has been manic for seven months now. Her mania has been characterized by anger, irritability, self-righteousness, and reckless behaviors, such as drug abuse, sexual promiscuity, and spending more money they she has. She went off her meds, lost all her friends, her job, and her roommate. Her only friend left is someone who is a bipolar cocaine abuser. I had my daughter hospitalized last Friday because she was screaming and crying uncontrollably and afraid she might jump out her window.
Now she's in the hospital. She is still exhibiting faulty thinking, pressured speech, self-righteous anger--she is making a case against the hospital employees because her rights are being denied. She wants to get out of the hospital and insists she is well enough to go home. At the same time, she's still refusing some meds, not all, and yesterday explained a scheme to me to get money by writing bad checks to live off of until her disability kicks in, if I won't give her money, which I don't have but she refuses to accept that. She tells me I should sell something.
My question is, how do you talk to a person during a manic episode like this? She cuts me off if i disagree with her, but I feel like I'm condoning her faulty thinking when I don't speak up. I have had some flare ups with her already--I recently reported here that she was not speaking to me. I try to be careful and I am sensitive to her illness--too sensitive according to my husband who is more of a "tough love" kind of person and does not understand this illness at all. Does anyone have any recommendations on what approach to take with her?
Another question is, do these medications actually work on mania? My daughter was the picture of responsibility and discipline before this illness. I have never seen her like this before. I'm very afraid.
Best regards to everyone,
DaisyMom
5 Rules for Bipolar Relationships 
5 Things to Keep in Mind in Bipolar Sexual Relationships 
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How much do you know about bipolar disorder? 
The better question is… how do I communicate anything to anyone that is high or drunk? You can’t because they won’t remember for one and the drug addictions makes them into a totally different person with different personalities. The drug is all they crave and it does the talking such as sell something to get me more money to buy more drugs.
The bipolarism is actually secondary as to which issues to address. So what you’re left with is someone that is going through drug withdrawals (hospital setting is the best place to have this done…good job mom) and they will say or do anything to get out and back to the drug.
If you were just dealing with a manic high which in itself is bad enough, I would have been recommending straight up honesty even when hard to answer questions are brought up. Was your daughter diagnosed bipolar prior to the drug addiction? You say your daughter was picture perfect prior to the illness…if she were in fact bipolar it has been with her from the get go.
The majority of people that are drug addicts aren’t bipolar. The addiction to drugs holds no boundaries on age, sex, social standings or race…no one is immune to it. My best advice is to get her treated for her drug addictions and after she is clean and sober for awhile see how she is then.
If your even second guessing of whether you should have placed her in the hospital… stop it right now…you did a wonderful thing for your daughter in keeping her safe and out of harms way even if she doesn’t feel that way right now, at least she is alive!
Thanks for your support, Eric. The hospital is releasing her today. Too soon in my opinion, she's still exhibiting symptoms of mania, but they weened her off her xanax addiction, had no access to cocaine or pot and she now remembers that the hospital is an awful place to be. Hopefully, this will translate into behavior that doesn't lead to the hospital. In NYC, all you have to do is pick up the phone to get a drug delivery. Unfortunately, an undesireable acquaintance whom my daughter met in the hospital 8 years ago and who was out of her life for the last 3 years, is now back in her life. This young woman is a drug abuser, alcoholic, and also bipolar. I hope, with all my heart, that my daughter resists that relationship and closes that door. We'll see.
The hospital set my daughter up in an outpatient program. She has the tools to improve her life, I hope she uses them.
Thank you for your thoughts. I have to go get her at the hospital!
--DaisyMom
Although it very well could just be a drug addiction, I don't think a mother would throw around the term bipolar very lightly.
Yes, it is nearly impossible to communicate with someone drunk or high, but it is also hard to communicate with someone who is bipolar.
Even if the bipolar symptoms have just been recent, that doesn't mean she may not be bipolar. MANY bp victims go through decades without any bipolar symptoms. This is usually until something traumatic happens, such as moving a far distance away or a close person's death.
Drugs and alcohol ARE a big issue, but I want to be sure the bipolar isn't overlooked. There is a good chance the bipolar is causing the drug abuse and if you're only fixing that.. well, you're not getting to the root of the problem. Don't push it away. Talk to a professional.
My ex-boyfriend was diagnosed as bi-polar two years ago. He has been in and out of the hospital three times now and even ended up in jail once. He is now at the point of losing everything he worked so hard for over the past ten years. He still has not come to the realization that he needs to be medicated and go to therapy to enjoy a normal life. I ran out of ways to try to help him last Fall and moved out of his home, so my children and I could try to live a normal life. i do still worry about him but unless he decides to get help there is nothing I can do. I hope your daughter realizes how serious it can end up if she doesn't take the right medication.
The drugs and alcohol have nothing to do with the disease. They are seperate. My mother has had bipolar mania all her life. Sometimes she drank alcohol here and there. But, the disease always was there. Medication is the only solution. Unfortunately, manic bipolars like the feeling of the mania they experience. My mother is very good about taking all her meds now to keep her family together. This disease is becoming more obvious in our society now.
The drugs and alcohol have nothing to do with the disease. They are seperate. My mother has had bipolar mania all her life. Sometimes she drank alcohol here and there. But, the disease always was there. Medication is the only solution. Unfortunately, manic bipolars like the feeling of the mania they experience. My mother is very good about taking all her meds now to keep her family together. This disease is becoming more obvious in our society now.
PUT HER INTO A TREATMENT PROGRAM! A freaking detox isn't going to stop her from doing Xanax! You also need to start going to Alanon or Naranon meetings so you understand more about having a Drug Addict in the family! I was once addicted to Oxycontin for about 7 years, recovery was the HARDEST thing to do - but I can tell you right now, when I finally held no more reservations for the drug and I Wanted recovery bad enough, I had no problem.
Your daughter needs help. Might I Suggest a Treatment Program that offers "dual-diagnosis" - they'll clean her up and after some time if she is still acting manic, they'll treat her for the bipolar as well.
btw - I was diagnosed as bipolar in the first treatment that I went into - I wasn't, it was the effect that years of drug abuse had upon me.
Are you bipolar, sir? Because if you're not, you shouldn't try to help.
I am, and I'm stable now. I struggled with substance abuse, but have no issue with it now (with no help from AA, thank you very much). AA and NA didn't help me because for me my MENTAL ILLNESS WAS IN FACT THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE. Maybe for some people its not. But for me and many other bipolar people I know, susbstance abuse is just our way of trying to medicate our illness that is going untreated or unsuccessfully treated. Once healthy, and having realized substance abuse will always make us unhealthy, we will stop using (unless maybe the person is a herion addict who is physically addicted). Of course everyone is different.
If you don't get your daughter help to understand her illness and how she can prevent mood swings all on her own (supplemented by medication) then she will always go back to drugs and alcohol (unless she takes the program (aa) really seriously, in which case you will have a sober but insane daughter forever).
Remember, hospitals do not educate your daughter. They slap a diagnoses on her and send her on her way. Psychiatrists also tend to be very useless other than precribing meds. A counselor as well should help.
Maintain a healthy diet, exercise,
I suggest the books Take Charge of Bipolar Disorder and Loving Someone With Bipolar Disorder.
My daughter is 27 and has a learning disability and she is out of control. She has 3 kids and 2 of them are with some other family, her eldest daughter who is 5 lives with us, but my mother and I are her primary care. She is verbally abusive to the family I dont believe her when she says she will try. Then Blam another episode of her manic swings. She has been diagnosed by two professionals she's bi-polar and prescribed Abilify and she wont take it. She feels it makes her tired, she only tried it twice, doctors say take it to get it even in her system and her body will get use to it. Just excuses of denile, and it effects everyone. Can professionals come in and hospitalize her for doing this behavior if there is nothing we can do or have tried everything. She is promiscuise and parties and over spends money. Tells me what to do and her 5 yr old is picking up similar verbage.
The drugs and alcohol have everything to do with it. I am a mental health professional, and I commonly see people diagnosed with Bipolar, when the real issue is drugs, other addiction (sex, gambling), ptsd or a combination of depression and anxiety (which can sometimes look like Bipolar). Let's not forget that people with certain medical problems can look like they have Bipolar. Our society throws around the term Bipolar without really having a good idea what that means. Bipolar is a strongly genetic illness that, on average starts in young adults. If no one else in the family has serious problems with mood, it's probably not Bipolar.
My wife has exhibited highs and lows since Ive known her. We retired last year and got hooked on the 3P.M. wine time thing. We both drank wine and two weeks ago it got out of hand. We had words and I said some suff I should not have. We seemed to work it out for about 10 days until we went to church and she turned inward. Refuses to talk to me and if she does she yells and calls me names. Anyway her mother had mental issues as well and was in an institute.
In the past weve have had issues and I tried to talk to her about the bipolar topic. Needless to say that was not a good time...she refuses to consider anyting like it. She has had brain surgery during her adult life with first husband and now she is on a weight watchers diet program.. I am wondering if the cut back in foods cold bring back biopolar dysfunction? This is a trip.
Unfortunately she has to want to do it. My mom is an average, sweet little lady when her illness isnt out of control. She had a few episodes with the police and is a registered 5150. If she has 1 more strike she does prison time. This means no freedom to go to Starbucks, go to lunchwith me, watch a movie with her grandkids, watch a sunset on the beach, etc. My whole family had to sit her down and make her realize what she had to lose. And that the side effects of the medication were nothing compared to losing her family and freedom. She has been balanced on her meds for a few years now. But, the disease will always be there. I guess its coming to terms with having a disease and realizing that without treatment you will lose your life. Bipolar is a long road to figuring out how to live with it and manage it. But they can't do it alone. Just show you care, and that the disease is ok when treated. My heart goes out to you and her 5 year old. I toke on traits of my mother when reacting to certian cituations. The best thing you can do is be an example, and tell the child that mommy has a disease that makes her over react. Tell the child that she/he does not have the disease so she/he can be calm when trouble comes.... You will be an expert when all this sorts out. Be strong
I respectfully disagree on one issue Eric, though appreciate where you are coming from. My partner has a very unstabloe bipolar disorder and I have been with him for 10 years. I have nearly 25 years nursing experience so am not a lay person to this, and have also worked with community drug and alcohol teams too and extensively in rehab. He does not have drug addiction. his only interest in substance abuse comes after he has already gone manic. This is a very common pattern.
This point is often misunderstood with Bipolar. It sounds the same in this lady's daughter's case. It is extremeley common for people with Bipolar to substance misuse, sometimes to manage their symptoms, but research shows that more often than not, substances are used as yet another completely out of character behaviour which only crops up during the manic and hypomanic phases for many people with Bipolar when their judegement is lost about healthy decisions. There is of course, always the potential to develop a dual diagnosis with repeated use of drugs, or alcohol, but more often than not it is sporadic use as part of a pattern of manic behaviour in the same way that people often drink more alcohol after going high, not beforehand to make themselves high though some have done this when depressed . Their boundaries and limits go out of the window in a manic episode.
What this young lady needs is treatment for her mania initially, and hospital is the right place for her if she has reached a severe state of mania . Sometime this can be managed in the community. Once stabilized it will be possible to have a rational discussion with her about her drug use and she may in fact have no interest in drugs. It will be clear if she is withdrawing as the symptoms are quite different and she will crave to use drugs. It sounds from the description as if she is the grips of a manic episode primarily. The drug use is secondary. Mania can take many months indeed before it dissipates or is fully settled with or without adequate stabilization, and then is usually replaced by moderate to severe depression following a manic episode . She will not be using drugs in hospital so if she has withdrawals it will be apparent but she may have not used in an addictive way just sporadically, and of course that will have aggravated and triggered manic symptoms further, but I would suspect the mania came first. This is very typical.
My partner goes manic first then starts to go up to London and all over the place and will not think twice about taking a drug then. However he behaves exactly like this when manic with no drug use whatsoever. The same chemical processes are going on in the bipolar brain chemistry as if they were using stimulants ,just like Cocaine but without the presence of the drug in the body or brain.Dopamine is firing on all cylinders . Taking Stimulants would be a double doseof dopamine triggers. Personally, I feel the behaviour described above described is typically manic and the primary problem which needs addressing first. Bipolar is a very complicated illness but there are good treatments available but it takes perseverance to find the right balance of medications in adequate dosages and combinations, usually more than one needed, and perseverance with the mental health teams to monitor and treat adequately. The first steps have been taken which is a positive start in this lady's daughter's recovery. I wish them well.
While I agree that bipolar symptoms could just caused from drug addictions, I speak from my own personal experience as a perviously undiagnosed bipolar drug addict.
For decades, my loved-ones and myself took the route of treating the addiction first, and that my moods and lifestyle would just naturally follow into a normal state. This was the WORST mistake, as taking away my weed would throw me into mania, and keeping me from powder caused me to literally fly around the country looking for something I would never find.
Enter my 6th and final psyche clinic that approached things differently. After only 2 sessions, I was diagnosed BP-1 and prescribed lithium, and without any "addiction treatment", I now have NO cravings for other substances.
Maybe if we stop blaming street drugs and treat them more as a symptom for a psychiatric issue, "drug addicts" wouldn't be so difficult to "reform".
i have bipolar. the symtoms of mania are themselves an addiction even if you dont have drug addiction at all. they can make it so hard to want to be stable that a person with bipolar becomes medication resistant. unfortunely over diagnosis disables people and those addicts that can get well and wont suffer mood swings after not living in the ilness of addiction the doctors give them a mentally freeing and clean slate of "misdiagnosed" instead of acknowledgin bipolar can be treated even after acute episodes even with people disabled by it and they can live healthy happy satisying lives. unfortunately i cant be told i am misdiagnosed or i lose the donctor i cant afford and the nurse he supervises when the best work i can do is cleaning as a real maid not a fantasy one, and i am reduced to rely on my art skills for achievement that i am predisposed to need when if i could have health care that covers my psychiatric care I WOULD HAVE A CHANCE TO GET OFF DISABILITY AND LIVE STABLE UNADDICTED TO MY BODY ChEMISTRY ANYMORE, BUT GIVE ME A JOB AND NO MEDICAL SUPERVISION I CAN AFFORD EVEN IF I FAIL AND I HAVE NO WAY TO LIVE THE LIFE I CAN SICK OR NOT AND HAVE THE DREAMS THAT ARE WORTH HAVING. SO I DREAM INSTEAD OF WHAT YOU ALL CALL WRONG THINKING ITS ALL I GOT TO KEEP ME FROM LOSING THE MIND I STILL GOT IN A LIFE SO MUNDANE I HAVE NO ONE TO TALK ABOUT IT UNLESS THEY ARE LIVING UNDER THE POVERTY LEVEL LIKE ME AND HAVE GOOD SELF ESTEEM. Pshychiatry is a baby science younger than astophsics and ever one say they have the answer and Know nothing!!! call that hypo mania i'm not afraid of it you are, get some real faith get jesus christ then knock at my door about helpin me. with faith and real counsel not a stupid woman i saw twice and said to me a woman who got raped do this or you cant have counseling from me told me i was unsafe when i was not!!!! tell it to the rain. i'm just human with a oxymoron for a diagnosis and its harmless til someone makes it more or less than it is GROW UP!!! ha
IGOTIT,
Wow, you sound so much like my daughter. I would like to believe that you do have people you can talk to but maybe you dont realize it. Or more likely you dont want to talk to the people who most want to understand you.
I dont understand my daughter and therefore she does not want to talk to me, no matter how many books I read or how many "doctors" I talk to I simply will never understand her because I do not think nor am I capable of thinkling like her.
Maybe you could help us. What would make a difference to you? If a caring member of your family listened, what could they say that would change anything, that would make even the smallest difference?
What do you say to your daughter? I wish some one out here had answered your question. I can't because I am in the same situation and after almost 6 years of saying the wrong things (things that did nothing to help my daughter make any choices that would influence her life positively). Saying "I love you", "I am here for you when you are ready to accept life changing help", "you always have a home",...etc.... do no good for someone who does not want to change their life or accept the kind of help you want to give.
I tend to see that these children (even if they are adults they are our children) are sick but unwilling to accept the help they need. Is that different than choosing not to accept chemo if you have cancer? If it isn't then we have to say that these we love are not capable of making decisions for themselves. At that point the only option is to have them diagnosed as clinically "insane". Well, good luck with that. My daughter is as sane as she needs to be when the occasion arises.
Well, after saying that, right or wrong, I have chosen to let her live her life. She may die tonight but it is her choices that will make that happen. She knows 100% that she is loved whether she wants to be or not. She knows that her family will help her on our conditions not hers if she really wants help. She knows that she is bipolar and is almost incapable of living a productive life without medication and medical supervision. She is currently a stripper and posts pictures for the world to see of her job her drinking and her drugs. She is one arrest away from going to prision for many years. None of that matters to her, she simply chooses to live her life each day exactly as she pleases with no regard to her family.
I feel sorry for her and for you and for all of the people who are dealing with someone like this. All I can say is, get on with your life - if thine eye offend thee.. pluck it out!
I don't really have an answer. As I type, my boyfriend is the in the hospital after a "manic" episode last night, and I have never dealt with hospitals before, though I have been around him being manic.
But, I want to offer one perspective noone else seems to be bringing in. That is, what is the perspective and feelings of the person who's bipolar or hospitalized or forced to be on drugs. It seems mania is an alluring and often desireable state. This, I think, is honestly understandable. What does your daughter want out of her life? Does she want a stable life on society's terms? I think for some people, stability is more oppressive and unmanageable than the drugs. But, then there's the resprecussion: society will come in at some point and cart the person away for being weird/out-of-control or even harmful. It's a dilemna. But, I'm thinking lately that a lot of this misunderstaning can be healed by developing a sincere respect for my boyfriend/your daughter/etc, etc. Remember, the goal is happiness, right? What does she want to be happy? Ask, at least. Yeah... she might be wrong sometimes.... e.g. a manic person needs to SLEEP even when they don't want to, an drugs might be needed.
So, all that musing. But, like I said, respect. Maybe not an ultimatum about her making life changes? Maybe ask what changes she thinks are necessary and wants, at least when she's more lucid. The hospital is there doing it's thing, whether you are backing it up or not. It doesn't seem like she's going to really value your view on that no matter how much you say it, so maybe just be "on her side" (because of course you ARE... you're her mother :-) )
Like I said, I don't know. I am new to this, and yes it is %$^%&$^@ difficult to deal with someone who is manic and will not back down. Or at least has been for me. But I just wanted to bring up this alternative way of looking at the situation. Also, do we need the term "illness" or "disease" ...? Even without those words you can still talk about practical problems that arise for someone becuase of their moods (we all have some problems). Even without those words, you can talk about ways to make things better, happier, healthier for the individual and their family.
An interesting read from the viewpoint of bipolar authors: http://theicarusproject.net/files/navigating_the_space.pdf
they generally think hospitals are miserable, but acknowledge that they do some good too. not saying you need to buy all the stuff, and the non-mainstream politics. but it is a good, non-demeaning, non-pathologizing window into 2 individuals' experiences with being bipolar.
i am 22 years old and was diagnosed bipolar at the age of seven, do not ask me how they came to that conclusion. Since i was seven i have been in and out of psychiatric hospitals fourteen times (thanks to parents) there was a time that i did not get very much sleep and begged my psychatris to perscribe a sleep medication. He denied that request, which drove my parents crazy and later on me as well, so i was already on seraquel 200mg, the sleeping part of the med helped me sleep till they took me off it. I missed a lot of school because after couple weeks without very much rest and the seraquel i felt as if i was on a cloud and even told my teacher who called my parents which resulted in me getting sent home. I decided to take my left over meds of seraquel which mom told me to flush down the toilet which i did not. Decided to take over 1000mg over the course of two day hopeing to get an effect which i did not which is probably why i think they took me off it, in the first place, that was not the drug causing bipolar, that was me being bipolar taking a medicine that i had taken for years, trying to get some sleep by depending on that drug. and nobody in my family is bipolar, so how did i get that at age seven and even develope schizopherneia at the age nine. with all said i am currentlly atending the University of West Georgia majoring in speech pathology on a combination of meds which are affective, so is it the drug causing my episodes or just me.
thank you... we are dealing with a similar scenario for the last few years. my 20 yr old daughter is either the devil or the angel rotating ona two wee basis. Our home and welfare is threatened by her risk taking.. she has stopped drugs for the time being...now she shopliftsa!...we are bludgeoned with verbal abuse when confronting her...i am going numb as a mom....it feels like it is going to be my life or hers....
I am also bipolar, I absolutely think the two, Bipolar and addiction have everything to do with each other! Here's why...
I started experiencing bi-polar symptoms at a very young age (10 yrs old), I am 39 now. I have lived with this disease almost my entire life. So for me, The bi-polar came first, then as I got into teenager years I started "escaping" those symptoms with Alcohol and Drugs. Back then, bi-polar wasnt as "popular" as it is today and it was seldom anyone ever got a bipolar diagnosis. I was Diagonosed at the age of 20.
I would take the meds for a while then stop, because I didnt feel I needed them (as a lot of bi-polar patients do), only to have a severe Manic or mostly depressive episode within a month of stopping the medications. So then the drugs and Alcohol would come into play again, and the viscous cycle began.
So, for me, the bi-polar symptoms themselves led to my alcohol and drug use, then the Alcohol and drug use led to more Bi-polar episodes.
I just recently have sought professional help again, I am back on my medication, I take Lithuim and Wellbutrin. But I have also taken Depakote (weight gain med), Tegratol, Lamicital, Celexa, Zoloft, and Im sure a few more in between. The lithuim and wellbutrin combo seem to be working well for me. I am once again clean and sober (also without the help of NA or AA.), and my mood swings and depression have got extremely better. Yes I still have bad days, still get angry, and dont always express it the right way, but Im trying. I also have God in my life, I have to keep the faith. I don't believe hes carried me this far to drop me.
I hope your daughter gets the help she needs, I can relate with everything you said on so many levels. Just always love her, remember it is a sickness with no cure, only treatment.
It is pheominal that it gets to this point. My vivacious 23 year old daughter has all but died and and I am left with this broken person who abuses me and my home. I have been grieving her for years now, all the while she is still living with me in my home. She is the elephant in the room and she is snarling. I am in therapy myself because I am a battered spouse, (Mother) I have forgotten how to live with the constant threat of war. I have enabled her to be this evil person and don't have the where with all to change my situation on my own. She has stolen everything that has value and left the empty packages in plain sight to add to the devistation. She actually waits for me to leave to live outside of her room, leaving every room in a complete mess with out regard. I am at my wits end... I want to ask her to leave but now she is in trouble with the law again and is charged with 2 felonies. I wouldn't have bailed her out but my nephew did and he is on the hook for 2500.00 in bond. I don't know which way to jump if I kicked her out she would be on the street and she doesn't have any life skills. I would like to think she is smart but don't really believe that at this point since she has never really had a job or even attended college. I want someone to tell me thaat kicking oyut their loved one was the one good thing they did for them. I am not a real belierver in tough love and am a follower of Christ knowing He can cause ALL things to work together for good, but she has to want help!