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Lithium Update

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G.J. Gregory

G.J. Gregory

Wed, November 21, 2007

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About two weeks ago my pdoc suggested Lithium to supplement my Lamictal. He thought it would do a good job of handling the rest of my symptoms. He’s suggested Lithium several times in the past, and I’ve turned him down every time. After what I’ve been through the last several months I was ready for some additional relief, so I was receptive this time. I told him of my concerns with Lithium: weight gain, potential kidney and thyroid damage, trembling hands, and the need for regular blood tests to monitor levels. He called the cocktail “Lamithium”, explaining that there is a synergistic effect between Lithium and Lamictal, and that a full dosage is usually not necessary to achieve some benefit in this scenario. He promised we’d monitor the signs to avoid potential problems and side effects. I reluctantly agreed.

Let’s take a moment here to stress that it is critical that you take an active role in your treatment. Ask questions, express your concerns, don’t be afraid to say no to a particular treatment option. Do your research, and arrive for your appointments informed and assertive. The best way to avoid being a victim is to be proactive. But back to the story…

What I find fascinating about Lithium is, in my experience, how few people are critical of the drug. Mention any other drug and you’ve got maybe a 50-50 chance of a positive answer. Bring up Lithium, I've found that 90% of people have positive things to say about it. I find that amazing, and quite hopeful.

I’ve been on Lithium for two weeks now, but I’m not sure I’ll continue. I’ll give it a month and then see how it is. I am very “hyper” and agitated. I’m sleeping very little, and have significant hypomanic symptoms. Now, these symptoms existed prior to beginning Lithium, and perhaps I’d have them anyway. But it seems like I’m MUCH more agitated since beginning this med. I’ve been criticized by some who say “either take a larger dose or don’t take it at all”, and maybe that would reverse the agitation that started when I began the drug. But I’m hoping for that synergistic effect promised by the doc, and hoping to avoid the slight potential for long-term medical issues and get by with less than a typical therapeutic dosage.

Perhaps the agitation I’m feeling is not med related. In the past I had this same thing happen with Risperdal. In fact, it was the same time of year. Every fall I’m looking for a way to temper my moods, and maybe the symptoms are so significant that I’d experience this no matter what. The only way I’ll know is to ride this out a little longer, to a time when past year’s mood charts show my hypomania has typically disappeared. Then I can have an idea of how this is really affecting me. But it does seem like both medications caused an escalation of my symptoms.

I really hope this medication works out. There are so many drugs out there with a tranquilizing effect, and I just can’t bring myself to dull my senses any more. Seroquel, for all the amazing things it has done for me, is not a drug I want to take every day. I’ve done it in the past and work was difficult. If I wasn’t working I wouldn’t hesitate, but I’d rather not right now.
11/26/07 8:31pm

Dear GJ,

 

I took lithium way back in 1979 and continued until a doctor suggested, in 2001, neurontin to cover pain as well as my bipolar 1.  By that time my thyroid was destroyed (I take synthroid to replace it).  The only thing that really bothered me was tremor. I found it a little embarrassing.

 

It wasn't until I read Dr. Kay Redford Jamison's autobiography that I realized that the prophylactic dose of lithium had muffled my awareness of the fine things in life, as it had for her.  It was as if a lid was firmly holding me down.  As a bipolar 1, I did not take it kindly.

 

 I became unable to read a novel, I who, as an English major, had read two novels a week for my American and English novel courses. I could read a magazine article or a short story, but it seemed my reading days were essentially over, especially after my lithium toxicity experience.

 

After a couple of years on neurontin my reading capacity returned with a vengeance----I can't get enough.  But the writing skills, which were good enough to get the nod from a department head at the Los Angeles Times in the '70's, have died.  All I can do is write short letters or journal entries.

 

BUT!  I never had another bipolar break.  I raised my two boys alone and they are FINE!

 

  Life is sometimes a trade-off and nobody can judge for  us what is right and good in an individual situation.  We can only "trust our gut" and assess our knowledge of ourselves, our psychiatrist and sprinkle in the spice of what we learn from the experience of others..   My favorite "spice" is Jamison, because she struggled so against lithium, until she made her "deal with the devil."  She ought to be required reading right along with John McManamy.

 

Best of luck!

 

11/26/07 11:57pm

Mary - I love your quote: 

 

"Life is sometimes a trade-off and nobody can judge for  us what is right and good in an individual situation.  We can only "trust our gut" and assess our knowledge of ourselves, our psychiatrist and sprinkle in the spice of what we learn from the experience of others."

 

I agree, there are definite trade-offs, and what's right for me isn't necessarily what's right for you or someone else.  I'm terrified about long-term use of Lithium, or any medication.  Then I realize that sacrificing the happiness of my family and my current stability overrides most of my future concerns.  We'll see what tomorrow brings tomorrow.

 

Thanks for a great comment. 

11/27/07 1:59pm

My dear GJ!

 

It broke this old lady's heart to hear you say you are "terrified about long term use of Lithium, or any medication."  GJ, the terrifying thing has already happened to you (bipolar) and you are dealing with it big time!!

 

  Peter's remark about the worst of our illness being the "black horror of living death" is pithy. That is precisely what turned me deep into my faith in

God, which, in turn, has taught my soul not to fear.

When I am afraid--- and we all are sometimes---I pray as the hymn says:  "Be NOT afraid, I go before you..."

 

I think you are one courageous, giving human being...no matter what drug you're on!!

 

 

4/10/10 12:32pm

I am on lithium and it has been good for me.  I am off of suger, high carbs, leave off the bread 95% of the time, off of rice and potatoes.  I eat a high protein, low carb meal everyday.  I have lost 60lbs since last June.  It makes a  big difference when you take drugs for bipolar.  As far as salt, use a moderate amount otherwise there could be toxiciity.  Always drink 8 glasses of water everyday.  

 

The next thing that will help you, is  regaining your clarity is listening to imusic.  IT IS AWESOME.  Go to www.getimusic.com and read all the testimonies.  There are about 100 of them and everyone is amazed how it enhances your brain power & IQ, improves your short and long term memory, build neural connections, dendrites and more mental hardware, improve your mental stamia and intellectual endurance and much much more.  Please go to the website.  It is wonderful and it has helped me.  I can process information much faster and articulate with ease when I speak to poeple now and when I write there is so much depth and clarity.  Again, please go the website.  You will not regret it one bit.  

11/27/07 8:50am

I take Lithium and Lamictal, as well as Abilify, Diabex and Diamicron. I would like to share my experience with Lithium and Lamictal - along with how I cope, or don't cope, with combining the above medications.

 

I have epilepsy, diabetes, and bipolar type 1: mixed states, rapid cycling, predominantly depressive. I only share this in order to give an adequate perspective on what I say later.

 

In 2003 I began taking Lithium and I began on Lamictal around March of 2006.

 

For most of my life I took Dilantin as the primary drug for  epilepsy, however I struggled with severe symptoms of poor memory and 'foggy' thinking. So we began looking for a  replacement for Dilantin, choosing Lamictal as it is an excellent primary drug for epilepsy.

 

We also chose Lamictal as it is a mood stabiliser. We figured that Lamictal and Lithium would work well together. At least most of the scientific documentation seemed to indicate this to me as well as my psychiatrist.

 

In Australia, Lamictal is not prescribed as a psychiatric medication, so my neurologist and psychiatrist worked together on this project - getting me onto Lamictal in conjunction with the Lithium for epilepsy. In other words my neurologist prescribed Lamictal in consultation with the other doctor.

 

In 1992, when first diagnosed, I trialled Lithium along with Prozac. After around a month I stopped Lithium as I convinced myself that the side effects I thought I was experiencing were too severe. In reality they were predominantly symptoms I would have experienced from the illness anyway. Also the side effects frightened me so much I ran away instead of perservering.

 

Alas, the decision to stop Lithium all those years ago is one I deeply regret.

 

When I reintroduced Lithium into my drug regime, I experienced most of the known side effects and still struggle with weight gain. However there are other reasons for that as well.

 

However the benefits of taking Lithium, for me, far outway its side effects. Even when I simultaneously experience extreme agitation along with soul destroying depression I feel as though I have a safety net underneath me.

 

While enduring what I describe as a 'black horror of living death' when this insidious illness is at its worst - I still have a better quality of life than I otherwise would have. Also, I seem to get to the other side a little quicker, not much but just a little. I have a slightly clearer mind now that I'm on both Lamictal and Lithium.

 

Lithium does have a narrow therapeutic window and I need to monitor it via pathology tests. Yet that has only been a few times a year for me. I did try taking Lithium at a sub therapeutic dose but it did not work for me.

 

Aristotle said, "Those who wish to succeed must first ask the right preliminary questions".

 

The way I manage my drug regime is to ask questions. I ask questions of the available scientific research, and of my doctors. I seek out knowledge in order to ask questions of it. It was me who sent letters to my neurologist and psychiatrist asking questions about Lithium and Lamictal.

 

When you do your own research and collaborate with your doctors it helps you to own the decisions you make about your drugs and life.

 

Hope this helps in some way.

 

Peter.

11/28/07 7:22am

Peter,

 

Thanks for a very enlightening and thoughtful comment.  I find it interesting that you say it gives you a safetly net underneat you.  A few comments down Angie talks about "the Lithium ceiling".  Fascinating that it can work like it does for so many people.

 

You are so right about asking questions of your doctor, and taking an active role in your treatment.  And your quote from Aristotle is wonderful.  I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to use that in the future.

 

Thanks again for reading, and taking the time to leave this comment. 

11/28/07 9:46am

Thank you. I would be glad if Aristotles words could help others as they have me. Best wishes...

 

Peter

11/28/07 8:19pm

As I previously indicated, I would be glad for you to use that quote from Aristotle. However, as it is one of my favorites I will be using it as well.

 

Best wishes,

 

Peter.

11/28/07 11:32pm

Well if I can't have it all to myself, just forget it...   Wink

 

Actually, when I see something like that it's usually forgotten by the next day.   I'm a true "product of the seventies".

 

Thanks for checking back in, and I hope my attempt at humor didn't offend. 

 

 

11/29/07 8:11am

I enjoyed the humour!

thanks

Peter

4/10/10 4:33am

                           Des lithium cause foot pain.? one doctor said that lithium caused my foot pain.? I took lithium for fours years. I take limictal instead now. Is it good  to take lithiun  and limactal together?

 I take lryrica at night time  but it is adictive and it  dones not really help alot. It feels I am walking my nerves on the bottom my feet 24 hours a day an can't find any thing to help the pain to go away. Doctors can't not help me.

  Does lamictal effect your memory alittle.? I worrry alot and have anxiety disorder which I   take 6mg of xanox  a day is that not good.? Lamictal was a  God sent to my live.

  

4/10/10 4:36am

                           Dos lithium cause foot pain.? one doctor said that lithium caused my foot pain.? I took lithium for fours years. I take limictal instead now. Is it good  to take lithiun  and limactal together?

 I take lryrica at night time  but it is adictive and it  dones not really help alot. It feels I am walking my nerves on the bottom my feet 24 hours a day an can't find any thing to help the pain to go away. Doctors can't not help me.

  Does lamictal effect your memory alittle.? I worrry alot and have anxiety disorder which I   take 6mg of xanox  a day is that not good.? Lamictal was a  God sent to my live.

  

11/27/07 2:14pm

I started on lithium over a month ago.  My dosage was 900mg.  I was having side effects of nausea, vomitting, blurry vision and hand tremors.  After a bit these eased off excepted for the stomache upset.  My doc moved me to 1200mg and that was not accepted by my body at all.  I backed down to 900 after talking to him.  I went to see him a few weeks ago where he moved me back up to 1200 split between am & pm.  I was tolerating it during the day but the evening I was still having stomache trouble.  Then all went south.  I felt like I was toxic.  My whole body trembles, nausea, no focus, etc.  I took myself off it completely since this fell over Thanksgiving holiday.  I am still on seroquel but I do not think that I can tolerate Lithium ever again.  I felt awful and that is just not what these medications are supposed to do.

 

Debbie 

11/28/07 7:29am

Debbie,

 

I'm sorry about your bad experience.  It does almost sound like a toxicity issue.   Diet, water, and salt intake are all factors that can impact the way our bodies tolerate lithium.  There was one time a med was really kicking my behind, and I told the pdoc at our next appointment.  He asked me if I'd forgotten how to use the phone.  He was right, they are there for our well-being.  Don't hesitate to call if there's an issue.

 

All the best, and hopefully they get your med regime tweaked in a way that's beneficial for you. 

11/27/07 11:46pm

Is your anxiety about taking any meds, particularly lithium, adding to your perception that you are feeling worse instead of better?

 

Do you feel guilty about your history of recreational drug use, so much so that you may be undermining yourself with less is better/anti-drug approach?  It's like the hippie eating all organic vegan food but still smoking the "pure organic herb" flown in from Mexico.

 

I hate lithium.  I like lithium.  Tremors, GI upsets, headache, grogginess... Yuck!  

 

They go AWAY with time for me.  Unless I get dehydrated.  Or need more salt in my diet.  Weight?  Hate it.  I could blame Seroquel for that and a lot of other stuff, but that's another post.

 

Myself, maybe you, have a low threshold for getting manic.  If you see the list of meds I take on my profile, you'll understand.  I can feel myself going up, up, up until I bump into what I call the lithium ceiling.  I like how lithium can do this.  I have faith that it will work.

 

Lithium is cheap.  Should something ever happen and we're all in the end of days, I'll stockpile it.

 

If your doctor has suggested lithium several times in the past, it's probably a good idea to it a fair shake as you are now.

 

Someone mentioned Kay Redfield's Jamison's memoir "An Unquiet Mind".  I fully endorse reading it, and her other books as well.  I had the opportunity to hear her speak while on a book tour.  Afterward, asked if she could sign one of her older books for me.  It was "Night Falls Fast: Understanding Suicide".  I told her it helped save my life.  And she looked up and made eye contact, a pause, then signed "I'm glad it helped."

 

Lithium was Dr. Jamison's friend and enemy.  Even she, a brilliant mind in the field of psychiatry, and a victim of the disease  took several years to get on graceful terms with it.  I felt in awe of her experiences and knowledge, so to know that she is also human makes me much less alone.

 

Love it or hate it.  It will control bipolar symptoms to some degree or another.

 

I'm still looking for the magic bullit. 

11/28/07 7:44am

Angie - how I love your comments. 

 

You are 100% correct, the addition of a new med always causes anxiety.  I try to remember this, and start slowly.  A month is the bare minimum for a med trial for me, and sometimes longer to get an idea of how I'm going to tolerate it.  

 

I do feel somewhat guilty for recreational drug use, and you're right, I do take an anti-drug approach to almost anything.  I even dislike taking Sudafed or Claritin when the need arises.   That absolutely enters into the frame of mind about trying a new medication.  Although, thinking about that "pure organic herb" is tempting when it comes to handling manic symptoms...

 

Thanks for sharing that experience with Kay Redfield Jamison.  The last year or so reading has become very difficult.  Concentration is very difficult, I struggle to make it through a long passage.  Even looking at someone's long blog post is enough to cause anxiety, and I used to be a voracious reader.  Oh well, this too shall pass with time.

 

Thanks again for sharing your experiences, you are a fascinating person. 

11/28/07 2:01pm

Lithium to me has been a miracle worker. I have taken it for years but be careful that you take a Lithium level blood testevery couple of months. My Dr. forgot about that for several months and I became toxic.  I felt miserable for about 6 months and lost my job because I couldn't concentrate.  At the time I thought I had had a stroke because I had all the symptons.  If you take to much you will become like a zombie. Thanks for sharing.

 

12/ 3/07 8:53pm

Thanks for sharing that Joanna.  How terrible would that be - I'm sorry for what you went through.  Thanks for the reminder about how important it is to stay on top of blood levels.

 

Thanks for reading the taking the time to leave a comment! 

12/ 3/07 7:13pm

I have heard over & over that lithium is still the gold star treatment for Bipolar 1 and Lamictal is apparently the best treatment for Bipolar 2.  So far, I find the Lamictal to be very helpful for my moods & am interested in learning more about Lithium.  My pdoc has said he doesn't mind prescribing it only as an add-on, to hopefully minimize its side effects.  We may be doing this in the near future, so I am very interested in following your progress! 

 

12/ 3/07 8:54pm

Su1 - Lamictal has been good for me, but it's not doing much for my manias.  I'll keep you posted on the Lithium.

 

Thanks for commenting! 

12/ 4/07 4:15pm
  I was Lithium from 1999 till August of this last year it was working fine, till the heat of the summer. When it would get hot in the summers my levels would go up ,not a good thing. One summer it had me in the Hospital with heat stroke and the next summer I was in Hospital again because my levels went crazy. This last August i was at work an had to leave because something was happening with my levels again. The Doctor said it can be because of the heat and working nights. I was fired over this an I was put on a new med.it is called lamtrigine. So far I really like it I have had no hepo problems. And I am sleeping more sounder at night it has not dulled my senses. It has given a new freedom, I am awear of many more things with being on this med.  My dreams are better and I really like not being tired. For years Lithium worked but after a few year it stopped working.  Talk to you doctor about Lamotrigine , my hands are fine and no hempo times. I wish you luck, But also beware of this med.
12/ 4/07 4:47pm

Patrick,

 

Life is hard enough already, then to lose a job because of bipolar medication has to be maddening.  I'm glad things are going better for you.

 

Lamotrigine is the  generic name for Lamictal, which is the other medication I am on.  I'm currently taking a fairly low dose of 200 mg a day.  I agree with you, it is a great medication.  Pdoc talked me into adding Lithium to help cap my top end.  I seem to have a floor to my depressions, but no ceiling to my hypomania and manias.  

 

So Lithium worked for about  8 years for you?  I've heard from several others (but not all) that after 7 to 10 years Lithium seemed to stop working for them.  It seems to be the case with you.

 

Thanks for commenting! 

Anonymous
Jan
12/ 4/07 8:21pm
I took Lithium for 32 years.  I was never able to take it alone - did not work toward sleep or depression.  Weight gain, yes!  After 32 years my kidneys failed to excrete it and I had a build-up of 4X as much as I should have had and had a stroke.  Overing that, I was put on Seroquel 300 mg. daily together with Zoloft 100 mg. daily.  Out of this I also developed low potassium and take med for that.  Three years on this and much better, much happier, much more stable and alive and having weight loss.  There can be life after Lithium!!!!!
Anonymous
SANDRA
2/12/08 10:12pm

I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN BUT MY BRAIN IS FOGGY AND WILLING TO ACCEPT WHAT YOU HAVE SAID WITH NO ABILITY TO CHALLENGE OR ADD TO IT.

I HAVE BEEN ON 300MGS LITHIUM DAILY FOR 2YRS. I AM NOW REALIZING THAT I AM BECOMING LESS AND LESS INVOLVED IN LIFE, ITS AS THOUGH THE BASE LINE NEVER MOOVES UP OR DOWN OTHER THAN QUIET SADNESS.

PEOPLE USED TO SEE ME AS ADVENTUROUS, LIVING A BIT ON THE EDGE........ ALASS I AM  NOW BORING AND JUST GOING FROM DAY TO DAY IN A FOG.

I FEEL ANNOYED THAT I AM BP, I FEEL TRAPPED INN THE CONDITION AND FROM THE AFFECTS OF THE LITHIUM THAT IS HELPING ME...????

MY FAMILY APPRECIATE THAT I AM MILDER, I DO TOO,

 HOWEVER I AM NOT ME, MY BROKEN BRAIN IS BEING CONTROLLED AND THE REST OF ME IS GOING ALONG WITH IT. I AM FINDING I HAVE LESS AND LESS PERSONALITY, I KNOW IT STILL EXCISTS, BUT I AM NOT ABLE TO USE IT.

I THINK I AM DECIDING TO CONFORM BUT YET I THINK I HAVE NO SAY IN THE MATTER. EVERY THING I REALISE I ALSO REALISE THE OPPOSITE, WHICH IS MAKING ME UNABLE TO MAKE DICISSIONS OR TO BE SURE THAT WHAT I CHOOSE AS BEING CORRECT IS CORRECT, IT COULD BE WRONG.........I DONT KNOW.

I DONT TRUST MY OWN THOUGHTS OR FEELINGS.....MAYBE THEY ARENT REALY MINE, MAYBE THEY ARE THE PRODUCT OF THE CHEMICALS IN MY BROKEN BRAIN........ AS THOUGH I WERE A COMPUTER THAT SOMEONE IS TYPING IN THE WORDS. I WONDER HOW CLOSE TO CRAZY DOES THIS GET? I FEEL VERY CONTROLLED AND I DONT LIKE IT, HOWEVER THE ALTERNATIVE IS TO GO BACK TO BEING ANGRY AND OUT OF CONTROLL. IT IS ALMOST AS THOUGH I AM ABLE TO OBSERVE MYSELF STAND OUTSIDE OF MYSELF AND SEE ME

ALMOST OBJECTIVELY. IS THAT POSSIBLE???? OR IS THAT LITHIUM CREATING MY THOUGHTS? HOW CAN I KNOW?  ALSO DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANYTHING HOMEOPATHIC THAT WOULD HELP ME?

THANK YOU,

SAANDRA

4/10/10 12:27pm

I am on lithium and it has been good for me.  I am off of suger, high carbs, leave off the bread 95% of the time, off of rice and potatoes.  I eat a high protein, low carb meal everyday.  I have lost 60lbs since last June.  It makes a  big difference when you take drugs for bipolar.  As far as salt, use a moderate amount otherwise there could be toxiciity.  Always drink 8 glasses of water everyday.  

 

The next thing that will help you regain your clarity is listening to imusic.  IT IS AWESOME.  Go to www.getimusic.com and read all the testimonies.  There are about 100 of them and everyone is amazed how it enhances your brain power & IQ, improves your short and long term memory, build neural connections, dendrites and more mental hardware, improve your mental stamia and intellectual endurance and much much more.  Please go to the website.  It is wonderful and it has helped me.  I can process information much faster and articulate with ease when I speak to poeple now and when I write there is so much depth and clarity.  Again, please go the website.  You will not regret it one bit.  

Anonymous
betty homent
2/25/09 9:53pm

Lithium turned out great for me. My main problem now is my kidneys, and what med do I take next. How dangerous, how much damage? Help? I took lamictal 20yrs ago it worked but I OD on it. With litium no weight gain, I had everything go smooth.

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