Thoughts on Treatment and Recovery from Bipolar Disorder

12/25/07 4:56pm

Hi.Merry Christmas to everyone reading this I certainly didn't think I would be doing this on Christmas Day one year ago,but my life has changed so much in the past year that replying to someone from DBSA is part of my new life. I was diagnosed with bipolar 23 years ago. My story of my first manic episode is on the New website of DBSA (facing off) it is Sue from Oakridge Tn.under personal story videos. I not only have bipolar but am also a victim of childhood sexual abuse. I know there is a big difference between my bipolar illness and whether I am reacting to my childhood abuse. How I know the difference is because I have a Vagus Nerve Stimulator implant. I had it implanted in December 2005. It started working in April 2006. My God what a miracle the black cloud had lifted!!!! Then in August I was reminded of my childhood abuse by a trigger and I was depressed but in a diffrent way. My dr. called it Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I have since had therapy and have forgiven my abuser(he is dead) I never thought I could ever forgive him but what a weight was lifted from my heart when I did. I still am bipolar but thanks to the implant the deep dark depression is gone. I still worry that I might have a manic episode but so far since the implant I haven't. I have a good doctor and I know he will help me if I do have an episode. I could go on and on but I won't I just wanted to say that there is a difference between bipolar illness and childhood abuse. Sue

G.J. Gregory

12/26/07 10:18pm

Sue,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I just read an article on Vagus Nerve Stimulation, they said it can be very effective, but insurance companies don't like to pay for it. If that's the case, it becomes pretty much useless, doesn't it? Too bad.

I hope you continue to read and share your experiences, like so many people here, it sounds like you have stories to tell.

Judy

12/26/07 7:14am

You have touched on many topics - perhaps you can go in depth with a few of them another time.

If I could be "cured" of this illness, I'm not so sure I would want that. My illness is a small part of who I am. The challenges are enormous, but we grow through our difficult obstacles in life.

Yes, every individual's illness is unique, that's why this disorder it's so hard for doctors to treat. Psychiatric doctors have their work cut out for them.

Genetics AND environment "can" play into our diagnosis...there are so many variables.

If you can form a partnership with your doctor, all the better key to getting well and staying well. It works for me. If someone has a doctor that will not work with you, leave and go find one that will.

I believe I have this illness for life, no qualms about it. But I have learned not to fight the illness, but rather to accept it and get to know it well, I'm stuck with it, so I may as well get over it and win some battles. It takes time. And even then, bipolar issues will rear that ugly head now and then. But I can and WILL survive it. Bipolar is not a terminal illness. We are lucky that way.

A farorite poem, by Henry David Thoreau:

If a man does not

keep pace with his companions,

perhaps it is because he hears

a different drummer.

Many of you dance to your own drumbeat, and that can be a very good thing when you are doing well. Count your blessings.

Now I will try to go out there and have "even one good hour" in an extra-ordinary bipolar day.

G.J. Gregory

12/26/07 10:23pm

Judy,

I completely understand what you mean by not wanting to be "cured". The illness is a HUGE part of who I am. But medicated I'm not the same person anyway. I've lost a lot of what was "me", but I've gained in a lot of ways also. The first 40 years were for me, the next 40 are for my loved ones.

I LOVE your quote:

"Now I will try to go out there and have 'even one good hour' in an extra-ordinary bipolar day."

You've nailed it there.

Thanks so much for your comment.

ginger

12/26/07 1:23pm

from what i have learned, and wholly agree with-- and i have been through countless days, weeks and even twice, a month+ in a psych hospital and outpatient-- learning all about this, how to cope and etc... there is no cure.

if one is struggling, medication dependent, needing regular therapy, etc. they absolutely have the chance of improving to the point they can manage life with less and less outside help. it totally depends on the person and their particular situation and how good their self-care is. symptoms will never completely go away, even with all the best outside and self care. unfortunately.

as to being born bipolar or not, i was told by my pdoc that everyone is born with the genes/capacity that may lead to bipolar (or many many other diseases, even cancer.) it is just a matter of nature/nuture, traumatic events or some other trigger being there to "activate" it.

G.J. Gregory

12/26/07 10:30pm

Ginger,

Thanks for your comment. You said:

"...it totally depends on the person and their particular situation and how good their self-care is."

Self care is a huge part of the equation. You can't just put it in the hands of a doctor, there's less risk to them when we're medicated.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

ginger

12/26/07 1:43pm

i have to respond to your comments about medications as well. I agree that the pharm. companies are trying to over-medicate the population. i have been fortunate enough to have responsible doctors in this area. My GP, OB and OB specialist all said to go ask your pdoc, i don't want to be wrong.

my first pdoc treated me as competent. he trusted my judgement when i said i was doing very poorly, but didn't need to be admitted. i was also asked if i agreed with the med changes he was doing.

currently, i am on 4 meds for my bipolar. from 5 yrs ago and for the following 2-3 years, i was on a whole lot more. at one time, i remember taking a total of 16 pills a day. it wasn't 16 medications, but probably around 9 because of the high levels. at that time i felt i truly needed those different types of meds. after a time, as i reduced triggers and improved my self-care, i was able to reduce the number of meds.

i'm not saying i was in no way over-medicated, but i feel that for a while, it was needed for me to get through that hard time (self-injury was a huge concern as well.)

G.J. Gregory

12/26/07 10:33pm

Ginger,

Thanks again. You can't argue with "been there, done that", and you have.

G.J. Gregory

12/26/07 1:58pm

Thanks for these comments. We have some new commenters, and I want to thank everyone for taking the time to share experiences. I'll be personally responding to each comment in the next day or so, but I just wanted to quickly jump in here and say thanks.

How about others? Any input, opinion, or experiences to share? Leave a comment and let us know.

Apprehensive

12/26/07 2:54pm

I was told by my psych that group therapy would not help my bi-polar but it might help me! I don't see the difference. If stress triggers cycles than you need to learn how to react to it. Because everyone has stress. One of those ways is to attend group therapy. I'm not saying it has cured me but it has helped. Hope this helps some people.

G.J. Gregory

12/26/07 10:40pm

Joana,

I agree with you - I don't see the difference. While I am not my disorder, it's effects are forever ingrained in my personality. I also attend support groups, not only for my own personal help, but more for the same reason I love it here: Community. A group of caring individuals who can help each other in different ways. In the end we all receive support, and we all provide support. We're all stronger for the experience.

Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment.

Unamused

12/27/07 1:14am

Thank you for such a wonderful post...you bring up much food for thought. I personally don't believe that people can be "cured" of bipolar disorder and tend very much (given my background in genetics and biomedical research) to follow the paradigm that there is a medical basis for the illness. Having said this however, I do NOT think that everyone responds equally well to (or necessitates) the same treatments. Some people such as myself simply cannot function in society without medication, while others can do fine without them. Who I find disturbing are the people unwilling to acknowledge that the treatment spectrum is as diverse as the manifestations of bipolar disorder: there are med freaks (including not only patients but healthcare providers as well) who think that pharmaceuticals are the only way to go, while there also exist anti-med freaks who feel that no one should be allowed to consider this route. I think I am equally frustrated by both categories. Prudent self-care tailored to the INDIVIDUAL under the guidance of a well-matched doctor (communication is key) is the best way to go.

G.J. Gregory

12/27/07 11:17pm

It's great to hear from you. I realize I could have hopped over to your blog, http://weirdcake.blogspot.com/ but that would have been too easy. Can't have too easy, can we?

Hope things are well in your new locale, I'd sure enjoy a Texas winter after the cold we've had up here. But then I'd have to put up with all you rabid Texas football fans.

Your thoughts and input are great, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience on the topic. At some point I'd like to continue this discussion and have you expand on your statement "there is a medical basis for the illness."

You post also got me thinking about the radical poles when it comes to bipolar treatment. There has to be a pithy phrase about that, but I'm too tired to think of one right now.

Hope the holidays are going well for you.

Just Me

12/27/07 10:09pm

I've said so many things on my blog I'm not going to repeat here, but you hit on one thing I haven't. I strongly think pharmaceuticals should not be advertised directly to consumers unless they are available OTC. Right now I'm staring at 2 enormous ads for Geodon, and Geodon is a med with a number of potentially really serious side effects. But these ads would never let you guess. Besides that, there are nuances that make one drug preferable to another that are not shown in these ads.

I also think there ideally should be some form of limitation on non-psychiatrists prescribing heavy duty psychotropics. I won't let anyone touch mine except the psychiatrist. I had a family doctor flip because I was taking low dose ativan once; he wanted me switched to low dose Seroquel. I don't think he considered that the Seroquel would sedate me too much to work.

Anyway, I've said too much already. (www.masterofirony.blogspot.com)

G.J. Gregory

12/27/07 11:30pm

JM,

Thanks for posting a link to your blog. I would recommend anyone with an interest in this to read more of what Just Me has to say. She has a unique blend of experience and knowledge that are most likely not duplicated anywhere else in the world.

Great point about medication. When I first sought help for depression I went, of course, to my family physician. He'd give me an antidepressant, and after 2 months I'd be so terribly manic I quit taking it - cold turkey of course. This went on once a year for a few years, until I finally got him to acknowledge that even though he KNEW I didn't have bipolar disorder, he'd consider the possibility. He consulted his Palm Pilot, and prescribed 400 mg of Seroquel. For someone used to it, 400 is OK, but not right from the start. I currently take 25 mg as needed for sleep. Well, the next 2 months are gone, a total memory dump. Anyway, long story shorter, it led to a psych referral, and a medication that finally worked. Had I let the pdoc treat me initially, I'd have saved all the time and suffering.

Thanks again for your input JM.

LadyBehindTheMask

11/24/10 11:51pm

Agree: Serious mistake for GPs to be prescribing psych meds. Serious mistake for some P-docs to be prescribing psych meds! We are each so unique that if the doc, of whatever kind, isn't listening and adjusting the Rx to how our body handles the med, we need a new doc.

After many years on intermittent anti-depressants, I recognized I was Type II bipolar, but I was starting with a new P-Doc in a new city and he thought it was wisest to follow the same dx as prior doc -- but with his own twist on the treatment: I should maintain on anti-depressants. Result: within four months, first and only full-blown mania. I don't know today whether he was using the treatment to test my self-dx or was just stupid. Once I was stable enough to think straight, which took a couple years, I changed docs. Getting to a polypharma regimen that actually worked for me took five years longer -- long enough to trash an extremely promising start (fastest ever to reach associate) in a large firm. Not that I hate the job I have now. But I hate how I got there.

Anonymous

12/28/07 2:38am

Hi, it's just me Emma, I also think your born with bipolar, and it manifest itself in different ways at different times in people lives. I think when you've been diagnoised,or at least when my husband was diagnoised, I could look back and see so many things he had done, that were finally explainable. I have learned over the last couple of years that the two most important things we've done was to educate ourselves about bipolar disorder and about the meds. I do think physicians and psyciatrist tend to over medicate, at least my husbands pdoc does. He went to see her last month and told her he had changed some of his meds time and amount and she did't like it at all. We both tried to explain that he shook so bad he couldn't do his job,plus he was self consious of it, which made it worse. I don't think she liked it ,because she acted like we were questioning her. She told him he was headed for a major depression, and added more meds. Actually he's been doing so much better the last couple of months since I switched some of his meds to him taking them at night instead of mornings. Some of the meds do the same thing also. She gave him Xanax for his shaking ,as many as he wanted. This is the list of meds he is suppose to be taking, please tell me what you think. Geodon, Seroquel, Lamictal, Lithium, Zoloft, Ambien and don't forget the Xanax. Do you think he could possibly be over medicated? If she adds something new she never takes away any. We stay with her because we live in a rural area and pdocs are few and far between. I know from researching all these meds, that several of them cause shaking, why does she not know it? I'm the one in this house who has researched bipolar and the medicine and the bipolar husband has finally started listening to me. Bipolar is alot like other illnesses, you educate yourself about it ,and you learn what to watch for everyday ,and if your lucky you can catch yourself before as we say you get really weird(with him it's depression). You have to live life in the best possible way you can with bipolar ,and it's alot easier on everybody, if you kindof know what you're dealing with. I'm sorry for rattling on so . Thank You, Emma.

Just Me

12/28/07 8:40pm

Emma-

This is a good example of why traveling to a good doctor is worthwhile. I drive 2 hours each way once a month to see my psychiatrist and an hour each way weekly (occasionally bi-weekly) for the psychologist. I also live in a very rural area. In fact to my knowledge there is one psychiatrist in this county and he is through community mental health.

I can say that's a lot of meds. But then again, sometimes that is needed. I'm on more than that.

I can say for certain tremors have treatments. Inderal (a blood pressure med) is pretty effective. It can make you a bit tired. But it is not addictive like Xanax, and xanax can certainly cause tiredness too. I'm sure there are other meds for tremors; inderal is just what I've been on.

I think it's also important to have a doctor who works with you. Either she needs to be willing to respond to a call where you are saying "these meds aren't working this way, can we decrease a bit" or she needs to set parameters you can change things in yourself.

I am allowed to alter the doses of a number of my meds myself. Lithium and depakote are level based meds so of course I don't change those. But I have about 35 mg of room I can change my antidepressant in (and if desperate I can take myself off it if I'm manic and think it will help). I control my Provigil dose and my anxiety med dose. I was given parameters over and over from Sept. through Nov. until I hit a Seroquel dose that was right for me. Nearly all of my prescriptions are written with ranges so I can do this. If I were to start acting manic tomorrow I'd be on a higher dose of seroquel by Monday because my parameters are 2 nights of no sleep = med change.

The main reason I am doing well is that I'm treated by people who trust me. Because I'm in healthcare and have mental health experience and knowledge of meds etc. in my background it's probably a bit easier, but everyone deserves the same to a reasonable point.

One thing many people don't know: Mileage and lodging for medical treatment more than 50 (I think) miles from home is tax deductible. Plus anything over 7.5% of your income spent on healthcare is deductible. If you're bipolar chances are pretty good your meds alone will hit 7.5%, so the travel turns into a tax deduction. Last year my health deduction was over $6000. That was a fairly standard year for me. If you accept that traveling has an upfront expense but many, many benefits and a promise of getting your money back eventually, it is soooooooo worth it.

The best place to go, btw, is a large university hospital, esp. one with a mood disorders clinic. This allows you to see an expert in bipolar. It also may give you a chance at free treatment in a clinical trial, which I did and highly recommend as it was a good way to get a solid foundation with my meds.

G.J. Gregory

12/28/07 9:20pm

Hello Emma!

I hear what you are saying about your husband. When I was diagnosed I said "this explains a lot!"

You are right when you talk about being self-aware, it is so important to know what is coming and why.

A great comment, thanks for sharing your experiences.

Anonymous

12/29/07 1:47am

Thank you for responding, maybe you could treat him (just kidding). I would love for him to go to a university hospital. The nearest one to us is also 2 hours away. I do think his doctor knows medicine, it just seems to offend her if we ask questions about his meds. Thank you again, Emma

Just Me

12/29/07 3:15pm

The thing is that she has no right to be offended. None at all.

I get offended when my patients (ones who are competent) tell me that what I do is stupid, that my education is a waste of money, that if I was smart enough to do this I shouldn't have wasted my brains on it. All the while the while they are unable to do the things that my therapy treats. I have also been offended by a patient who was very rude to me about my birthmark.

If the questions come up about why I'm treating the way I am it is my ethical responsibility to answer and to listen. We all know how confusing dysphoric mania and depression can be, not to mention mixed episodes. I freqently mind my psychiatrist will be calling something mixed, I'm calling it mixed mainly because she's been the one teaching me the longest, and my psychologist is more thinking dysphoric mania. Truthfully, same difference.

I just can't imagine ever being told I felt the opposite of how I felt, or being threatened for asking questions.

It really might be worth it to even go ONCE to the university. See if you can get suggestions.

Just because the doctor knows meds doesn't mean she is good. I know meds because I have been on literally all of them and have seen many patients on them. And that sure doesn't qualify me to diagnose!:)

tabby

12/28/07 7:25pm

These are the things that I believe regarding Bipolar, Schizophrenia, and other Mood Disorders:

1) We are not born with them but have the genetic makeup for them to be triggered into "being".

2) Childhood abuse, trauma, environmental surroundings, behavioral skills learned and accepted by those in our surroundings while young all can set the disorders in motion.

3) I do not believe in meds for each & every symptom. I do not believe in medicating young children UNLESS it is absolutely necessary and/or literally life or death. Their brains are developing, hormones play a part. You are hard wiring their brains to think as the drugs want them to think and not what they naturally are. You mess with the brain while it is developing - you get what you get when they are older and yet, you'll never know who they would've been. Plus, they can't voice whether they want their brains re-wired. Agree or not, don't care (I suffered mercilessly as a teen, I'm still glad I wasn't medicated with high powered anti-psychotics)

4) Bipolar is a life long chronic and often debilitating illness. I know folks who have been diligent with their meds, diligent with sleep, go to every meeting when the door cracks - they still at times become suicidal and at times manic - even on meds, even sleeping on schedule, even going to therapy. Stress of any kind, grief over a loss, anything that throws a curve - can cause the most stable of folks to relapse. Heck, it doesn't even have to have a curve thrown.

5) Not all with Bipolar are killers, lack conscience, lack empathy, lack sympathy. Not all with Bipolar are violent, aggressive, or abusive. This is a behavioral trait learned and accepted while young. Bipolar mood swings feed this behavior and unless the individual learns a different trait - it continues.

6) And lastly - not every single solitary individual person on earth has Bipolar. It can't just "happen", it takes time to develop. Just cause your "other" displays hypersexuality and gambles till the cows come a mooing - doesn't make a Bipolar person. Just cause your "other" raises the vocal cords, agitated, and ill mannered - doesn't make a Bipolar person. Oh, and each person in a relationship needs to own up to their own individual responsibilities if the relationship turns sour. You aren't so easy to live with neither.

G.J. Gregory

12/28/07 10:35pm

Tabby,

Great comment. Exactly what I was looking for, to see how others see the same issues. It's interesting that everyone sees this disorder a little differently. While we all have several shared views, there's enough differing views to clearly illustrate the lack of a definitive body of knowledge about bipolar disorder.

Thanks again for such a thoughtful comment.

sherri bercier

12/29/07 1:47pm

i feel that with bipoolar you only need up to three meds and one prn to only help you deal with the illness. the meds can't do it for you but can aide in subsiding some of the symptoms and while the meds are doing their job, you can cognative restructure your mind, your self, your soul in order to live better. when you cognative restructure yourself, you change things. when things have changed, you have a better sense of self, a better way of living with bipolar--it becomes like its not there at all!:)

Just Me

12/29/07 3:31pm

Sheri-

why such set numbers? Of course it is best to be on less meds, but if it doesn't work for you then it seems like more is a good thing. Yes, taking more means more side effects, but I'll happily trade side effects for not wanting to die all the time.

Which of my meds should I give up? See why I'm happy to take all of these? Plus meds to help the side effects?

If I take away my main med Depakote I have out of control anger and yelling at people. I also can't sleep at all, and I can't stop moving. No thanks. I'm on a very high dose of depakote.

If I take away my other main med Seroquel I still can't sleep. I'm suicidal and angry and can't stop moving/doing things 24/7. I'm on a moderate-high dose, a high dose for combination with depakote.

If I give up my antidepressant I'm suicidal. No good. I take a low dose of this one.

If I give up lithium, even the tiny dose I take, I am severely depressed and want to die.

If I give up my routine anxiety med I am, obviously, anxious. So anxious I trigger cycling.

If I give up Provigil I can't work. I need to work for obvious reasons.

Along with these I have a couple meds for side effects, a vitamin complex, and an acid reducer. I also have PRN ativan that I almost never need.

I take 28 pills/day and I'm grateful for all of them. That is $75/day. Thank God for insurance. I'd take another whole mood stabilizer if I had to. I don't care about numbers, just about feeling good. I don't care about the risks (as long as they are made with my best interests at forefront).

Every situation is different. I've tried better solutions; this is the only one that ever worked for me. Therefore it is the best option for me. Even though it sounds atrocious.

sherri bercier

12/30/07 8:25pm

if all these meds work for you then by all means take them--i was just able to narrow the field down some to just a few, i am very lucky, but i would take more if i had to. maybe some talk therapy would help the depressions' suicidal effects and some of the other symptoms(it worked for me) oh--maybe the lithium is a little too much; i mean it seems like all the other meds are doing the trick, why add lithium. you said it helps with the depression and its symptoms but so did some of the others

thanks for the response

talk later

Just Me

12/30/07 10:50pm

I see a therapist weekly (sometimes more) and have for 6 consecutive years plus other times in the past.

If I go off my micro-dose of lithium I cycle badly. I can't tolerate more because my body somehow doesn't tolerate it after a toxicity. My doctor has 3 patients who all have the same phenomena.

The thing is that I am very, very severely bipolar and this is what it takes to treat me. Yet I do get enough response to treatment to have a somewhat functional life, more than goes with how severely I'm affected in other areas of life. I think probably I'm much more like the people who are in group homes in terms of severity in some ways, but something has so far preserved my ability to be independent. But if we all were lined up in a severity line I'd be at the end with the biggest problem.

My point is just never assign numbers because you'd be surprised what you can do sometimes. I take no credit for how I am; I have nothing to do with it except I'm very, very good about taking pills and seeing doctors. I used to be horrified at the thought of taking so much medication and it was not until I was able to accept that I had no choice left that I finally got the meds I needed.

I know that to anyone who doesn't know me my med list sounds like my doctor is an idiot who is snowing me. Yet believe it or not I still struggle to fall asleep when I take at bedtime: 650 mg Seroquel, 3000 mg Depakote, 30 mg Atarax (anxiety), 300 mg lithium, 40 mg imipramine, and a handful of unrelated meds/vitamins/minerals. And this is the best I've ever slept in my entire life.

I guess my point is just never be surprised at the amazing things that this illness can do or that the human body can compensate.

Just Me

12/30/07 10:57pm

Also lithium has a cognitive-protection response. They don't know how big it is yet or how it works, but people on longterm lithium have less brain damage in the later years of the illness.

I'm all for that. I already have enough memory problems I can use all the help available!

sherri bercier

1/ 1/08 2:39pm

very true i didn't think of that and iam on lithium so i know how it clears your mind, i love and live on taking lithium...i would be lost without it sorry if i made a speculative comment about it

LadyBehindTheMask

11/25/10 12:01am

Sherri, can't speak for others on poly pharma routines, but for me, I'm so sensitive to side effects that I can't take a normal "therapeutic" dose of anything. So I take two mood stabilizers -- small side effect from each, and additive mood stabilization. Three meds that help with other issues, again in low doses. If I reduce any, I have very specific symptoms, and if I took higher doses I would have very specific symptoms as well (including disorientation, etc). So sometimes there's a reason for taking lots of different meds. My doc and I spent five years trying different levels and combinations of (I've got the chart but I think it was) 18 different meds before we got to these five.

G.J. Gregory

12/29/07 8:18pm

This has been fascinating. Thanks to all for your comments, and I hope we get more. Everybody is right, of course, as each person's opinion is based on their own experience. This illustrates the total lack of a comprehensive body of knowledge about this disorder, and that's disturbing.

More opinions? Keep 'em coming.

Eric

12/31/07 7:19am

Hmmmmmmmm…what’s my take?

Well I used to think I was special having the illness until it became as I put it, the flavor of the moth illness.

Ø If a person were caught cheating on their partner (hypersexuality)…they must be bipolar.

Ø If a person had a drinking or gambling problem....bipolar again.

Ø If the person didn’t understand the concept of how to manage or budget money and continually over spent on credit cards…gosh that person needs to be treated for bipolarism.

Ø If a person went on a rampage killing people…again bipolarism is brought into play

Ø If a child is acting out because parents feel dropping their kids off at a day care center all day and not really spending time with them in the evening is called parenting, we again dope them up with medications because of our failings as parent…god forbid if we actually had to take any responsibility for how our child turns out.

I can continue with this list but I think you get the point. So many are misdiagnosed now as being bipolar to explain behavioral problems that could for the most part be fixed aka cured. So why not medicate everyone so that none of have to take any responsibilities for our actions.

This point and time will be known as the “Generations of Excuses” of why we don’t need to take any responsibility any more because we can lay blame to a mental illness and not just do the right thing. Instead we can just take a pill for every issue in our lives instead of owning our failings and making the necessary changes to get us back on the right track.

It is genetic and you are born with it and if you look back through your family tree, there should be markers of family members having the illness. There are no cures that I am aware of, just medications to help control the symptoms.

Maybe I’m not even bipolar and really suffering from menopause? Don’t seem to have any hot flashes unless the wife turns up the furnace because she cold. Have to remember to talk with the doc about the possibility of a hormone patch on my next visit.

G.J. Gregory

12/31/07 9:45am

Eric,

Thanks for your input.

tabby

12/31/07 7:50pm

Oh Eric, that explains so much.

If the hormone patch doesn't help ya, try some of the pills. Big Grin

Mercurial Enigma

1/ 1/08 9:23am

There appears to be a dearth of information on the subject of a cure for organic and/or situational bipolar. There are some published documents available from highly credible agencies, universities and portal websites. These include Johns Hopkins, The Mayo Clinic, Harvard, Yale, Medlineplus, Pubmed, NIMH, WHO, Black Dog Institute (Aust), HealthInsite (Aust), Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, Bipolar Depression and Support Alliance, Department of Health and Ageing (Aust), WebMD, Medscape, University of Oxford (UK), University of Cambridge (UK).

It is my understanding that none of these researched sources indicated that we are presently in possession of a medical cure. Some stated categorically that there is no cure. Others spoke in terms of attempting to stop and/or halt the progress of symptoms.

Having lived with bipolar disorder and a psychotic illness for 37 years, I can categorically say that I've never reached a point of total recovery - let alone a complete end to symptoms. So, in my opinion, having looked at some of the professional published documents (both now and previously), and from my own anecdotal experience, I must come to the irrevocable conclusion that a cure does not exist at this present time.

As someone who has pursued the concept of ‘superior illness management' (a term I made up all by my little self), I have utilised most of the available and recognised treatment regimes on a long-term basis. I have strived to obtain and maintain the best possible health within the parameters present in having a mental illness.

Please, please don't interpret this as me "patting myself on the back" as I have resoundingly and spectacularly failed more times than I care to think about.

If I was required to strive for a level of recovery that meant by definition no more symptoms, ever, I would at least be tempted to stop trying. If that is the definition, hypothetically, then it is an impossible mission without a cure. Personally, I think for "recovery" to mean a state where symptoms are eliminated, it is far too restrictive. It does not automatically follow that for a definition to become broader, or more inclusive, it will then lose some of its strength, clarity and meaning.

For example, if the academic and on-the-ground medical professionals viewed recovery to mean an end of all symptoms - just imagine how that might affect you and me as we interact with our psychiatrists and GPs, and hospitals for that matter. Possibly, the expectations imposed upon us would result in a detrimental effect rather than a positive one?

Anyway, I don't believe there is a cure for bipolar disorder or psychotic illnesses. I believe that we can and should strive to manage our illnesses to the degree that we are able, at any given time, considering the severity of those illnesses. You see at present I am at a stage in my life and illness where I would be considered (both by my doctors and peers), to be in recovery.

But I'm currently making my way successfully through a time of depression that can only be described as a ‘horror'. Also, even when I'm not experiencing significant symptoms - that are intruding on by ability to function and my quality of life - there are still discrepancies and deficits that are happening both internally and externally. In my very strong opinion the idea that we experience episodes of illness, and in between there are no symptoms at all, is a total myth.

Peter

G.J. Gregory

1/ 2/08 11:07am

Peter,

One thing that always frustrates me, how can they have a cure if they don't even have a universally accepted diagnostic criteria? There's the DSM.x, but I could grab virtually anyone off the street and make a strong case for a DSM diagnosis.

That was an excellent, thorough, and knowledgeable comment. Thank you for that. I agree with most everything you wrote.

I hope the new year continues to bring health and wellness, and every day a step further from your recent depression.

Mercurial Enigma

1/ 3/08 6:51am

Thank you for your kind words.

I share your frustration as of course the same situation exists in Australia. I think a comlpete reworking, re-engineering, and redefining of the diagnostic parameters is essential. So that all medical professionals both academic and 'on-the-ground', regardless of continents, have a clearly defined highly specific criteria of assessment.

Some of the published documents and research papers I viewed for my comment were tragically confused and full of double talk. There seemed to be a conudrum as to the issue of what mental illness really is - something I found horrifying.

Thanks again

Peter

raku

1/ 6/08 10:58pm

I agree, peter. I felt so good today that I (now looking back on my day) thought, " gosh, I don't think I have bipolar. I feel great." But, I know this is not going to last too long, unfortunately. I will go back to the low-grade baseline depression I usually find myself between "symptoms". I don't know what those periods, short as they are, are called, however, I wish I was that person all the time. What I don't like about my "symptom-free" period, is that I get tired, or I should say, overwhelmed by over-stimulation...going to the mall with my daughter, i.e., and not realizing that I am getting that way until it is too late. Or maybe another part of my "symptom free" period is wanting so badly to get going, but being so unmotivated, and then becoming frustrated over my inmobility. The best part of my "symptom-free period" is wanting to stay up late and work on my art but having to make myself go to bed because I know the effect of that scenario....I will be extremely unmotivated, extremely depressed, extremely angry at trivial things and extremely sensitive to stimuli. So, I guess, like Peter, I will take my "symptom-free" period any day, although I wish I could have the short-lived period of "gosh, I feel really good today!" I know people like that, they live like that there whole life, more or less...my husband is one of them. I want his BRAIN ....well, some of it(:

Mercurial Enigma

1/ 7/08 12:29am

Hi Raku,

Thanks for your reply, I'm glad you understand about the in between times. I think you described those times very well. Bipolar is never a simple illness is it? One of the groups I wish could understand this issue is the medical profession - just think of all the heartache that could be saved? I hope you stay as healthy as possible.

Thanks again,

Peter

raku

1/ 2/08 7:12pm

Hi

I just read all the oppinions about bipolar. I thought it was interesting to see all the differences....and it spurred me to think how I would like to see the same posited for the "variety of symptoms, triggers, what "your bipolar looks like". Could you do that?

feather Blush

G.J. Gregory

1/ 7/08 6:53am

Now that would give an interesting mix of responses, wouldn't it?

I'll have to see how to work that in.

Thanks!

raku

1/ 7/08 9:44pm

...me again Roll Eyes

I have never heard of the term "situational bipolar". what does that mean? Is this another "form" of bipolar, now? Wacko (that expression fits me, right now.)

Thanks for any insight on the new vocabulary, as I have not heard this, as of yet.

raku

G.J. Gregory

1/ 9/08 12:08am

Hey Raku,

I use this term to refer to bipolar disorder that is brought about by a particular "situation". Maybe due to abuse, or trauma, or other situations. It may not be an actual psychiatric term, but it describes what I was trying to convey.

S.G.

1/ 9/08 7:37am

I guess I'm one that you would consider "over medicated" because I do take 6 different meds for bp & one winter had to add Wellbutrin (so 7 meds). I was able to get off it in the spring.

My doc says that I am one who will have to take meds the rest of my life due to suicide attempts (plus my mother was bp & did commit suicide). I have had delusions & paranoia. I still had a relapse 1 1/2 years ago & overdosed despite having been stable on these meds for 5 years & it was brought on by a situation that was very hurtful to me. I'm still reeling from that relapse & having cycling despite meds. I'm in close contact with my doc & have returned to therapy. I had been doing so well that I discontinued therapy during those 5 years.

As as aside, what do you do in therapy? I'm not sure I'm getting any better with the therapy. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get help from it.

I did haver abuse when I was a child due to my mother & father both being alcoholics, plus my mother's bp. So that may have "triggered" the bp to rear its ugly head when I was 15 (1st suicide attempt then).

I have 2 children & asked my doc how to protect them from developing bp. She said to raise them in as stable an environment as possible would help. Well, with my bp I guess it was difficult to have a stable environmnet, though my husband was an excellent father & picked up the slack when I was unwell. (We've been married for 34 years--he's a saint).

Unfortunately, both my kids have gone through periods of depression where they needed meds. They are off them now, but I think my daughter needs to go back on them but she fears the stigma if anyone found out (she's a lawyer).

So I definitely think bp is highly genetically based & that situations can trigger the onset or relapses. I participated in a study that is looking at the genetic component of bp.

Anyway, despite Trazodone & klonopin at night I haven't been sleeping except a few hours a night for a couple months. My doc wanted to add Seroquel (sp?) but I refused as it can promote weight gain & I've already gained 50 lbs. on my meds which is causing some depression & hopelessness.

Today's a new day & I am attempting to practice good self-care & exercise & eat a healthy diet, journal, have a balance between doing chores & hobbies (reading & knitting) & not isolate myself too much (a problem with me). Even when I don't get together or talk on the phone with one of the few friends I've made in my support group or through NAMI (don't have any "normal" friends), I'll take a book & go to a coffee shop just to be around people so I don't feel like such a loser.

G.J. Gregory

1/19/08 6:17pm

SG - A great post, with some great information. The last paragraph where you talk about not isolating is great advice,

Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment.

Anonymous

3/ 6/08 3:21pm

I have a friend who is Manic-Depressive. She is now on medication. But she won't stay on it and she is actually worse because it is a mental illness that tells you that you aren't mentally ill. So, she goes off till someone tells her to go back on them.

Her biggest problem with the pills is that she feels "normal," not grandiose, not lower that pond scum. Not suicidal and not homocidal. But what the pills do seem to hightlight in her is that she does not have empathy, sympathy, or any kind of conscience at all. When not on pills it doesn't seem to bother her at all, she says, "I AM WHAT I AM," And I think this really bothers her the most, not having a conscience. She is a bright person, computer technician, and is considered high functioning. Meaning she holds down a job.

I no longer speak to her, at all, I learned how cruel she could be a couple a months ago. I don't believe that a pill can give you a conscience. So I don't believe she would consider it recovery till it did.

What I have witnessed in the last two years of my best ex-friend has the same behavior with/without pills, and I don't even feel like she is the same person when she is on medication. It is like talking to a black/cold hole.

G.J. Gregory

3/ 6/08 7:13pm

Your post drives home so many of the issues surrounding bipolar disorder.

First, those around the person suffer as much, and offer more, than the person with the disorder.

Next, those with the disorder have a hard time recognizing the disorder, then recognizing the need to continue treatment.

Finally, the disorder impacts everone so differently. Not only that, treatment impacts everyone differently. So your friend may react completely differently than another on the same medication.

Personally, I think the majority of people actually gain compassion and understanding. But, as you know, not everyone.

Thanks for you comment.

Anonymous

3/ 6/08 3:21pm

I have a friend who is Manic-Depressive. She is now on medication. But she won't stay on it and she is actually worse because it is a mental illness that tells you that you aren't mentally ill. So, she goes off till someone tells her to go back on them.

Her biggest problem with the pills is that she feels "normal," not grandiose, not lower that pond scum. Not suicidal and not homocidal. But what the pills do seem to hightlight in her is that she does not have empathy, sympathy, or any kind of conscience at all. When not on pills it doesn't seem to bother her at all, she says, "I AM WHAT I AM," And I think this really bothers her the most, not having a conscience. She is a bright person, computer technician, and is considered high functioning. Meaning she holds down a job.

I no longer speak to her, at all, I learned how cruel she could be a couple a months ago. I don't believe that a pill can give you a conscience. So I don't believe she would consider it recovery till it did.

What I have witnessed in the last two years of my best ex-friend has the same behavior with/without pills, and I don't even feel like she is the same person when she is on medication. It is like talking to a black/cold hole.

Ponting

2/10/11 12:54am

The Bipolar disorder in children is a disorder of mood regulation. In this disorder you have problems regulating your mood from going into either depressive periods, or going into manic periods, which can be of very high periods. It is very unpredictable in children. The child shows violent and destructive temper which can last for hours. Medication, ongoing psychotherapy, or talk therapy, are some important Bipolar Disorder Treatment.

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