Hold The Ladder - I'm Coming Down - Mania and Manic Episodes

3/11/08 3:29pm

Dear G.J. I am sorry to hear about your manic episode. I have had about 5 major manic episodes in my 23 years of being bipolar. For some reason I remember everything when I have had them. My doctor said that it might have been better if I didn't. The worst one was when I sat in front of the tv watching the movie Don't Tell Mom the Babysitters Dead. I watched it over and over. I even saw my family in the movie. I sat in the chair all weekend in my pajamas. It was my daughters'10 birthday and my husband had to take 9 kids to the pool for her party by himself. While they were at the party I called the police because my neighbor came over and borrowed my husbands ladder I thought he was stealing it. The house behind us was empty and I was sure that their were people in there watching me because I was involved in a lawsuit. By the time my husband got home from the party he realized how bad I was an d called my doctor. She said to bring me to the hospital. He called an ambulance because he was afraid I would jump out of the car. When an ambulance comes to your house the police come too. I didn't like the looks of one of the policeman so I started swearing at him to get out of my house. This was in the middle of the afternoon so of course all the neighbors came out to see what was going on. Thank God I had wonderful neighbors and they were very understanding about my illness. I was embaressed the next time I saw that police officer. Anyways I understand about mania. I had a vagus nerve implant in 2005 for depression and have not had a manic episodesince then. The implant is for depression so I still worry that I might have another one but so far so good.

G.J. Gregory

3/12/08 6:27pm

Sue,

Thanks for sharing that. Thanks also for sharing your experience with the Vagus implant. Others may find that information very helpful in the future.

24hbipolar2

3/11/08 4:11pm

You are right, G.J., the real diagnosis of psychosis is not acting crazy, it is the loss of touch with reality that is the most scary part. I am a rapid cycler and it is difficult to say how many times I have been hypo/manic, but the episodes with psychosis I always remember, because they feel, now, like I was looking though a distorted glass. The distortion comes about so subtlely that you cannot tell when you are finally "there" but you can tell when you "leave". I am glad you safely navigated that episode and are moving towards stability again.

G.J. Gregory

3/12/08 6:30pm

You nailed it. Thanks for that comment.

Eric

3/12/08 8:05am

Glad to hear you are on the right track and headed back to where you need to be. I just wanted to make a comment on a few things you said. The truth is that we do know when were going up but most often fail to do anything about it because we enjoy the increased energy, our mind is really clicking and we can accomplish wonderful things.

The problems stem from the fact that once you are hypomanic anything can cause the flip and then you are totally out of control and should have been placed in a acute mental health hospital. In your case, the decrease in the need for sleep should have been the first indicator that things were going amiss.

Most of us tend to after the fact talk about the impact it had on us. The better thought process on this idea is to think of what effect it has had on our loved ones and friends that had to deal with us. They did not choose this for a way of life and honestly have no control over making sure we stay well…that is our job and we owe to them to take care to prevent such actions in the future.

Honestly if you were my spouse, I would have tossed you in the hospital in a heartbeat and said I would visit once a day. I would also have issues that I had to take care of it instead of you doing the right thing prior to it getting to this point. G.J. You owe it to yourself, your family and friends to take care of it prior to it getting out of hand.

OK…you cannot change the past, make amends and move forward…you can make sure it does not happen again in the future. I want you all to think about why it is so important to stay on top of this. There should be no drama, police or hospitalizations if you tend to it early enough…most of the time we know it’s happening.

G.J. Gregory

3/12/08 7:14pm

Eric,

Curious why you would assume about the prelude to mania:

"...we enjoy the increased energy, our mind is really clicking and we can accomplish wonderful things..."

By "we", do you mean "you"?

That's the danger of assuming an experience applies to anyone else. There was very little pleasant about any of this upturn. The lack of shareposts in the last 2 months speaks to my inability to "accomplish wonderful things".

"...Honestly if you were my spouse, I would have tossed you in the hospital in a heartbeat and said I would visit once a day. I would also have issues that I had to take care of it instead of you doing the right thing prior to it getting to this point..."

I think it's safe to say if my wife thought this way, we wouldn't have made it 28 years.

Eric

3/13/08 2:18am

Yes...

A. I guess I was speaking of myself in regards to the effects of hypomania as a prelude to mania of increased energy, drive and creative thinking and or mixed state of agitation with increased energy and thought process...is very unique to me (Guess your post on Feb. 13 of Hypo, mania, depression has no bearing)

B. Your last article was 02/13/08 and I thought good not two months ago

C. My hat goes off to your wife and family for being supportive and helping you through it.

D. My main point was to get you to own it instead of pretending to be the victim in all of this. We cannot fix or change what we do not acknowledge….helpless and hopeless verses empowerment to better ourselves, your choice. Either way I wish you the very best.

cynthia arceneaux

3/15/08 12:32pm

Eric, i just read your reply to G.J.'s post. I have to say that in the last paragraph you are way out of touch with the true symptom of sychosis. I recently, and always, have that symptom with mania. It can and does change in a moment. I did all the right things, tried to get my dr to listen when i said i wasn't sleeping, even went in the hospital for a week to "catch up". When i got out I was immediatly transformed back into the mania mode. I went two days with very little sleep and very much energy. I know the warning signs and tried to take care of them. I called the hotline and got reasurance. What followed was typical sychosis. I had a visit from the police, a neighbor called, and they didn't see that I was in any danger to myself or other, even though I later found out they never actully saw me they talked threw the door, so they couldn't do anything. They didn't know that i could go from reality to disasociation in the matter of minutes. The previous week this is what happened and i overdosed on 9000mg of seroqual and didn't even remember doing it. Thankfully while i was in a state of disasociation I still called for help. Anyway, a friend called a little while later and realized I was in trouble so he called the police. They came back and got in my house and eventually called my daughter and she came and then they called the CIT. They took me forceably to the hospital and i got treatment. I don't remember the first 6 days there and all this info i know through what my friend and my daughter told me after i got out of the hospital. I have no recollection of any of this. My daughter told me i was liike two people trying to take power. I don't know if anyone else has had a similar situation or if it is just mine but as you can see some times it doesn't matter how much we try to avoid the inevitable hospalization can and does happen.

ctrygirl

3/12/08 9:01am

My friend GJ,

I so know where you are coming from, I too am a very manic person DAILY>>.serioulsy....I go through the pacing, ringing of the hands, often catonic like state at times (not intense just out there somewhere who knows where) there hasn't been a night that i have slept over 4 hours in about, well I can't tell you without looking at my mood diary, but if it says anything i can't remember the last time i got a full nights rest of 6 hours or more!!

I am a mixed mood VERY rapid cycler so i know exactly what you are going through. It seems that during those times I often "see" and "hear" things and they pull me right from that deep depression/crying spells to hypo mania to pure manic no matter what awareness i have of it occurring, it really just sneaks up on me and there is nothing i can do to stop it, have tried additional meds from pdoc, increase in meds, new sleep meds (one of which gave me what i would term NIGHT TERRORS not just night mares......and another had me sleepwalking quite a lot.....still do that at times and don't even know it), coping skills, breathing exercises, journaling, drawing, photography, walking in nature and on it goes....but nothing STOPS it persay..

......but Seroquel was one that really seemed to help me and the next appt i have with doc i am thinking of asking for that back..(currently on trazadone but uhm ain't getting it) ..but i have heard so many pros and cons on seroquel (but heck what med do we take that don't have that geez) i am not sure....but heck, no sleep, mania and depression and a constant constant state of sadness deep inside that never goes away no matter the "stage"....even during mania...

I found myself one time not only NOT sleeping, but still to this day i EAT to LIVE no appetite whatsoever, have lost 55 lbs, and really am eating but had blood tests etc for i too researched everything i could think of for this weight loss....but it is almost like wasting away and still eating!! But i do have physical issues that could be affecting it,(weird you mentioned ms for i have 7 lesions on the brain and were ready to put me on interferon meds, but i got second opinion and they said after 9 lesions they like to star so i went with that one hmmm, and many autoimmune disorders, and epstein barr CHRONIC condition, along with fibromyalgia, cfs, rls, tmj etc...but wondered if it all stemmed from the bp for it came as the LAST final answer ....and it really isn't unusual for those with bp to have some of these disorders.....but the lesions have me thinking is that a trigger for the mixed stage....but researching that and asking each doc i see....but no they say, the symptoms are classic bp regardless of the lesions, but can't help but wonder about the lesions and bp kinda like the chicken and egg thing ya know)

but really they can find nothing that helps in that area.....

but anyway was going to tell you one of my manic stages i really believed (and still not so sure) that i saw Jesus and that i was given information that was uhm privy to me and for me to share with others.....i have seen people that i don't even know and draw them (a coping skill of mine and it is almost like automatic writing for i also journal, it just comes and comes quickly almost like you'd see a kid scribbling but it ends up being a picture ofwhat i am seeing for i'm so anxious to get it down....and then find myself never completing anything......so noticing the triggers DOESN"T FOR ME mean that i can stop them...)
and as for NOT going to the hospital, well, I am with you there too, I know Eric is RIGHT he is so right we need to get the help we need when we need it, but SOME of us so avoid that for many reasons, my personal one is paranoria and fear that i won't get out and the stigma that goes with the fact of going in the first place....and the affect it will have on my family and grandkids....i just can't see myself doing so without being MADE to, and Eric is right, it would most likely help us, but with the strong support group you and i seem to have it is a blessing for they can watch for the signs and watch for the dangers too....however, he is also right abot they didn't ask for this.....and yet, we didn't EITHER>

....and yet when true love is UNCONDITIONAL then it matters not really..for better or worse...at least as far as my husband is concerned yeah there are hard times and times he just wants to shake me, but heck we are so close (known each other since 8th grade and high school sweethearts transitioned to marriage after many years apart but anyway he is in tune and loves me no matter what as your wife does you....seee she pulled you into waiting to talk to the doc before making rash decision) so sometimes others who have been or are able to admit themselves to Mental Health facilities often don't understand the inhibitions of those of us that uhm well just FEAR IT flat out....i really do DO DO think it would make me WORSE .....for anxiety i can feel building just thinking of it.....i know it is UNFOUNDED and know that it is NEEDED so often.....but i so understand your hesitation....

but again Eric is right, we do need to utilize that when we need....i too have never been in for bp to a mhi and well i pray that through hotlines, therapy, pdocs and support group that i never have to......even though my lawyer told me it would be an open and shut case for my ss disability if i did....i still can't.....I actually fear the hotline even and yeah i know PARANORIA of the mania and the disorder in general.....for sure sure sure, but not easy to overcome and not something we shut off ya know.....i fear the hotline for the fact i fear theyll come and get me and get this my therapist actually gave me the "homework" assignment to call the hotline when feeling manic at 3am in the morning and wandeing about the house or frantically working on a project that need not be rushed but have to do something with these hands or mind when like that......

BUT i still have yet to do it......my fear overrides my common sense in this sense....

there is a quote i often understand and few others do.....

"at times the ability of the body is overridden by the capabilities and reason of the mind.....and there are times the mind overcomes the body's ability to act......"

I know nothing profound there, but truly I do DO DO understand...

AND GJ>>>>
DON"T you DARE worry about getting posts and replies done, it is important for you to get back to yourself FIRST and FOREMOST this is secondary to your health.....we all love you so, and hope the best for you and so many care for you here, and glad that you share your experiences with us, for to be honest it helps me out a lot, seems we have a lot of the same situations at times and it makes one feel not alone, but please, HEAL FIRST and take care of posts much later....they are minimal compared to your health...and we need you healthy, we all need you here, not to mention that precious family of yours needing you stable/healthy or leveled out......

rest assured there are many and i mean MANY of us that know its coming, but that doesnt mean we can

kinda like an avalanche you can see it coming but as human what the heck are you going to do to stop it's traveling down the mountain...NOTHING>>>>>

or a tornado in the distance, you can only seek shelter and protection....can't stop the changes it brings......kinda the bp thoughts i have about mixed mood and rapid cycling for i live it 24/7 and switch from one to the other within a 24 hour period.....now that is hard hard hard to deal with too.....so my friend...

TAKE CARE AND KNOW YOUR LOVED AND WE ALL WISH YOU BEST AND HOPE YOU GET BACK TO LEVEL SOON>>>>keep on meds and keep on with that determination....

Take care my friend........feel that?????it's a hug from us all !!!!! with prayers and positive energy headed your way
your friend,

ctrygirl

G.J. Gregory

3/12/08 7:23pm

ctrygirl,

You've spent some time living in hell, haven't you? The more I hear from you and what you've endured, the more impressed I am.

Thanks for your kind comments.

ctrygirl

3/13/08 8:04am

GJ

You are so right, there are so many times we relate how Mania makes US feel that we forget that for others it is pure torture,

to be honest i've had mixed feelings over it, am very creative and very uhm fast moving/talking/thinking etc.....and compared to the dark caverns of depression, well, i guess i prefer the hope/light of mania, but i know the edge is sooooo close

whenmanic literally feel PHYSICAL symptoms like heart/bp etc increase and know that can't be good internally...at ALL....

and please take no offense at others who DON"T know what you live, how you go through life, how you adapt to the changes that plague us as bps...you've NEVER posted excuses for your behavior and you DO own it so don't let other posts get to ya per say...

..we LOVE you here and i have so worried about you and you not posting for such a time, began to wonder if it was that you were alright or not....and so glad you've come back to share with us why you were gone, for there are times i can't literally sit still long enough TO post...so got you on that one, and heck if i did who the heck would understand it...

Well, as for me being through it, well, yeah, but ya know what i just read a book called MERCY by a new author who had never published before and she was assigned in Africa and she wrote about the things that "weren't allowed to be published for too harsh for the public" (hmmm sign that the media is deciding what we are exposed to or know about????or my paranoria????) anyway, there are so many going through so much much more than i that i can't complain and well, as i said, if i had my choice of a pill or not, not sure i'd do it....really not....now how double sided is that coin????geez i mean take meds to control it but notsure i'd rid myself of the internalization that takes place.....feel compressed, depressed, manic, hypomanic, anxiety attacks, panic attacks etc....and then the physical illnesses

and well then on the other side I utilize it to create...to go from one project to another(none complete really) and yet expressing self so one day when i'm gone perhaps someone can look at those pics, poems, journal entries and see the world from another perspective ....well perhaps ....a girl can dream huH??? tehee..no they'd probablyin this state of the world go ...OH well she was just a freak or nuts and IM NEITHER tehee..

So, just wanted to let you know I'm with you and hope you are healing daily...

You hold tight to that precious wife....she is a life saver, literally.....a life jacket in the storms of the sea that we all know are just awaiting us or at bay for the moment but yet never gone.....

Glad you're back GJ ...

your friend,

ctrygirl

Ankshus

3/12/08 2:21pm

Thanks so much for your recent posting. thanks for clarifying the difference between hypomania and hypermanic. I have been hospitalized for manic episodes 3 times and the last one lasted for 3 weeks in the hospital. After about 10 years I was finally diagnosed. It took that long for doctors to fighure it out. I went to a mental health clinic because I had lost my job because of depression. That was when I was first introduced to Lithium. That was a turning point for me. It was like a miracle. Later.

Ankshus

G.J. Gregory

3/12/08 7:39pm

Ankshus,

Thanks for your comment. It's amazing what people have gone through living with bipolar disorder, and I'm really glad you shared your experiences.

Angie

3/12/08 9:33pm

Hey there, Friend.

I've swam a few laps in the deep end myself lately. And as bad as I hated it, after being on a low dose of Seroquel for a couple months, my doc had me increase it. Ugh, the dry mouth, the sedation, the feeling that my eyeballs have been taken out and put in backwards ... but you know, after raging out of control for several days, I can live with the side effects. I find that I actually get a tolerance to them, which speaks for the need in the first place. My Lithium has been at 900mg for almost a year now, with my blood level on the low/normal side (0.7)

I can usually predict some escalation in mood changes this time of year. I have to be VERY, VERY mindful of my sleep, libido, and other pleasure-seeking activities.

I'm glad you're back, G.J. That "nastiy episode of mania" unravels very quickly into some nasty irritability. Remember your brain is sick and is recovering from a major episode. Let you trusted wife and caregivers guide you while recuperating.

Sincerely,

Angie

3/12/08 9:36pm

GJ, my apologies for the typos.

(always the perfectionist-bipolar-personality-type) Big Grin

su1

3/14/08 3:14pm

Hi Angie,

Wondering how all your meds help you & help each other to work better for you? Especially the Lamictal and Lithium? I'm surprised you need the standard 900 mg dose of Lithium when you are already at the standard dose of Lamictal... though GJ seems to be having the same experience...

Angie

3/17/08 12:05am

Hi Sue,

It has been my experience that the Lithium keeps me from getting too high/manic. I tried to go down to 600mg about a year ago, but by June I was very delusional and manic. After one week back on 900mg, I was much more comfortable. I've been there with good blood levels since.

As for Lamictal, it has worked the best for the really malignant depression of 2005-06.

I have a low threshold for mania, and I learned the hard way why I need to take all these meds. Most of the time I now feel what I guess is "normal", (I call it boring). When I get a burst of energy that lasts about three days, a better than average mood, my inner comic gets on everyone's nerve's, and I start pacing for some excitement, I know I'm about to unravel. If I wasn't on the meds, the mood gets ugly and I am very, very mean. I rant about everything from the President to my stupid ex-husband. Every hair on my head stands on end. Seroquel keeps me from being violent and having the auditory hallucinations that occur after not sleeping.

After a few days of this, there will be a migraine. Topomax has slowed those down, but that pain, plus the sadness and guilt of my behavior have me in a depressed cycle for at least 2-3 weeks.

I stopped trying to microanalyze it too much.

Try not to get manic.

Stay on the right dose of meds.

And I stopped wasting time "looking on the bright side" when I'm in a mood. I feel like crap then, and that's no time for me to take an accurate inventory.

Having a "Normal And Productive Life" is a Myth.

su1

3/17/08 9:39am

I smirk at your comment:

Having a "Normal And Productive Life" is a Myth." Happy

I am at the 2-yr mark of my Long Term Disab & so now they are sending more & more questionnaires, with more gruelling questions about whether I can do any job, whereas up to this point, it only mattered if I could not do my regular job. I am scared that my accounting career, that I worked so hard to build, is slipping away. I know we shouldn't define ourselves by our careers, but nonetheless, it is a big part of me... though I know maybe this is a chance to explore a whole new career, and maybe I should just look fwd and embrace the new opportunities. Just hope it doesn't require swallowing my pride, too much...

Anyways, I always get frustrated with the thought that here I am, trying to do the right thing, following the advice 'Seek Treatment. Get a Diagnosis.' I'm the only one in my family that is officially diagnosed with BD, although there are several others that have it too, but they just have not been diagnosed. Well, with all this 'seeking help' I have done, trying to be a 'good girl' and taking all my meds as ordered, how come I am the one who's still sick; I'm the one who is losing my career and remaining off work, even after 2+ yrs being off... I still have yet to see exactly how 'seeking treatment' is supposed to allow me to have a "Normal And Productive Life".

Sharon U.

Hopeful mom

3/12/08 10:26pm

Honestly, I'm in awe of the partnership you and your wife have. It sounds like she knows just what to say and what to do. Like you said, it's hard for you to know when too far is too far and it's wonderful you have a partner to keep you on the right path.

I'm sure you do for her as much as she does for you or you wouldn't have ever made it 18 years.

tls

3/13/08 2:47pm

I keep trying to write something and I get to babbling and then cancel my post - so I will simply say welcome back to normal and I hope too much damage wasn't done:)

Kate

3/13/08 3:11pm

Dear G.J. Gregory,

Been there, done that!! I have been just about all of the meds, in a brew of different proportions, and also shooting for the stars with heavy dosages. Mine is a Bipolar 1 diagnosis (complicated by profound amnesia, short-term cognitive issues, and a "chaotic childhood" shall I say.)

A difficult case indeed, but I truly have the world's best Psychiatrist who is dedicated to making me a success story. The good thing is that I am a ‘rapid cycler'.

I SO agree that the peaks and the troughs are sometimes psychotic. So many of the extremes we go to definitely obliterate our sense of self and our mental lucidity. I believe Kay Redfield Jamison agrees.

I had the worst ‘episode' ever some weeks ago - on the bottom rung of your ladder. I couldn't believe how nutty I was. My husband knows too. The rage was breathtaking and I am a very gentle and empathetic person when well.

But I have the extremely good fortune to a patient in the universal health care of Canada. I am now receiving an experimental treatment that is starting to work.

I also happen to agree about metabolism issues. This was addressed early on by my Psychiatrist. I am medicated and meet with the Endocrinologist yearly. This, healthy supplements and good diet improve our fighting chances.

But please, please, always check with your Doc before you do anything. Sure they are sometimes perplexed but we can do real harm changing meds on our own!

Best wishes in your recovery.

Kate Arthur

bipolarjourneycom

3/13/08 7:05pm

Everything you related sounds very familar. One time for me, the psychosis brought the belief I had a brain tumor. I even found out via the internet the exact kind. I took the long name in to my doctor and well I am sure you can figure out the rest. Seroquel stinks but so does having a brain tumor. Big Grin

Stardust

3/14/08 8:10am

It is only by the Grace of God I have not yet experienced full blown mania. I get up to hypomania and head back down. I'm really glad you came though this episode GJ. Thank God you listened to your dear wife and doctor. Take care of yourself the best you can.

Alice Ann Brennan

3/14/08 8:34am

HI:

Ain't life "grand"? What a challenge we have. I could not take lithium. I got panic attacks from it. Isn't it just terrible to hold a job and have this? Specially when people at work don't understand this illness.

Good luck to you. I have been feeling "normal" for about four month now.

All Alone.

su1

3/14/08 10:32am

I am shocked that you had this reaction since going on Lithium. I saw Angie is taking the standard dose of 200 mg Lamictal + the standard 900 mg Lithium. It looks as though Lithium as an 'add-on' is not enough - you have to either BE on it or NOT be on it (full dose). Anyone else have experience with Lithium as an add-on? I am currently trying a higher dose of Lamictal (300 mg), to see if that is enough to keep my moods & energy levels in the safe mid-range. We might have to even up it to 400 mg, since it seems to show as a low blood level. Anyways, I hope it is enough, since I am now reluctant to try Lithium.

G.J. Gregory

3/14/08 1:45pm

Su1 - I wish I knew what was going on. I thought the Lithium was handling my symptoms, I was told that the synergistic effect with Lamictal was significant, and 600 mg of Lithium was plenty. Maybe for others it works, but it obviously didn't do it for me. There was a false sense of security, a feeling that it never would get critical. It's still not good, I'm still elevated, but not critically so. In another day or two I'll have a better idea of the 900 mg dosage and hopefully can start cutting back on Seroquel.

Cynthia

3/14/08 11:27pm

Bad circumstance-Great title! G. J.: You need to keep a sleep journal, Bipolar has more rungs than your ladder! Blood work, essential element in determining whether the dosage of Lithium - the gold standard, is within the theraputic range. I've escaped hospitalization to date but I have learned about this illness over and over again.

Denial = the potential for trouble. An earache sets off an alarm, sinus infection? Reflux disease? Bloody nose-oops somethings happenin' again, leave the condition to the professionals while you monitor the symptoms! When symptoms move you farther away from yourself, seek professional help. Please...

Peace

Cynthia

www.LifeIsLikeALine.com

JG

4/ 3/08 10:47pm

I wish I had the time to read all the post but I would just have this comment.

As for having been diagnosed 35 years ago with BP and have encountered a lot

of things, I would like to say

(1) Yes, you should have been hospitalized.

(2) If you were in a state of depression when you started Lithium, and if

you were not taking an atipical antipsychotic with it, the Lithium, in all likelihood,

through you into a state of mania. This happened to me once, and then I saw

it happen to a client.

(3) In a state of mania, one is most likely experiencing hypoglycemia. This is

why you are not able to read - blurred vision, and you are hungry for sweets -

might be eating only sweets, which is the worse for you.

(4) Get checked out physically by an internist, take that Seroquel and get some sleep. If you aren't still doing well on just it, take an SSRI, like Lexapro or Zoloft, with it. You will get better!!!!

RTaylor

10/17/08 9:12pm

This is my first time to read and respond to a blog. First let me tell you I'm so sorry about your son. I can't imagine how difficult this time is for you. I was hospitalized on an outpatient basis in April and haven't been the same since. I never thought I had bipolar disorder but that's what the diagnosis was over and over. I connected with your symptoms and am glad I'm not the alone. I cannot concentrate or focus. I'm shaky with tremor although the doc keeps telling me to continue and he'll see me in two weeks. This is the most difficult time in my life. Can't I just go back to my old self?

Hold The Ladder - I'm Coming Down

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