A connection between pot and increased symptoms?

9/18/08 11:26am

Hi AJo, welcome and good for you for reaching out for info.

My heart goes out to you and your family. Remember, your husband is not himself when he "misbehaves" but we gotta get him level again huh?

Im real concerned about your family not being able to afford these important, overpriced meds. There's got to be help out there for this. Its as important as a diabetic's meds huh? "Healthfund" isnt an American term is it? (pardon, I didnt read your profile if you mention there where you live) but aint it "only in America" that regular people can't get basic healthcare? (even w/ insurance plans..)

Try contacting local welfare agencies...the manufacturer of the meds..lets get him back to what was working!

As for marijuana and Bipolar. theres lotsa info on the web about it..no government research...politics , but there is evidence it can HELP some folks, and then again hurt others.. and even those it helps its done only in small doses.. one or two puffs only when really really needed. ( they say it lasts about 3 to 4 hrs)It can mellow a mania and lift a depression...in SOME people.

As for drinking.. never , in my opinion,becuase its a depressant. you can over dose.. ( my friend did) and it really impairs you.

maybe you could go to an AA meeting yourself and find someone to guide you?Whats that ALANON?

Im new at this site, and Im niot the best for advice, but there's some super awesome people on here that really offer great info, sometimes even wonderfully "tuff-love:" insight. keep looking for replies here..it may take a few days for people to check in. and dont hesitate to update and reply inside this post..in the mean time, read up on other threads,. "this to shall pass"

hobie

9/18/08 11:44am

Iv been a pot smoker for 19yrs, I can say that now because Iv been clean for 5 months. I am now for the first time in my life well.

My manic episodes are minimal and my panic episodes as well. I battled this for years on different medications, at time due to certain medications my rage was uncontrollable, and my panic episodes were of the scale, especialy when i was shopping.

Pot does not mix well with Abilify or concerta at all. Pot does not mix well with serequol either.

Its tough because I love Pot, Im all about the legalization anyday. I think our government and the things people do in our society to people who choose to medicate them selves by smoking is evil. Their are alot of evil people in the world who think they do good.

Me being Bypolar 1 I see it as I have 2 choices, either stay on my meds or eliminate them and choose Marijuana. they both give me the same effects in a way but the 2 together conteract eachother. Add to the the evil people in this world who dont belive it should be legal. Keep in mind it takes a good 3months to gett either meds or marijuana out of your system.

I smoked a very strong strain also,( Buddha Sister, grape skunk, grapefruit, blueberry) strait from Amsterdam yearly and grown in a hydroponic medium.

I think its our enviroment that matters how I feel also, I know this Iv spent many years on Islands in the gulf self medicating myself with Marijuana and was feeling perfect!. Doing that today in a Suburban area just is not the same, I think its the polutants in the air.

So, to replace the effects of Marijuana the medication i choose is Geodon,keep in mind it takes a good 3 months to feel the full effects. Good luck to you!

Eric

9/19/08 3:39am

This day and age saying you can't afford your medications just dosen't fly. If you have little to no prescription drug coverage, talk with the doctor or psychiatrist writing those scripts to check the wal-mart prescription drug list to see if the medication is there before writing that script.

The majority of the older, tried and true medications are there in a generic form at the cost of $4.00 a month per script. Of course you are not going to get the latest ones, but sure beats using drugs and alcohol to try and control the symptoms and last I knew even a six pack of beer costs more than $4.00.

Puppet

9/19/08 8:34am

I found a site listing wal-mart 4$ meds...grain of salt tho..need to call to verify.

Antidepressant
Amitriptyline 100MG TAB
Amitriptyline 10MG TAB
Amitriptyline 25MG TAB
Amitriptyline 50MG TAB
Amitriptyline 75MG TAB
Citalopram 20MG TAB
Citalopram 40MG TAB
Doxepin HCL 100MG CAP
Doxepin HCL 10MG CAP
Doxepin HCL 25MG CAP
Doxepin HCL 50MG CAP
Doxepin HCL 75MG CAP
Fluoxetine 10MG CAP
Fluoxetine 20MG CAP
Fluoxetine 40MG CAP
Nortriptyline 10MG CAP
Nortriptyline 25MG CAP
Paroxetine 10MG TAB
Paroxetine 20MG TAB
Trazodone 100MG TAB
Trazodone 150MG T

Anti-anxiety
Buspirone 5MG
Buspirone 10MGAB

Antipsychotic
Fluphenazine 1MG TAB
Haloperidol 0.5MG TAB
Haloperidol 1MG TAB
Haloperidol 2MG TAB
Haloperidol 5MG TAB
Lithium Carb 300MG CAP
Prochlorperazine 10MG TAB
Thioridazine 25MG TAB
Thioridazine 50MG TAB
Thiothixene 2MG CAP

Anxiety
Hydroxyzine HCL10MG/5ML SYP
Seizure
Carbamazepine 200MG TAB

Gina

9/23/08 9:43am

Eric,
Thanks for the list. However, not all generics work the same for all people. I recently discovered this after our pharmacist recommended the new generic for Depakote. My son is 27 and is in relatively good control. However, after a week on the generic, he began rapid cycling and dark moods. After two weeks, my husband who is 44, wnats to do nothing but sleep. When he's awake, he feels and looks awful, snaps at everyone and then blames me for it. He is on his way to the doc now and hopefully they can offer a sugfgestion. He sat down with me and asked if he had been worse lately. I explained that he had complained of feeling bad and not caring about anything for the past 3 weeks! He didn't see it that way! From Friday evening to Mondday morning, he probably slept over 30 hours! What a waste of a weekend!!

So while generics work for some and are a blessing cost-wise, they aren't always the solution to a stable, controlled illness!

Gina

AlexNagy

9/23/08 10:27am

I call bullocks. We don't know her families specific financial issues and I think if they could get an equivelent of Abilify in generic they would have. Try and be less belligerent and more helpful.

WEED SAVED MY LIFE

10/19/09 1:11am

I LOVE YOUR DESIRE TO HELP,BUT MOST (RE 4 MED) YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR I TRYED MOST OF 4.00 ANPSYCHOTIC/DEPRESIVE BIPOLAR MEDS, MY MED S RANGE

FROM 50.00 ON UP 1-2 $ A PILL GOTTA LOVE DRUG COMPANYS I MAKE 700 A MONTH,

LETS TALK ABOUT SIDE EFFECTS, VOMIT,SICKNESS,DIZZNESS,INTAMATE DECREASED

AND A LIST OF OTHERS .THIS IS SUCH A NEW THING,WE STILL HAVENT GOT THE

PERFECT SOLOUTION YET. RE thc POT,WEED- JUST LIKE ALL THOSE ON THAT LIST

YOU COME OFF THEM YOU SUFFER,POT THE SAME IT TAKES 2-3 WEEKS FOR BUILD UP

IT CAN BE ABUSED,THATS WHY A PILL,OIL,DRUG NEEDS TO BE ON THE MARKET TO

BALANCE THIS PROBLEM.EVERY PERSON CHEMICAL,LIFESTYLE.DIET,GENETIC,AND

TRIGGERS(JOB LOSS ,DIVORCE,DEATH) ALL PLAY A ROLL IN BEHAVIORS,I THINK A

GOOD DIET,FAMILY SUPPORT,NON-ABUSE OF THC,COUNSELING INTO CONTORL OF

EMOTIONS,IS THE BEST FORMULA FOR ME AND MOST BIPOLAR PEOPLE.DONT BS YOURSELF,ONE THING POT DID ELEVATE FOR ME WAS THE SUCIDAL IDDATION=REPETATIVE THOUGHTS WANTING TO KILL MYSELF,IF IM DEAD I CANT TAKE ANY MED,SO THATS A BIGGIE,,,,WEIGH IT MOST BIPOLAR PEOPLE CANT LIVE WITH OTHERS ,ESPECIALLY IF FAMILY IS NOT PROACTIVE IN THE HEALTH PLAN.I DONT RECCOMEND THC FOR CHILD/YOUNG ADULTS..ALCOHOL (O )PERIOD..BAD 4 ALL B.P ALL MEDS QUIT WORKING AFTER A TIME PERIOD LIKE ALL MEDS ,YOU HAVE TO

CHANGE YOUR REGIMENT,AND MEDS REQIURE BLOOD TEST,TOXIC LIVER BUILD UP

POT DOES NOT DAMAGE ORGANS IF INGESTED PROPERLY,IE FOOD,OIL THAT MY 47

YEAR THINKING AND DEALING WITH THIS ILLNESS...I OPINE

Anonymous

9/23/08 7:32am

I have found the opposite but most people I know don't stop taking their meds. Maybe that was the problem not the pot. I have been bipolar since I was 12 and have been on and off meds. I am my best on meds no matter what other habits I have.

deerme

9/23/08 7:54am

I don't understand it either, I have a son that was diagnosed in 2006 with Bi-Polar Manic & Schizophrenia and he smokes pot all the time. If he doesn't smoke pot, all his symptoms come out, but when he smokes pot, he is a lot nicer. I don't understand what the pot does.

Meryl Biszick

9/23/08 9:00am

I don't understand why the marijuana would do this to your husband, or if it's really this that's causing the problem. I've never heard of marijuana causing anyone to get manic - just the opposite! My husband is also bipolar, although he's without the other disorders your husband suffers. While he does take lamictal, he's been smoking pot most of his adult life - and thank goodness he does. It calms him down, and takes the edge off of the irritation and anger caused by mania. His pdoc knows he smokes and says she has several patients who do and that they also get relief from it.

Get in touch with the manufacturer of abilify and get on their compassionate program - you'll get the med for free. Sounds like your spouse and your family could benefit.

krychick

9/23/08 9:21am

Is there anyone else who notices an increase in symptoms after smoking or am I just crazy? If someone has an article or a personal experience story I could show him to prove that there is a connection between pot and increased symptoms I would be forever grateful.

Hi there dear lady,

First, my heartfelt sympathies for your family situation. I have BP myself and can see how it can ravage the atmosphere at home. Good luck to you and yours and I wish you every blessing.

I am sorry to say that I am not the person who will give you a story that will "prove" to your husband the bad connection between his BP symptoms and his smoking. Frankly I don't think there is anyone here who can do that. I think you could research a lot of articles and opinion posts/blogs that would agree with you and support this position. I actually have a friend at work who is convinced that smoking pot is the root of all of her boyfriend's problems with mood swings, even though he is not "officially" BP.

However, I wanted to point out that not all people react to medications in the same manner. Whenever my pDoc gives me something new I tend to research it, and 100% of the time I find equal numbers of people for whom the medicine has saved or ruined their lives. Every medicine! Many feel that Marijuana should be used as medication, I am one of those people- only because I have seen the results in my own life. I had undiagnosed BP for many years (20) and had clinic doctor after clinic doctor call it unipolar depression, give me an antidepressant and send me on my way, off into a manic episode. After many years of this, many lost jobs, relationships, hospitalization and one suicide attempt, I decided to give up searching for answers and try to fight the beast myself. I used yoga to help me relax and also smoked marijuana. I had been an on and off marijuana user (also light, occasional drinker and no other drugs) from when I was younger (I am 40 now), but this time I was using strictly as a medication, a small pinch of it in a pipe three times a day to help with anxiety and also noticed it really helped with racing/intrusive thoughts. Frankly it was not complete remission of symptoms in any way, but it was more relief than I had from antidepressants, and honestly, it helped me to get through my life day to day, which unmedicated with BP is hard to do, as you can see with your husband.

Six months ago I finally received a proper diagnosis and also started on some new medications. I was open with my pDoc about my marijuana use. She was not overly concerned about it and said that she has some patients that use pot successfully as an adjunct to treatment (though not recommended by her, of course) and some who can not and must cease using pot recreationally or otherwise. Sounds like your hubby is of the latter kind. I can also sympathize with your medication problems- I was prescribed Lamictal which was a $40 copay a month until it finally went generic recently. It's hard to complain- $40 compared to $400 for Abilify, but we are a blue collar family and to us, $40 for ONE of the several I take now is rough.

At any rate, if I were you I would try to talk to him about his marijuana use and ask him how it makes him feel inside after use, and more to the point why is he using it? If it is an escape route, then maybe it is a problem. You also mentioned he drinks alcohol- perhaps that also might be a part of the problem too. One thing I have noticed since being diagnosed is that sometimes what I am feeling on the inside is not necessarily what my family sees on the outside. I might feel alert and on point while they might see me as hyperactive and obsessive. It's a perspective thing. You could tell him how you perceive it from your end. Your husband may be feeling better inside but seem worse on the outside, which IMHO would require medical intervention.

I hope you can find a way out of this dilemma.

Sincerely,

:) krychick

Anonomous

9/23/08 9:21am

I seriously don't think its the marijuana, its just your husbands excuse to let this disease take over and do what he pleases. Have you ever smoked the effects of marijuana are very calming, and your behavior shows. Marijuana changed my life to. I was an avid smoker every day coming home from a stressful work enviroment in the medical field and having troubles with my husband, then we tuned in and then tuned out ( we discovered marijuana, or at least rediscovered it together ). Our relationship improved we talked shared ideas, went out and enjoyed life together as if we were high school sweethearts. Life seemed more pretty and problems were made aware and solved quickly , then I had to stop and the stress came back and so did the marital problems, and my anger. I have to pop pills now in order to be calm something I hate because i hate pills. I think your husbands behavior is not from marijuana but from drinking and not being on meds. You just don't stop taking these meds, being apart of the medical field has put me on both side of the fence, find a program to help pay for these medications, and lighting up from a true marijuana smoker does not display such a behavior as the one you explained in your comment or question. People tend to label this plant as awful, most of your precious medications are plant derived. ITS JUST A PLANT. Use it to your full advantage, channel peaceful and pleasant things while he is smoking, turn the tables. Marijuana is a great medicinal plant, and if he just cant behave then maybe he needs greater help than you or a plant can offer.

luvmybabies

9/23/08 9:41am

I am a woman living with Bipolar, and I have a friend who smokes pot to treat her bipolar and it seems to work great. I myself do not like pot so I do not use it to treat my symptoms, but my girlfriend loves pot and I swear, she is so calm after she gets high and she is much better when she uses pot. So it's very strange to hear your story where your husband gets worse while smoking pot? I suspect that it's not the pot that is making him worse, I suspect it is the alcohol for sure that is causing his severe symptoms, and I am 99% sure about this. Ask him if he is willing to give up the alcohol and just try the pot.

Good Luck.

Mattsmom

9/23/08 9:56am

Hello,

My son (age 20, BP) has used marijuana since middle school to self-medicate. He is MUCH calmer immediately afterward, but I'm against its use for the days that follow. Each time his use increases, he becomes more and more lethargic with little motivation to do anything, including work. Soon after, this lethargy turns to depression (even when his meds, Tegretol and Wellbutrin, are stable) and he begins to flirt with OTHER recreational drugs, specifically opiates or cocaine, in addition to large quantities of alcohol...that's when the real problems begin. His irritability increases if he does NOT have either of the aforementioned drugs, and more and more pot is needed to calm him down from his hunger for them. My suggestion: do as others have suggested and get your husband back on whatever cocktail needed to stabilize his moods, and discourage any drinking or drugging. Good luck to you!

Anonymous

9/23/08 10:14am

AJo, I have been diagnosed with P.T.S.D, Bipolar disorder with panic disorder, although not the same as you're husband, I can tell you for a fact that alcohol is the "worst thing he can do" I have smoked pot sense I was a teen and never had any manic episode's while JUST smoking pot, however, when I started drinking thing's went bad fast, the affect's of alcohol begin in the frontal lobe of the brain and in the area's that control you're higher brain function's 'i.e.' reasoning and behavior, if you drink dally you're brain dose not have time to recover, so you 're symptom's will worsen and I'll bet $ that when he starts drinking he want's to smoke pot and if he dose not have any he'll insist on getting some even if it means driving drunk to get it. All that being said, I don't see pot as the problem, if you could somehow get him to ONLY smoke ( a few puff's at a time) I think you'll see a big difference, and of course don't give up on trying to get him back on med's, Depakote is a wonderful mood stabilizer and it also seem's to take away my desire to drink. Please don't give up on him, without someone in his life to care he will self destruct, I almost did, I thank God for my wife every day. 'God's speed' !!!!

Bounce

9/23/08 10:33am

Hi there

Did you realize that your story begins not with pot but with your husband's drinking? Just because pot is illegal, doesn't mean that legal alcohol is safer, especially for someone with bipolar. Someone who is drinking as much as your husband (even 2-3 beers per day 6-7 days a week is a lot of alcohol), with disregard for his safety and the welfare of your family, who can't stop, goes to harder substances (pot), and won't even stop drinking when it is negatively affecting his body (diabetis) is probably an alcoholic. Sharp words, I know. However, bipolar and alcoholism go hand in hand. To alcoholics, alcohol is an obsession of the mind, and an allergy of the body. It never helps with bipolar symptoms, it only makes them worse. Please encourage your husband to contact an alcohol support group in your area. It could mean the difference between life and death to him, and stability/instability for your whole family.

Lovingly,

An alcoholic bipolar

Marcia

9/23/08 10:38am

Granted your husband is suffering from bipolar disease. However, you are placing your young children in terrible danger every weekend when your husband is drinking up to 24 bottles of beer and smokes pot and is agitated and difficult. Can you take the children to a relative's home or a friend's home after they return home from school on Fridays? They are also being exposed to secondhand smoke from the pot which you do not want to happen. Please also try to find some way to obtain the medication your husband requires for everyone's benefit. Some pharm. companies have programs that pay the cost of meds for those unable to afford the high prices. Best wishes.

Marcia

POM

9/23/08 10:52am

Hello,

You do have your hands full with this one -- there is no proof that smoking pot and/or drinking alcohol adversely effect the medications used to treat mental illness. It is however a wise choice to assume that this behavior is mood-altering in, and of itself -- don't risk compromising the effacacy of the medication therapy.

Problem is, with your husband's med therapy suspended, he can only behave like a pot-smoking, beer-drinking, mentally challenged individual -- we don't see either of these intoxicants (alcohol/marijuana) in any drug regimen common to the treatment of BP, or any other mental illness -- not a good idea.

I am 60, Bipolar and have been drinking beer and smoking marijauna for many, many years. My high and low periods reflect only my waffling with regard to my medications -- when I stop the meds, I turn into Mr. Hyde.

I am on seroquel as a stand alone treatment, have been for six years and would never go without. I would do everything possible to secure access to my medication -- after two suicide attempts (both while off the medication) I know I cannot live without med therapy. Get him back on the meds asap -- that he was stable once speaks volumes. You have no answers to your questions unitll he/you restart his prescrption treatment -- don't wait too long.

POM

9/23/08 10:54am

Hello,

You do have your hands full with this one -- there is no proof that smoking pot and/or drinking alcohol adversely effect the medications used to treat mental illness. It is however a wise choice to assume that this behavior is mood-altering in, and of itself -- don't risk compromising the effacacy of the medication therapy.

Problem is, with your husband's med therapy suspended, he can only behave like a pot-smoking, beer-drinking, mentally challenged individual -- we don't see either of these intoxicants (alcohol/marijuana) in any drug regimen common to the treatment of BP, or any other mental illness -- not a good idea.

I am 60, Bipolar and have been drinking beer and smoking marijauna for many, many years. My high and low periods reflect only my waffling with regard to my medications -- when I stop the meds, I turn into Mr. Hyde.

I am on seroquel as a stand alone treatment, have been for six years and would never go without. I would do everything possible to secure access to my medication -- after two suicide attempts (both while off the medication) I know I cannot live without med therapy. Get him back on the meds asap -- that he was stable once speaks volumes. You have no answers to your questions unitll he/you restart his prescrption treatment -- don't wait too long.

AlexNagy

9/23/08 11:01am

I have to agree with the majority of the posts on here, it is probably not the pot. You also mentioned that before he went back to smoking pot he started drinking again. That could just as much be a cause as the pot, even more so since there is clincal proof, to my knowledge, that alcohol does increase belligerence whereas pot just mellows everyone out, well almost everyone.

smdb

9/23/08 11:55am

The doctors diagnosed me as being bipolar in 1995 after I bottomed out and tried to commit suicide (almost successfully). I used to always drink -some, but not all of the time. But in 1994, unbeknownst to me I went through a manic episode where I did a great deal of heavy drnkiing, drugging, and sleeping around indiscrimnately. I was highly self-destructive. When I finally bottomed out, I was diagnosed. However, this did not stop me from smoking pot or taking the occasional drink. The one thing that I really, really struggled with were my constant changes in mood. I always described myself as being on a wave of emotion -or waves. I felt like my emotions were like being on a roller coaster. The ups and downs, highs and lows were severe and I wouod cycle this way all day every day. Then, one day, my psychiatrist mentioned to me that it was likely due to the pot and that I should stop smoking it. "Oh No!!!!!" I said. And I justified my pot use by sayhing that it actually made me feel better. My pdoc explained that although that may be so that it provides only a temporary fix and drops me like a hot rock after the high. Well, I convinced myself that she was wrong, of course. Some years went by and finally one day I decided to stop smokiing pot. To my surprise, I found that my pdoc was quite right. Once I stopped smoking and the marijuana left my system for good, I stabilized and was even able to see very clearly why pot smoking is not a good thing -FOR ANYBODY. Bear in mind that I smoked pot for more than 20 years and did not see the harm in it -that is until I got clean. Then I realized that it is probably the single most insidious drug in the universe. This is because the addictive qualities of it are not apparent to the person who smokes it nor does that person see how this stuff affects (infects) their life and those of the people who live with him/her. The smoke clouds their mind and their vision and all they know is that when they are high they feel good. I have been off of pot long enough now so that I do not remember the last time I got high. I know it has been a minimum of eight years. My husband continues to smoke pot and stays high as much as he possibly can and he tragically does not see how this addiction as stolen the core of his personality and his life. It is my continued prayer that he get off of this stuff and face and deal with the issues in himself and his life that cause him to want to escape. I hope this helps you. This is concrete. I am almost 60 years old and I started getting high when I was 15 and stopped somewhere between 45 and 50. I know what I am talking about. Smoking pot does not help anything. It only makes a bad situation worse and the tragedy of it is that it makes the person getting high blind to the destruction.

smdb

krychick

9/25/08 3:20pm

I read your post and had to say I was a bit perplexed- you stated that since you got "clean" from pot you understood why smoking pot is a bad idea "FOR ANYBODY".

Please, I do not mean to sound offensive, but when I read posts like yours I think to myself there is no faith like the faith of a convert. I too have been smoking pot for 20+ years without a problem- legal, social, or otherwise. I have not continuously smoked it, but I can say that the times I have smoked it compared to the times I have not smoked, the difference in my moods and personality long term (not just while "under the influence") was vast. I was much more calm and socially correct during the periods while I was smoking. I had less angry and had no rages or outbursts. I was able to parent more effectively because I had MUCH more patience. I was a better wife to my husband because the racing thought had receded some and I had space in my mind to listen to him and to care about his life too. Minimal amounts of marijuana have provided this relief. I was able to hold down jobs for longer periods while smoking. I can say with certainty that smoking pot has only brought benefit to my life, much more than any prescription ever has. My one regret, of course, is that the illegal nature of it forces me to participate in illegal behavior, which I would otherwise avoid.

I am glad you found a solution which worked in your own life and am happy that you shared it, but I would caution all of us to think about making such blanket statements. They can seem judgmental and inflammatory, and can be off putting. I think we are all here for an open dialogue, not to agree with everyone, all the time.

Blessings,

:) krychick

itllendintears

9/23/08 12:15pm

I'm very sorry to read this experience. I can relate to it in many ways. Sad to say, my bipolar husband could not see the connections between daily marijuana use and his increased depression and rebound anxiety. He would smoke several times a day, first thing in the morning, all day, until just before bed and he would usually keep up this habit for 6 months until he was so depressed that he wanted to or attempted to commit suicide and needed to be admitted for in-patient treatment at a psychiatric hospital. This happened 3 times in our 4 year marriage, so pretty much, once a year.

I saw the patterns and connections because I was an observer who was not in the midst of it. Sometimes he appreciated that because it made me understanding and compassionate of his moods without him even having to tell me he was feeling manic or severely depressed. But, other times he felt controlled and closely scrutinized because I knew him so well and I wanted to help him and warn him. He said he didn't want me to psycho-analyze him, but you're sort of forced to when you're in that position. You feel like they're too sick to get well, so you need to take over until they're better since if they're using drugs every day, obviously they don't even know what's good for themselves. But, that doesn't always come across to them very well.

Anyway, I know lots of bipolar friends who don't use marijuana and they've had success managing their illness, so there is hope, but he does need to stop mixing drugs and alcohol - chemicals - with his medications - other chemicals. Or relying only on drugs and alcohol - depressants - instead of meds.

Maybe finding studies about how marijuana is linked to contributing to mental illness might help him to not want to aggravate his condition or contribute to his children following his pattern and suffering the consequences? Here are links to a couple articles: http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/Cannabis-28Marijuana-29-Linked-to-Mental-Health--u2013-a-Repor-16650-1/

http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/8/3/262

Also, I wanted to tell you; my bipolar friends have helped me a lot to determine what is the illness and what is personal choice, and I hope you are realize that you are not responsible for EVERYTHING. Most of us try to take on their mental and physical health, yet we are not doctors, we take on their spirituality, but we are not God, we take on the role of parent, friend, nurse, caretaker, everything and it can be too much. Some of it you need to make his responsibility and allow him to find his path in getting well.

I'm sure you're doing an amazing job being a wife and mother and caretaker, but I'm sure you're also tired.

Maybe you can set up some boundaries, instead of trying to convince him of you're way of thinking so that he'll change which he may never see your point of view and you'll just be battling forever; maybe tell him you don't feel comfortable with it and you'd like him to respect that since you share a life and a home and want to give the best to your children. Then ask him to decide a plan for himself that will enable him to respect that. Make it his job to do that. Do you know what I mean? I don't mean this disrespectfully to you or your husband. I just know I tried to take on the world and read a million books on bipolar and talked to professionals and did all the work that actually my spouse should've been doing. I had all the knowledge he needed to seek. I had a different set of self-help books I needed to read for myself. Haha!

I hope you know what I mean, and I'm sure you love your husband very much and want the best for him. I know how that feels.

Hope my thoughts have been helpful in some way. Hang in there and take care of yourself too. " )

cyndeelouwho1972

9/23/08 1:23pm

Pot and BiPolar,,,,,personally I dont believe it is the POT making him go off the deep end. Correct me if I am wrong, he is using alcohol and Pot,,,not just pot alone? If he went from smoking very little to an 8th a day then I would say,,,yeah it is adversely affecting him but from what I gathered from your post, it seems as like alcohol is more of the culprit.

With that said, I also believe that smoking Pot could cause him increased anxiety and you too because of the fact that it is an illegal substance. You obviously are not ok with his choice and I would assume it is because you have two young boys to look after and a drug charge could seriously put authorities into your family dynamincs which could end with children being removed from the household (depending on which state if in the US) Now this increased anxiety will of course trigger mood swings. It's a domino effect. Even if he wasn't anxious about having pot around the house,,,,you are and he will be triggered by your agitation and anxiety.

Not everyone reacts the same on Pot and since he is drinking with it,,,,there is no way to know if the pot is bad for him. Most people smoke pot and are completely mellowed,,,,,others who will remain nameless(lol) get heart pallipatations and experience paranoia!!! Paranoia is not your run of the mill reaction to pot but it does happen! Now couple that with the fact that he already has issues!

If your husband is adament about smoking pot, then what I would ask him to do is refrain from EVERYTHING else for at least a month and keep a journal on reactions and daily status of moods. Like his own private clinical trial! lol You do the same. Then compare and come to a thought out rational conclusion as to what the effects are for him and then weigh that with the consequences, cost, family dynamics, etc....

IMO: The issue is more complex then just,,,,,prove me right,,,,,it's,,,"how much longer can I take this before I snap myself?" All the research and advice in the world is great for comparisson but it doesn't necessarily fit for your particular situation. You and your family are in a crytical stage that needs immediate attention. Your juggling alot of different emotions too and I'm happy to see you reaching out to others. It helps to talk to others who can relate. Just don't loose sight of the immediate problem,,,,which is he is out of control...... How do you assist him in getting back into control???? You can't control him or his decisions but you can help him come to better conclusions. Drinking is definately not a healthy conclusion! The pot,,,,,i dont know,,,,he might be easier to deal with as a stoner! lol

Best wishes to you and yours!

cyndeelouwho1972

9/23/08 1:37pm

Pot and BiPolar,,,,,personally I dont believe it is the POT making him go off the deep end. Correct me if I am wrong, he is using alcohol and Pot,,,not just pot alone? If he went from smoking very little to an 8th a day then I would say,,,yeah it is adversely affecting him but from what I gathered from your post, it seems like alcohol is more of the culprit.

With that said, I also believe that smoking Pot could cause him increased anxiety and you too because of the fact that it is an illegal substance. You obviously are not ok with his choice and I would assume it is because you have two young boys to look after and a drug charge could seriously put authorities into your family dynamincs which could end with children being removed from the household (depending on which state if in the US) Now this increased anxiety will of course trigger mood swings. It's a domino effect. Even if he wasn't anxious about having pot around the house,,,,you are and he will be triggered by your agitation and anxiety.

Not everyone reacts the same on Pot and since he is drinking with it,,,,there is no way to know if the pot is bad for him. Most people smoke pot and are completely mellowed,,,,,others who will remain nameless(lol) get heart pallipatations and experience paranoia!!! Paranoia is not your run of the mill reaction to pot but it does happen! Now couple that with the fact that he already has issues! It just really depends on the person and the type of weed, amount smoked, etc.....

If your husband is adament about smoking pot, then what I would ask him to do is refrain from EVERYTHING else for at least a month and keep a journal on reactions and daily status of moods. Like his own private clinical trial! lol You do the same(not smoke it,,,just keep track of him! lol). Then compare and come to a well thought out rational conclusion as to what the effects are for him and then weigh that with the consequences, cost, family dynamics, etc....

IMO: The issue is more complex then just,,,,,prove me right,,,,,it's,,,"how much longer can I take this before I snap myself?" All the research and advice in the world is great for comparisson but it doesn't necessarily fit for your particular situation. You and your family are in a crytical stage that needs immediate attention. Your juggling alot of different emotions too and I'm happy to see you reaching out to others. It helps to talk to others who can relate. Just don't loose sight of the immediate problem,,,,which is he is out of control...... How do you assist him in getting back into control???? You can't control him or his decisions but you can help him come to better conclusions. If you can't help him, then at least free yourself of the guilt!

Drinking is definately not a healthy conclusion! The pot,,,,,i dont know,,,,he might be easier to deal with as a stoner! lol

Best wishes to you and yours!

Star

9/23/08 1:38pm

I have Bi polar and I used Marijuana to Stop Smoking Cigeretts and Drinking as much. Marijuana Has saved my life I dont get the "munchies" Ive lost weight...Im not sick to my stomach as much from the meds. I take Cymbalta.... what would be good would be if the fed's would let us have Hemp oil that would help people like me that has COPD.

Stick with it it will help

Anonymous

9/23/08 2:22pm

I am sorry to disappoint you, but pot, by itself improves my disposition and my sleeping habits. Marijuana & alcohol, however, is the worst combination. I gave up alcohol a long time ago, and my pdoc won't let me do the other. From my experience alcohol is the real problem. Also, it's easier to drink secretly than to smoke secretly. Your spouse might try lamictil (lamotrigine) or lithium, a very cheap antipsychotic.

krychick

9/25/08 10:39pm

Definitely agree. Can't drink and smoke. Bad, bad things happen to me when I did when I was younger.

Miriah

9/23/08 3:47pm

Check with the pharmaceutical companies. They have programs for people who cannot afford their medicine. Sometimes you can get it free from them.

Abott makes Depakote. ----

http://www.rxassist.org/pap-info/company_detail.cfm?CmpId=65

Bristol-Myers Squibb makes Abilify ----

http://www.bms.com/static/patient_assistance/data/programs.html

Diana

9/23/08 4:42pm

I have tried to tell my 15 year old granddaughter that smoking pot makes you depressed, thank you so much for writing your story. I read all the stories and right after they smoke they are calm but after they come down off the high they become very depressed people. She was very aggressive to me and got in trouble at school, alterative school. She has not smoked in 6 months and I finally have my happy granddaughter back again. I used to smoke and would quit and the last time I smoked I was so nervous I couldn't believe the effect that it had on me. I finally quit thinking so much and became a positive person when I wasn't smoking that people just don't realize the long term effect. The more you smoke the more you want, it really is a bad habit but no one will believe this until they finally get their life worry free so they won't want the few hours of being high. People with cancer are given pot to increase their eating but I have't heard of a Doctor precribing it for depression. My son had to quit and he hasn't had a out burst or (fit) in 2 years, but he still doesn't believe me. He hasn't had broncitis any in the past 2 years either. My granddaughter's friend who is 15 is miseable all the time. She says the only time she is happy is when she is smoking so she can't go to friend's house because no other parent will let her smoke it in their house. She also weights 170 pounds, 5'4" because she stays hungry after she smokes. I believe some people can smoke and most people can't because they require more and more. The more you smoke the more depress you become so it takes more to keep you calm. Also my exhusband just die with lung cancer, the doctor said the pot smoking was worse on his lungs than just smoking, big health risk. I hope all the other responds help you but yours really did help me, thank you so much.

DC

9/23/08 10:01pm

Please go to Alanon, and encourage your husband to seek treatment for a co-occuring substance abuse problem. Sounds like he may be concrete in his denial of addiction. If he chooses to continue, you may have tough decisions to make for you and your family.

Sincerely, DC

Anonymous

9/23/08 10:04pm

I have seen my husband a friend at the time trying to use pot to change his strange mood one night it did not happen. People have to understand Pot is not a Medication it is a Illegal drug. My husband is on Abilfy for SZ on a daily basis he also smokes some pot used to be daily. What has keep him out of the Hospital for 4 years is not the pot it is me making sure he takes is Medication on a daily basis. He has not since he lived and been married fliped out and gone to the hospital. He likes to blame people for his hospital stays but it is not people it is his illness and not taking his medication daily. It bugs me when he is on it with his dumb look I cannot even get in a needed argument with him inless I bug him 10 times. I would rather he be himself.

Sharia

9/23/08 10:12pm

I do understand what you are going through. My husband has not be formally diagnosed with bipolar, but I am a counselor and I know the signs. Our marriage counselor also said the same thing. When my husband smoked, he was very flighty, angered easily, his sleep patterns were very chaotic. It had to come to a point where he would have to serve jail time if he were caught with it in his system for a third and me threatening to leave because I could not stand not knowing how he would react. Once he stopped, his mood leveled out. He began to sleep more soundly. What does your husband think of counseling and alternative healing methods? Marijuana and alcohol were my husband's coping mechanism. Yoga and/or Tai Chi are helpful in relaxing the mind and exercise the body as well as the spirit. I will stay prayerful for you. Ultimately, it is up to him to have the will to change. Peace to you!

Anonymous

9/23/08 11:39pm

Everyone keeps forgetting the fact that pot or alcohol are not the main issue when it comes to his moods it is that he's not taking his meds he is going to be even angrier along with the alcohol. I dont believe it's the pot, pot mellows you out. I am BP and smoke pot because thats the only thing that slows my racing thoughts so I am able to have a conversation.

Anonymous

9/24/08 12:03am

I have been diagnosed Schizoeffective with bipolar as well as OCD for the last five years.I also have been on and off of meds due to health insurance reasons, and it is so hard. Please understand that your husband may see what he is doing to the family and himself and that in it self may make his symptoms worse. The guilt can be overwhelming. I would tend to believe it is probably the alcochol not the mj that is exacerbating his symptoms. When I have been atmy worst manic state and had not slept for days mj was presented to me by a friend who knew I did not smoke but was desperate to see me get some relief. It did wonders. Everything should be in moderation of course.

I will pray for your family. Good luck.

Danielle

9/24/08 3:11am

I understand what you are saying but I don't think it is the pot that he is smoking making his symptoms worse rather than the beer he is drinking. With diabetes, when blood sugars shoot up, you will have violent episodes you are talking about too. Beer is full of alcohol sugars. You should check this out online as to how much extra sugar he is getting because of it and keep a close check on his blood sugars. Check them about 30 mins and then an hour after he drinks a beer or 2 or 3 or 4.

My father is a diabetic and until he got his under control he could be unbearable, not as bad as you are talking as he did not have the bipolar too. Get him off the beer/alcohol first and see how much difference it makes. Then work on the pot, you could use calculations of how much he spends on this but he couldn't afford his abilify as a possible way. But remember one day and one thing at a time!

AJo1231

9/24/08 9:58am

I know full well how alcohol causes anger...trust me on this one...I have the holes in the walls to prove it. But what I was trying to say was that even when he drinks every weekend he still is not as bad as he is after he's smoked pot. Of course he's mellow when he first smokes but hours and days afterward he is, for lack of a better word, a monster.

And just to clarify...he doesn't smoke in front of our kids and they have no idea that he does it. He goes to our master bathroom and turns on the fan so they are not even exposed to the smoke.

Yes, I have tried to talk to him about all of his addictions but he sees nothing wrong with anything he's doing and refuses to believe it is hurting him in any way. He thinks I'm just trying to take from him the things he enjoys which couldn't be further from the truth. I wish the pot could do something to help him. I'd be all for it. I see him suffering and want so badly to help him. But I see the effects and I know that it is keeping him sick, paranoid and mean.

I'm not trying to be proven right here...I just know that if there was someone other than me who had nothing to gain by telling him that pot wasn't good for bipolars then he would be more inclined to listen to that person so in my desperation I turned to you guys to see if anyone out there had a personal story or something that could help me convince him that pot and beer are not the answer.

The good news is that he got a new job and with the new job comes better insurance so hopefully he'll be back on his meds by the end of October.

Thanks to all who responded. Your personal stories, well wishes and prayers are greatly appreciated. I didn't mean to offend the smokers out there.

Have a Blessed Day!

POM

9/24/08 10:06am

Someone mentioned Lithium as an alternative -- good idea -- and there is also an organic form of Lithium -- may help.

Regardless, you must get this guy back on drug therapy, because until then the pot and beer issue is a mute point. You owe it to yourselves to find some way to come up with the cost of his medication. Once you get him on track medicinally, get to therapy -- sliding scale couples won't cost you an arm and a leg. If you took the cost of his bud and his Budweiser you would be halfway there. If you both smoke cigarettes and quit that habit, you would be in the ballpark.

End the denial, yours and his, get together as a couple and give this mental illness the priority it deserves -- doing nothing will do exactly that.

POM

9/24/08 10:08am

Someone mentioned Lithium as an alternative -- good idea -- and there is also an organic form of Lithium -- may help.

Regardless, you must get this guy back on drug therapy, because until then the pot and beer issue is a mute point. You owe it to yourselves to find some way to come up with the cost of his medication. Once you get him on track medicinally, get to therapy -- sliding scale couples won't cost you an arm and a leg. If you took the cost of his bud and his Budweiser you would be halfway there. If you both smoke cigarettes and quit that habit, you would be in the ballpark.

End the denial, yours and his, get together as a couple and give this mental illness the priority it deserves -- doing nothing will do exactly that.

POM

9/24/08 12:02pm

Someone mentioned Lithium as an alternative -- good idea -- and there is also an organic form of Lithium -- may help, although Depakote and Abilify are pretty nasty, heavy-lifters. I personally, after years of failures, am on Seroquel and Cymbalta -- spendy, but worth every cent.

Regardless, you must get this guy back on drug therapy, because until then the pot and beer issue is a mute point. You owe it to yourselves to find some way to come up with the cost of his medication. Once you get him on track medicinally, get to therapy (sliding scale couples) it may cost you an arm and a leg, but again, ask yourself if it's worth it.

If you took the cost of his bud and his Budweiser you would be halfway there. If you both smoke cigarettes and quit that habit, you would be in the ballpark.

End the denial, yours and his, get together as a couple and give this mental illness the priority it deserves -- doing nothing will do exactly that.

Anonymous

9/25/08 12:28pm

I didnt want to admit it either; but the pot does make my symptoms worse. I tried for years to kid myself and say that in self medicating with pot that I was calmer. But its not true. You would have to smoke constantly; and even then it doesnt help. When I quit it took about 3 weeks for the mental cravings to stop and I started noticing that I wasnt as agitated; and my mood swings stopped almost completely. As bad as I hated to admit it there is a definate connection between smoking pot and worsening symptoms in my bipolar disorder. All you can do is stand by your husband and pray that he sees the connection. If you need someone to talk to dont hesitate to email me at scmedley1000@yahoo.com. You will be in my prayers. Hang in there. Steph

Deanna

9/25/08 10:04pm

First I want you to know, that my family felt the same way except I was only drinking, and then would have to be back on abilify for a 6 month run. Any kind of street drug, alchohol, mixed with brain chemical medication is deadly. I know thaat it is hard to deal with. But, you need to get your husband into a long term hospital or facility, so he can be dually diagnosed. To take care of yoour situation with your children. I'm speaking from a bipolar prospective.. If he won't go then you go and try to have him committed throough the courts, and then he has no choice. HE will have to go. And get some help. They do offer family counseling as well, so people can understand things a little better. However, I was not fortuate to have my family atttend such things, but I have been diagnosed since 1995, and have had no breaks in 5 or 6 years. I've been on the same meds for 13 years now and am stable and well.

Sean

10/13/08 12:25am

I started smoking pot at 22 (fairly short experience), I also had a bit of a drinking problem from 18-21. I am 22 now and finally noticed the connection to my horrible mood and pot. It ruined my life really I lost a lot of good friends and a few good girlfriends who just couldn't put up with my irritability. I always saw them as the problem and never would ever blame the pot. I was never even a heavy smoker... at my highest (no pun intended) phase of smoking I smoked maybe two or three nights a week. My highest phase of smoking was also the one where I got the lowest... it takes about a week for the negative swing of pot to come into play. It made me really impatient, insecure, jealous, controlling, manipulative, angry, sad... you name it I was it. I knew something was wrong but I thought it was the relationship I was in. After losing that relationship I fell into a horrible state of depression and decided (thankgod) to quit smoking pot. Slowly.... I started to recover. It is now about four months later and I still feel like I am not back to who I was before I started smoking but I can look back at myself then and see how horribly what I did back then hurt the people around me. I also can think much more clearly and don't take everything so personally. I've never really felt bi-polar before but .... well after that experience I am considering that I might be. The weird thing is I can see where your husband is coming from... I always felt like I was fine when I was smoking. It happens so gradually that you just don't notice it and you think it is you. I really feel now that there was this... thing that invaded my mind and almost like a parasite or something tried to take over... and it wasn't the happy something that I thought it was. Plus marijuana is DEFFINANTLY addicting.. even knowing what I know now part of me wants to smoke still. Which to me is scary as hell. I hope he sees the light and finds his way out of the darkness... because it really is a dark dark place. I learned a lot from both the positive and negative aspects of weed but I am done.

dark angel

10/24/08 10:17pm

i, when i was younger smoked for a while and i payed for it when i got older; i had a severe bout of psychosis for a while and it came and went just like the pot.

but i feel that it was the pot that eventually caused it and am sorry i ever smoked it! i hated the feeling of such severe psychosis; it was like a severe case of schizophrenia, but it only lasted a short while. so stopping pot smoking will in fact make the symptoms disapear.

thanks for listening

sherri

mhumphrey1974

11/11/08 2:31pm

I smoked marijuana everyday for a year and it actually changed my life. I am no longer on my medication, I was on depakote and lexapro for the longest time. My crnp wanted to put me on abilify, but i refused and self medicated with marijuana, a healthy diet, no alcohol, and took fish oil and flaxseed oil pills to get me where i am today. I quit smoking marijuana. I have a positive outlook on life now and my symptoms have not acted up.. We'll see how it goes. Just wanted to tell you my experience.

Erica E

1/ 8/09 2:12am

I am bipolar as well as a few other disorders and am prescribed Depakote, Mirtazipine, and Seroquel. I have pulled myself off of the medication and am "self medicating". Marijuana can cause adverse effects in all people, not just those with mental instability. For some, marijuana helps. For others, it can be a complete disaster. I know that when I am high, I am a completely different person. However, people with BiPolar Disorder can become easily addicted. When a person is going through the "withdrawls" is usually when you notice the instability.

Anonymous

3/30/09 12:47pm

my father is bipolar with the scizophrenic tendencies also and he has stopped his meds because he feels he doesn't need them when he drinks it does bring his symptoms out worse and full force he is all depressed and angry and yells and throws things as for the pot he doesn't do it he has tried it and doesn't like it but he does use meth or cocaine which also makes him worse i grew up with this in the house as a child it is hard on kids and now i am dealing with bipolar in my self and in my 8 year old son. I dont know your situation just what you wrote but as for as affording the meds have you tried getting help like medicaid or SSI my father and son both are on SSI and they cover the meds my father is supose to be on the abilify also my son didn't to well on it so he is on another form of medication. i hope this helps you

sad house wife

7/27/10 2:27pm

I thought I was the only wife and mother out there with this problem... my husband is so Bi Polar, and there is no way of ever getting him to admitt it, or god forbid go to any type of counciling. He has been a pot smoker ever since I have known him, he never drank alcohol, now he does both everyday, and he is just putting himself into deeper and deeper hole! He does go to work everyday, but as soon as he gets home BAM, he starts drinking beer, sometimes a nip of vodka with the beer, and sits up in his room and smokes his pipe all night until he eats dinner up there, then goes to sleep! His anger is so awful, he blames me or one of our three kids for everything, and just yells and yells, I always made excuses for him about the pot smoking, I said "it's a natural medication, and it's better than man made drugs for him" but now that he is drinking with it, Man he is just turning into a nothing! My babies are saying, "Mom dad is drunk again" and they wont even have their friends in the house because they fear he will yell infront of them! I am so lost, I have tryed the therapy thing that did not work, because I am so co dependent, and he does love us all very much, but Man, how much longer can this go on??? I am starting to loose it and fall into a depresion, and certainly the kids can't live without one of being sain. If anyone has any advice except "devorce him" please feel free to answer my call for help. thanks...

sad house wife

7/27/10 2:27pm

I thought I was the only wife and mother out there with this problem... my husband is so Bi Polar, and there is no way of ever getting him to admitt it, or god forbid go to any type of counciling. He has been a pot smoker ever since I have known him, he never drank alcohol, now he does both everyday, and he is just putting himself into deeper and deeper hole! He does go to work everyday, but as soon as he gets home BAM, he starts drinking beer, sometimes a nip of vodka with the beer, and sits up in his room and smokes his pipe all night until he eats dinner up there, then goes to sleep! His anger is so awful, he blames me or one of our three kids for everything, and just yells and yells, I always made excuses for him about the pot smoking, I said "it's a natural medication, and it's better than man made drugs for him" but now that he is drinking with it, Man he is just turning into a nothing! My babies are saying, "Mom dad is drunk again" and they wont even have their friends in the house because they fear he will yell infront of them! I am so lost, I have tryed the therapy thing that did not work, because I am so co dependent, and he does love us all very much, but Man, how much longer can this go on??? I am starting to loose it and fall into a depresion, and certainly the kids can't live without one of being sain. If anyone has any advice except "devorce him" please feel free to answer my call for help. thanks...

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