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Personality/Illness

By bipolarbear Monday, September 22, 2008

Robin's thread about being judgemental made me question where do we separate what we see as our personality and our illness? When I say take responsibility for your actions, I think what I mean is--those actions you have the power to control. I know when I am really manic and my reasoning ability is impaired, how can I control myself? But then I live with embarrassment/guilt about events that happened--is it really warranted that I beat myself up? I see my personality as a relatively solid group of traits/likes/hobbies/morals/spirituality--that is not my illness. I always think when I meet someone super unsympathetic, "This unpleasant person is not caused by the illness, this is the unpleasant person they would be if the illness did not exist." Then you get into do they have a personality disorder? I could probably go round here again for awhile, what does anybody else think?

My thought on genetics.
9/22/08 9:21pm

I have just been re-daignosed with bipolar after getting a new Dr. The old psychiatrist had come to the conclusions (unbenownst to me) that I had Borderline Personality Disorder - only found that out when went to see my GP and she told me that's what the P-Doc had said.

Now I have seen a new Dr who is furious about that - why?

Because I have insight into my mental illness issues (and everyday probelms and situations as well), because I don't blame everything on everyone else (myself more likely) and because I have been successful depsite any mental illness - I push myself (sometimes too hards) whereas someone with Bordeline would not push, fail, and then blame whoever.

This misdiagnosis was put down to "childhood neglect" issues - that was certainly not the case - had issues but never neglected - always one parent there to give support - and mostly a great deal of support.

As to other people - it's all too easy when you know a lot about mental illness to start labelling others.

But, when a problem arises in the workplace, or wherever, I very quickly think - am I to blame, has my illness something to do with it? Then, like you said, I sit back and look at the other person - sometimes it's them, sometimes it's me, but most times it's not bipolar that is the issue - it can be my pigheadedness, or it can be soemone else's inability to be upfront about issues in the workplace, or whatever. I try not to define people by the categories that are so readily available, just like I trust that people wont define me by my illness (the eternal optimist on that one!).

I think sometimes an opinion can be posted here that seems to be judgemental, but is actually just an opinion. There seems to be lots of meds/no meds stuff happening here. The thing we need to realise is that we are all different, but if we have something to say from our own experience that may be of assistance (or not - it's up to the person with the issue to make the call) then that may not be what the person wanted to hear and is therfore judgemental - I don't think so, it's just stating things from a personal point of view.

If someone asks a question i'l try and answer it from my perspective, and if they want to discard that perspective I take no offense. I just don't want to be attacked for my personal perspective - and that has not happened to me on this site, I think it's quite an amazing resource.

Cheers

N

9/23/08 5:13am

Dear Bipolarbear,

 

one of the things that I have found necessary in my copying skill strategy is that I must not beat myself for what I have done wrong particularly under mania or depression.

 

Even when we learn very hard new skills to cope with our condition (and we can to a certain extent) there is always times when we will make mistakes because our judgement has been obfuscated by our moods. This is unavoidable.I still make these mistakes today but the difference is that I FORGIVE MYSELF and because I tell all of my friends that I have Bipolar I expect them to forgive me as well. If not well it means that they are not friends for me so I give them up. No use traing to swim against the currents.

 

However, as we try to cope we learn, over time, that the same problem/event or circumstances may arise once more. This time we may have an idea of what has happened in the past even if we are in a manic or depressed state. So this time we can try to avoid making the same mistake.

 

But always we must forgive ourselves. It is not easy to live with mood disorders and we MUST make room for forgiveness.

 

Mind you that so called normal people are capable of pretty atrocious stuff. They make huge mistakes and thing nothing of it. Everyone will make mistakes at one time in their life. It is unavoidable. CoolIn many cases us BIPOLARS seem to have a more developed consciousness, morals and guilt. This can eat us up inside so we MUST forgive ourselves and try to do better next time around. When the guilt comes to us to hurt us we can go to the mirrow look at ourselves and say:

 

"...well I was not well and I must accept that while my moods are out of order I am prone to make mistakes. So I forgive myself and try better next time around."

 

 

Alfredo

Anonymous
Lou Lou
7/23/09 8:12am

Your last statement was so profound - ""...well I was not well and I must accept that while my moods are out of order I am prone to make mistakes. So I forgive myself and try better next time around."

 

I copied it and sent it to myself and will put it nearby for those moments of relapse into a real blunder.  Life goes on even when you mess up or else you can blame your self and get in a rotten mood.  It's better to admit you messed up and just go on!

 

L

9/23/08 6:03am

I guess sometimes we need a better understanding in order to fully understand what responsibility is. Even when your totally manic or severely depressed, you have to own your words and actions.

Your partly right in that when in a total manic episode, your not in control of the crazy thoughts and actions...but your still responsible and have to own the good and the bad that came from it.

So why do we need to take responsibility? Well if we feel we have no control over any of the situations that were going on prior to or during the mania, then how can we change things in the future so that it isn't a repeat of the past? For many, its usually a medication or stress level problem.

Medication...not taking them as prescribed, missing dosages and or adding drugs and alcohol into the mix. Sometimes its not letting your psychiatrist know what other doctors are prescribing for psychical aliments that can double up medications that can flip you.

Stress....it is well known that high levels of stress can bring out the worst in us. If you are under a high level of stress on a daily bases, this can also give that little push over the edge and needs to be addressed by you, your therapist and psychiatrist.

If you decide not to own or take responsibility for your actions during these times of little to no control, then you will be the one that will keep repeating the episodes on a regular bases.

I can tell you from personal experiences that people will forgive, but not forget. If you show not only you, but the people around you that you are doing everything possible and taking responsibly for your actions and not laying blame to the illness for everything...they will be more understanding and more willing to help you.

A manic episode can shatter families and relationships with others and can cause a lot of damage. It's up to you to do everything possible not to have a instant replay of the episode and to own your part in all of it. This means making appologies and ammends to the people you may have hurt during those times. For some it may take years to get back where you were in those relationships prior to the episoide.

9/23/08 9:27am

Separating our illness from our personality is a difficult task for many people.  I try to think of my illness as only a small piece of who I am totally and try not to be defined by my illness.  When I'm doing well, this works just fine; when in depression or mania the task is not so easy.  It's difficult to retain a positive thought process when the moods swing in one direction or another.  But, probably 70 percent of the time I manage to make the separation pretty effectively.  These are the times when I'm doing well, when I take responsibility for my actions.  It's the other 30 percent of the time that I must work on.

 

I read more than I write to this site.  People's thoughts, advice and opinions are welcome here and for the most part are helpful, in my opinion.  Some comments are somewhat judgmental, but more often are an honest efforts to give a helpful and thoughtful response .  I find very few comments offensive.  

 

Every day I thank the man upstairs for giving me the skills to live with this illness the best way that I know how.  There have been many embarassing and frustrating times, but I like to think the "well" periods in my life more than compensate.

 

Thanks for your post.

 

Judy

9/23/08 12:56pm

Thanks everyone for your replies. I like to have the food for thought. I do want to clarify that I have also come to the conclusion that I am responsible for trying to manage my meds, stress and life the best I can to not have severe episodes, but I am working at not beating myself up and walking around all guilt ridden because it seems that every 6/7 years I end up in the hospital having to pick up the some of the pieces again. I just think it is cyclical but it is scary and hard to live with. Again, guys, thanks for listening and giving me input. I appreciate it. Laughing

Anonymous
Anonymous
9/25/08 8:49am

 component combined with the modeling I've received from parents both of whom are quite judgmental.  I'm not 100% as to whether my bipolarity is genetic.  I've had some years spent "serving a prison sentence for something I did not do"--my euphemism to describe where and how I lived for 9 years where the environment was not conducive to my well-being and I suffered my first serious nervous breakdown.  I know that term is kind of old-fashioned and out-dated but I rather like it...from a bygone era when the stereotypical stay-at-home mom might sip the cooking sherry to help relieve the tedium of the day.  It was in those 9 years that I learned of the stressor component my bipolarity "needs" to launch into mixed-states.

 

I strive to be very careful and keep a lid on it in light of my judgmental bent.  Why are there so many morons on this earth?  Oh, excuse me... I don't always win.  I have held a myriad of jobs since I was 18 (I don't mind adding that I'm 53) and I have never lost one, however, I think co-workers have at times scratched their heads in response to my complaints or aloofness (which I deem the means by which I maintain some distance so as not to alienate).  I'm genuinely interested in people.  I love people and hope to be around many of them before I croak.  I have to temper my frustration whenever I feel overwhelmed or when I feel as if I'm in the company of dim bulbs.  That's when I most feel prone to being judgmental and run the risk of alienating others.

9/25/08 12:52pm

I'm coming from a difference perspective in that I like myself a whole lot better when I'm hypo manic & so does my husband & the rest of the world.  I have a ton of energy & enthusiasm & get things done, etc.  I'm a happy person.  It is like a drug to me so when I start having insomnia (often) I don't want to tell my pdoc like I'm supposed to as I WANT to be back in the hypo mania again.  It is a much more interesting, creative, fun person than the "real" me who tends to be melancholy--always looking at the glass as half empty.

 

I can go for months in this hypo mania & sleep only a couple hours a night, but it is playing with fire as I can suddenly drop into a deep depression & did have an overdose after 5 mos. of this hypo mania 2 years ago so I'm not supposed to engage in it.  But I am addicted to it.

 

So, in other words, I like the symptomatic me better than the real me.

Anonymous
Anonymous
9/25/08 1:54pm

I may have missed the boat entirely, but I was addressing the issue of judgmental tendencies.  To expand on that original thought, I also think that hypersensitivity which goes along w/my frustrated/irritable mania-related symptoms, is what works to muck things up even further. 

 

Please note:  I'm with you. I love the mania and I have tons of energy as well as creativity (I tap dance) and strangers pick up on this telling me how nice it was to talk to me; how "effervescent" I am.  BUT, if I'm thwarted in my attempts to achieve things (work, school, etc.) then watch out, cuz I'll be grumpy, cry, and potentially foul-mouthed believing that others are to blame for my setback.  Placing judgments on those that I think impacted my life in a negative way.  At the risk of repeating.  I embrace mania's high but to paraphrase something I read once:  Manics even when high can be close to tears and frustration... lead to an outburst of crying.  I was that way as a child.  And always self-conscious of how people viewed me as I cried.  I thought I came off as such a baby--and hated that.  

 

I'm due to graduate in December with my B.A. in Communication Studies.  How ironic is that!

9/25/08 7:31pm

Love that Hypomanic state. I just saw my doctor and told him that my best outcome (re meds) was to be slighly elevated most of the time, not a vegetable (well I guess I think of "normal" as flat!).

He took that on board and understood completely. Why not be there if you can - it's the best for productivity etc etc.

But, if too elevated it all can get very nasty - and I guess that's where some posters are coming from some of the time and we need to be mindful of that.

Sorry to go "off topic" - but on the other hand I do believe that "slightly elevated" is where my personality sits most comfortably - I think that makes sense (does to me but not sure how it goes in translation!).

N

9/25/08 7:33pm

Oh CONGRATS on your graduation! The best medicine for me over the years has been academia - good for you and well done!

N

10/13/08 5:09pm

I have lately really thought a lot about being hypersensitive. When I look back at my childhood, just that one word explains a lot. Unfortuneately at that time I did not realize that other people do not confront the world so sensitively...now I do realize and I am trying to be aware when I get ridiculously offended by a comment someone made (that he then just promptly forgot). Some people claim that it is a positive of bipolar disorder that we can feel more deeply; I think for me it has caused more harm than good.

Anonymous
wonderlandcat
9/25/08 4:17pm

  The best response I have found is to believe the best for each person we come into contact with.  That means to consiously see that individual through eyes of mercy and compassion as we want others to see us. Understanding that regardless of the actions of that individual there is potential for change for them and for us and earnestly desiring that the torment that they are experiencing will end focuses our attention on things that could be good.

  When we expect what atother person is incapable of giving because they themselves are not able or refuse to give we become disappointed in them and ultimately in our own selves.  This attitude brings creates problems and frustration.  Their illness is seen as intentional warfare toward humanity and inexusable because we are not showing grace or mercy.

  When we realize that each or us has infirmities and iniquities that we struggle with and that we are all in this life to learn and grow then we'll be more compassionate with our own selves and with others.

  I have a visualization idea that may help when i am having a problem seeing myself or others compassionately.  I picture us as little children and sometimes even as babies because really we are all infantile in this universe.  Some are more mature than others yet compared to perfection we have a long way to go.  As a Christian I am confident that one day we will be perfect in love yet now we are all being taught about how to react with mercy and compassion if we will stop and listen to the still small voice guiding us.

7/23/09 1:30pm

I used to think the best of people until I had my second marriage end to adultry.  The first one ended the same way, but I contacted recently and he asked me to forgive him.  I hardly know him now, he's changed into a good person and what happened haunted him.

 

Now I'm putting up a shield.  Sometimes the ones you love the most can do the most damage.

 

I had so much bad stuff happen when my husband went to another, it damaged my soul, heart, image of myself.  He was 49 and she was single and 25.  She had already had an illegimate child from another married man.  So I guess she only likes unavailable men.

I got arrested on assult charges because he got her pregnant and told me when he was on ambien.  When he is on Ambien, he just says anything he thinks so here goes what he said the worst night of my life. He had an idea of how we could all live together, they in one room and no sex, ha, me in my room, the illegimate son in another, but there was a problem with my sewing room.  It would have to be moved downstairs.  I said why?  It's fine as it is.

Then he said with a smile, there may be another one on the way.  I crashed and cried out as I sat down crying out in pain like a hurt wild animal. He comforted me then.

But the next night came along and I started crying out again, so he decided to call 911.  I did not need help, I needed comfort and did not need to go into the hospital.

I was trying to get through in my mind what had happened and how it would affect me.

I tried to get the phone from him but in VA, it's against the law to do so. Then he restrained me because I still wanted to hang up the phone.  He was hurting me so I kicked him to let me go while the 911 call was still going on.  I cried out so they could hear, he is hurting me.  I said, all I want is to go to bed. So I finally got away from him and was trying to get in bed and he said, I would not get undressed, they are here.

So I went over to him and said, how could you? Then he said he was going commit me. I said, the hell, you can! Later he would deny it. But I know what I heard. I can still see the look on his face. So the police came, saw that I had accidently scratched him trying to hang up the phone. They also added in the report that I hit him in the neck and hit him behind which was untrue and he agreeded but I was taken away in hand cuffs in a police car charged with assult.  It was lovely: finger printing, no water for 4 hours, photographed and then told to go and not return to the house for 72 hours.  That day was a Friday, I was lucky I had to friends to stay with, I felt like a gypsy. Of course, my birthday was Saturday.

That was the worst birthday ever.  When I left the house, I looked in my husband's eyes and said I hope you sleep good tonight. The cop said, come along and be quiet. Later the next day I heard he called the DA to try to get the charges dropped, but the DA in charge was one who liked to nail people, not try to work things out. So I was charged with a year probation, and not allowed out of the US. I tried to get a volunteer job at the DC Botanical Gardens but my background check showed a problem.

 

So being bipolar can really affect your life in so many ways. I am waiting for a divorce from him, it was suppose to happen in April and now it is near the end of July. If it comes close to my birthday in Sept. I don't know what I will do. Because I was bipolar for 10 of our 25 years together, he no longer wanted to be intimate with me. In VA, that is abandonment. Going through a divorce is like going through a mine field. Being new to this, I was clueless alot. He was heartless, he would not move in with her and she didn't want to upset her parents if he did, so hello??? So I got to see him for 6 months and look at his sorry face, my hero, the one who I thought would never do me wrong.

 

Sorry this is so long, but it's quite a story about believing, etc, how people treat you when you are bipolar.

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By bipolarbear— Last Modified: 12/20/10, First Published: 09/22/08