The "stinking thinking" only comes when I'm in a deep deep depression and only when I'm in a deep deep depression. Otherwise, I do tell myself that things aren't as bad as they seem, that perhaps I'm making mountains out of molehills, let us see if there is another way of looking at whatever, this will pass and the positive thoughts will return, I'm okay right now and everything is okay and though I'm stressed and a bit overwhelmed it's all going to be okay if I just don't let it get the best of me (thinking).... I do, do this.
It's only when the environmental events that are surrounding me continue to pile on and/or pressure in that, in time, these thoughts become much less and the "stinking thinking" becomes much louder. Even during those times, somewhere back in the recesses of my greyish matter I do know that it is the illness that is conjuring it all up. Still, once it gets to going and gets louder and more berating... it becomes all too consuming.
So... it's not as though I automatically go into negative thought patterns. I certainly do not catastophize for I am more of a realist and am not working myself up into a frenzy unless I enter a Mixed Manic state. I do not live in a perpetual state of negative pessimistic beliefs and emotions.
My depression is pure Clinical Depression 98% of the time but triggered 90% of the time by environmental stress and triggers for which I simply can not avoid and can only cope with for only so long. It doesn't help to have folks surrounding me that delight in reminding me of the errors in judgements I've made or to harp on how things will simply never be better for me. Yet, I can not escape the physical environment so readily nor completely untangle myself from the toxic people who surround me so quickly.
Otherwise, my depression is situational : loss of job, loss of pet, loss of family member, etc... which is completely and utterly human.
i have alot a bad memories in this environment, so , i was thinking
of moving out of town. And i said to myself, it could work.
but i have to take myself with me. (thots would still be there)
But, however, this was buggin me today too. i don t live with negative
people, but i go to a support group, thats good, except i find negative comments directed at me, lately by one person, out of the whole group,
like as if it is testing me out.....when i go to briefly talk, she ll turn to the other
person , as if they dont want to hear me. so i had to stop talking.
so then she asked why i m not going to meetings, when ive been
going for quite some time. i didnt get it. i felt down, after the meeting,
its too bad, she might be miserable, but i dont have to allow myself to be
that way. so i ll try to work through it , if that doesnt work, i will remove
myself from that meeting, noone deserves to be belittled. but thinking
positive, i m hoping i can focus on the other people , too bad i lost trust in
that person. There s lots of people in the world............
i have certainly felt the negativity of depression
i have catastrofized it by its definition
but i have also overcome all these ideations
now i can be depressed without loosing my positive self-awarness
i have never, or if on a rare occasion, felt helpless, hopeless or worthless
i try to turn it into detrrmination
depression is anger turned inside out(according to my therapist)
so that is what and how i change things
i take that anger and change it into my motivation
then the depression lifts
darkangel
I'm sorry I must have been the only one who was offended by this. I find the word 'they' as threatening. It's like someone pointing a finger at me and saying....look, those people with depression...if "they" just stop feeling sorry for themselves. There must have been a better way for Jerry to have phrased his sentences better. I'm not sure of all people who suffer depression, suffer with it mildly. But as for myself...I hit rock bottom in about as long as it takes to write this sentence. Then I am usally in it for the long haul...weeks or even months. There is no way for me to catch it and realize what I'm thinking. I don't have enough time to think..oh my gosh...I need to stop this...I'm thinking negitively. It's only when I am finally coming to the surface of my dark corners of my mind that I can start changing my thinking. Most of the time I have lost days and weeks of memory. I would love to see a showing of hands of people here who go to a therapist. Do you actually tell him/her what your really feeling...or do you tell them what you know "they" want to hear? If I told him/her what I was really feeling most of the time...I would not see the light of day for a very long time...because I would be stuck in the hopital. But I do agree with Cognitive Behavior Therapy. This is why when I am NOT depressed I can benefit from CBT, but only when I am coming back to the surface. I'm sorry maybe my bipolar is coming out, but I have always found the word "they" as threatening. This is a trigger word, just like "you". Who is "THEY" is it everyone? or just "they" meaning "us" who have a mental disorder? There are so many bipolar books out there that are suppose to teach people, such as family and friends what words "not" to use. Maybe I just read to many books. But if I don't keep reading all the new ones that come out, I would never stay educated on my disorder.
I'm TOTALLY honest w/my pdoc & therapist as I figure they can't help me otherwise. But I've been w/my pdoc over 12 yrs. now & she knows me really well. She once asked if I should be hospitalized when I starting having paranoia, but since seeing my mother in the mental hospital so many times I have vowed never to go there myself. My pdoc will see me on short notice if I start getting suicidal thoughts that are actually leading to the behavior, but she knows I have those kinds of thoughts often without acting on them.
Same w/my therapist.
I went to one therapist whom I could not be totally honest with as I feared if I told her about some of my thoughts she would try to hospitalize me so I stopped seeing her as I obviously didn't "trust" her & didn't think she could differentiate between my thoughts & my actions.
my hand is raised cause I do go to therapy
and no, I haven't always told what I've truly felt at any given time to many of the therapists I've had over the years
though the one I have now... I completely trust and she trusts me
in that if I truly felt I was coming unglued and needed IP, I'd tell her
and I would
I didn't appreciate the tone of this sharepost as well. It did give the "air" of if we just changed the way we thought we wouldn't be depressed people. It isn't as simple as just changing the way we think.
Sure trying to catch the negative thoughts and telling ourselves something different in the act... does help but in general it only prolongs the envitable slide into the descent of utter dark madness (for me anyway). My hope is always to gain enough ground while going in so as to have a least one toenail on something solid as I hang over the edge.
I was trying to show in my reply that I do not just "think negatively" all the time or see the world through black lenses - all the time. There are moments where the world has color and vibrancy and the thoughts aren't so heavy and forboding and are actually quite enjoyable and lively.
I struggle more with depression than with hypomania or mania or mixed episodes - though mixed episodes are catching up in the competition as I get older. YET it is not WHO I am. Still, the depressions are the episodes out to kill me - not the manias or mixers.
I absolutely have no problem with being open with my Pdoc, that is why he is helping me to wean off of Seroquel. It is with most Psycologist. I don't say there aren't good ones out there, I just haven't come across one yet. I've had very good luck with Therapist, but have not been able to find one since I've moved to AZ. I do fine going to Bipolar Support Groups extremely helpful. We are able to bounce ideas off of one another. We can learn and share ideas that work for one another to avoid pit falls. I guess after all these years, I'm just tired of having a finger pointed at me as if I am a child and am too stupid to know what is good for me. But parents did this to me for too many years. Thanks for all your replies to my post!
......i understand...alot of us went thru that. i couldnt get help from a
psycologist either. i m glad your pdoc is responding well to you.
when it comes to my past , i have to confide in my social worker.
i hope you find one soon, or therapist.
i heard this a long time ago, when i read books, a pdoc , was helping
someone get through the past thoughts of frustration towards parents.
i too suffer from that same problem, but cannot address that parent.***
the pdoc, in the book, had the client write a letter to the parents
on how they feel about ...the situations....but , (dont have to hand the
letter to the parents) and then , finally, the relief. i might try that.
i was waiting for someone to say just what you said. Good for you and
the hard core honesty on bipolar.
if we had the coping skills , to get out of depression , then we wouldnt,
i know i wouldnt, have to be on medication, to help me get out of it.
And if we knew how to get out of a manic phase, with coping skills,
obviously, then we wouldnt be bipolar.
But i keep an ' open mind ' to try more ways, to cope. Thanks...
Oh dear!
I hope you will accept that it was never my intention to portray a 'them and us' situation through the writing of the sharepost. Knowing how to pitch a sharepost is tricky at times and clearly I'm still learning how best to do this. My initial reaction was to go back and edit the article (perhaps I still should) but then all your related comments would make no sense as I think they remain under the sharepost.
Therefore, it's perhaps better that I leave it 'as is' along with an apology for any offence the wording of the sharepost has given. It's always my intention to provide helpful and supportive messages but I guess I've muddied the waters with this one.
Jerry,
as much as you want to help with people thinking positive, it's never easy and it doesn't matter if your a person that does or doesn't suffer from Bipolar. People that suffer from just depression without being bipolar have the same problem. I know I suffer from depression from time to time. I seem to be able to snap myself out of it, it's never easy but I feel I need to be the strong one in the house as my husband suffers from Bipolar. I can just picture both of us being in the negative mode, not a good look I don't think. It hasn't happened yet and I hope it never will. There are times where I feel down when he has a turn with his condition but somehow I seem to be able to stay strong until he is ok again and then I will have my turn. The sad part atm is that hubby seems to be down every night so I have to make sure I stay strong, if I struggle and I have a day off from work that particular day I tend to be misserable during the day while he isn't home and usually about 1 hour before he get's home I pull myself together, do what I should have done all day in that 1 hour and I am again the strong one to keep things together. The one thing I have learned living with my husband is that you really do have to watch what you say cause all I need to do is word something just the slightest wrong and that's it I will know about it and hear about it for the rest of the night until he goes to sleep.
Jerry
I for one, cause I can't speak for the others, accepts that your intentions were well placed. You were, in this post, coming from your psychologist angle cause you are a psychologist and I take it that you meant it from that stiff educational angle.
You did however, come across in a finger wagging blanket generalization of not understanding fully how a depressed person actually feels and thinks manner - and well, many of us get this and have gotten this for many many years from the folks who supposedly were supposed to be helping us.
It isn't all negative thinking. Major Depression, for me anyway, isn't something I can just stop with some positive affirmations. Nor is it something I can prevent from happening if it is hell bent on happening. I can however, try to minimize it while it is happening and that is what I try to do every time.
I've been in CBT and DBT and other types of therapy for nearly 30 years. I still have Major Depressive Episodes that are unrelenting at times even with all the coping strategies and techniques I've learned under my belt all these years.
Life isn't just as easy as changing your thoughts cause if that were so... I'd been cured many years ago. I've been changing them for years and I'm still symptomatic.
I think that in order to fully grasp what he is saying you have to think of what you found negative in the word "they" and remember to dwell on this by looking at the negative and forming a positive like saying to yourself, "gee, when he said they, I felt patronized. I guess I am going to have to remember to see his advice as being pertinent to a whole group of people who could also use this assistance including family and health care workers who deal with bipolar disorder". If you see what I did there, I took your interpretation of his use of audience as "they" and deflected the negativity from the comment and turned it into something positive. I understood that the use of "they" as a pejorative term was only interpreted by me that way and so because it did not actually cause me to feel the phrase was distasteful and nothing illegal was done then I could seek out the positive.
This time I fully agree. we tend to like cycles of negative thoughts this is a known fact. People with Bipolar and Depression engage in these negatives thoughts. Now there may be times when this is unavoidable like when someone looses a pet or a job. But most times we can avoid this kind of thinking. Even when we are depressed and we cannot help but hate everyone and ourselves or engage in pure negativity we can always try to do the opposite of what our mind is telling us. If our mind wants to engage in negative thoughts we can force ourselves to think the opposite, or positive way. Now this isn't easy by any means but I can do it. It has taken me a long time to learn. We may have Bipolar but we never loose part of our will to live or to fight against bipolar and negativity and this is also a fact.
Hey Jerry,
No need to apologize for your post...your just writing from your vantage post of being on the giving end verses receiving end.
Now in saying that...if I only had a dollar for every book that claimed that cognitive therapy could help me with the negative thoughts. I would walk around all day firing back good phrases from these books to try and combat the negative ones running rampage in my mind.
By the end of the day I would fall into a heap of mental exhaustion and as always the negative thoughts prevailed. How could this be so??? The books said it would work if only I would put forth the effort. This effort only made things worse in that I felt more of a failure in that it didn't work for me, thus I must not be good enough or for what ever reason had not put forth the effort needed to overcome this. I had volumes of books of the journals written daily that would fill anyone's large library.
These books claimed to have helped thousands of people...why not me?? Because I was clinically depressed and no matter how much effort I was willing to put forth...there was no way I was going to be able to just will it away. These books were written for people that are going through a rough period in their lives and have reasons to feel sad about things and have the ability to change their thought patters.
So the honest answer is that no matter how much effort you put fourth while clinically depressed, the negative thoughts will prevail and these books are of little use unless you are wiping your ass with the pages. Best answer is to get in to see a good psychiatrist for a medication adjustment and then read the books to help climb out of that dark hole we are emerging from.
Hi Eric,
Thanks for your supportive comments and additional contribution. I think you are absolutely correct in some of your assertions about the use, or otherwise, of some self-help materials. Some of them are authoritatively organized and presented but I actually don't quite know how people work with them in isolation - I mean without previously having had some support and context via therapy.
I also feel there is a time and place for such material. I don't think there's much point in suggestiung such material, or for that matter talking to people about negative thinking, while they are actually depressed. It falls into the same camp as 'have you tried green tea for that' - all rather patronizing and unhelpful.
I see discussions about negative thinking in a context and not isolated from the fact that depression is as much about a disorder of mood as it may be of thinking. Therefore, it becomes a useful tool, in the right context and with (I believe) the right support.
I'm a defender of CBT. I worked for many years in practice and I've used it myself with some very good results - but not always. In some people I've seen short-term improvement, others have found it very effective and still others haven't been touched. It may in part say something about the root cause of the depression in the first place.
So, my apology was offered in terms of any offence the wording of the sharepost may have caused - rather than its actual content. Having looked back over the sharepost I can see the reason for a negative reaction, but I still endorse the spirit of the message - with the proviso's I've just outlined.
It's great to see people pitching in. It would be a very strange world indeed if everything written was never challenged or never stirred some kind of reaction. Thanks again for taking the time and trouble to share your thoughts.
Dear Eric,
mental illness is a very mixed bag and each individual is different. I understand your position but I hope that you also understand mine and here it is: I have joined a group of people who are totally allergic to anymedication for Bipolar Especially depression. This means that our stomach has developed an allergy to medications and we cannot take any. This group of people comprises myself and other 25 people including a psychologist and some doctors who suffer from Bipolar 1 and also cronic and clinical depression. What to do? Two things either learn to cope or find a way out like most people do (siucide for example). Well I do not believe in suicide because I love life despite my terrible condition. As an artist I enjoy the artistic aspects of Bipolar and I love my wife. So through the years I have learned, just like the other 25 people, to cope without medication. Certainly there are days where I am depressed and negative thoughts are unavoidable. Also my behaviour changes sometimes but I have learned how to control myself and this has not been easy. I have been clinically depressed for years and have been on Lithium, Epilum, Seroquel, and many other drugs. My wife is Bipolar 1 as well and we met in a psychiatric hospital when we both attempted suicide about 20 years ago. Today, I am proud to say that I have been able to conquer the monster of Depression and Bipolar Disorder and so have the other 25 people. You see cognitive therapy was the only thing left for us for our body rejected medication. Now, many people despute the fact that I, like the other 25 people suffer from Bipolar 1, but our record of years of suffering (mine is 25 years of hospitals and medication with documented mania and terribly deep depression) has many doctors asking questions. Is it possible? Well it is now 10 years with very little ( sleeping tablets when by body lets me take them) or no medication at all and I feel better each day. Many have developed a kind of dislike for me (as on this website) because I am living proof that, even though I like you believed that cognitive therapy could never helped me, it has helped me indeed. I may be a case that can benefit from cognitive therapy and so are the other25 people. We simply do not know what is going on. But we cope each day. The illness is still there. If sometimes we feel like crap we accept this, we talk to each other. But because we are all well educated and professional of some sort we tend to focus on our job. We have learned that even if you feel like shit and feel like jumping over a cliff you can still convince your mind that this is just a trick your mind plays on you and live as you should. The more you use this to fight depression or bipolar the more you become strong because you see that you are in control not your Bipolar. Have you ever seem magicians who do terrible things to their body and feel no pain? It takes something like this, tremendous courage, knowledge of the illness and of oneself, and the ability to work with changing moods noticing what is happening to you but becoming unaffected by moods. It takes an increadible strenght that need to be developed over years not just one or two days. But it works for me. So it is true to say that we still do not know what is going on as I said mental illness is a mixed bag.
Take Dr Bob Rich who is a very respected practicing psychology. He lived through the second war and so his jewish family go throuw terrible traumas. He suffered for years (40 years) from clinical depression. Yet he was able to learn to cope with his depression without the need of medication. THis is what he writes on this website:
http://anxietyanddepression-help.com/index1.html
I am not saying that copying without medication is for everyone not at all, In fact it can be dangerous to cope with no medication. We, however, have been able to do it and for me life is much better now than it was while on medication. Cognitive Therapy for us is not just reading and listening to others. It is to participate in our own copying mechanisms development. But this may not be ideal for everyone. Last time I was on medication was years ago on Seroquel and a huge dose of 1600 mg. It took me months to go off that when my body decided that it had had enough of medication of any sort. All I am saying is that I respect your story but please respect mine. SOme people have told me that a Bipolar on no medication is a time bomb waiting to explode. Well some of the 25 people of my self help group have been with no medication for 27 years and no bomb has yet exploded.
Alfredo
In many respects, mental illness can be overcome with a concerted effort that applies the mind to the task of creating change. The problem for most is they feel overwhelmed by and completely identify with whatever condition has been applied to their particular problem. Does this mean you’ve been diagnosed incorrectly? Not necessarily. It means you have more power over creating change than you might otherwise believe.
Bad things happen to people all the time. Sometimes, the effects are more traumatizing than other events, times, places, etc. Whatever the trigger, a cause and effect occurrence has resulted in a mental illness. Instead of simply treating the symptoms, anyone suffering also wants to treat the cause, to get to the root, to find the missing link, and solve the outcome of the current experience they are living. How is it possible?
The main thing to recognize is your experience of self. First, the mind and it’s thoughts – all that thinking. What’s going on with that and are you identifying yourself with those thoughts? I think most people are so naturally accustomed to the mind through years of schooling and so forth, that when the negative spark that triggers a direction down an unhealthy path, the creeping in of that negative experience and those thoughts goes unnoticed until it is too late to nip it in the bud. Now more intentional effort has to applied to overcome what has built up over a period of time.
The second thing is the emotions. We do feel things. Ironically, we rarely realize that emotions can be unreliable, even though they can be quite wonderful at times. These emotions often times are actually creations of the mind. Events happen that make us happy. Why do they make us happy? Usually, it relates to who we are, what we value, and what we believe to be true, not to mention that we’re so good at imagining positive outcomes that we desire in any moment that a wonderful emotion is triggered. Again, these emotions are most often triggered by the mind, and they also carry chemicals that create physical feelings that reinforce emotions which in turn reinforce thought.
Are you seeing the pattern?
Now I’ve mentioned the body too, and I’d say that is a third thing to be aware of too. As emotions are expressions of feeling, the body also carries feelings that actually have little to do with emotion. Discomfort, pain, and quite honestly, a whole plethora of physical sensations too numerous to mention and sift through. What is important to realize though, is that it is the physical body that can speak to you more frankly and honestly than both the mind and emotions. What needs to change? It is giving you clues all the time.
Now the secret ingredient. You – the real you. When suffering from anything – mental, physical, or emotional – we become absorbed by that state of being. However, the mind sometimes barks at the situation – all the self-talk we’re familiar with – expressing its frustration at this current reality. The mind remembers the good, the bad, and the ugly, but mostly compares. Why am I like this now, when I was amazing before? It knows, and shows, and the emotion kicks in as frustration begs for release and freedom from this painful reality.
So who is this Real You I speak of? When all the storms of your condition overwhelm you, have you ever noticed another aspect of yourself noticing? It just sits there, another voice, that speaks silently in awe, wonder, sadness, love, or curiosity, and surrenders to your choice. However, when we’re quiet with it, we recognize that it simply is Aware.
This is You – Awareness. This awareness recognizes what is happening with the body, emotions, and thoughts, but has to wait for you to connect to your awareness before it can start bringing about change. Awareness also knows it is a process, that it is in a physical world of natural law, and that nature’s laws have cause-and-effect creating courses in our lives, and it knows that with nature’s laws we are all subject to the processes of nature.
That includes how our bodies work, how they heal, and all the various obstacles that represent the blockage we must overcome to get our lives back on the right track. The closer you are to your Awareness, the better equipped you are to deal with what life throws at you. The more tightly connected your remain to your Awareness, the more able you are to weather those storms, whether it is anxiety, a phobia, depression, and a host of other mental and physical illnesses.
It isn’t always about getting it right again. Sometimes it is about becoming right in the cirumstances that have you. It’s all in the mental game and can only be won with exercising that muscle that brings Awareness into authority over the mind, body, and emotions.
All the best, it is a process, so stay at it. Falling is moving forward.
Jerry, please don't take this as an attack on you...I'm sorry that I came across that way. I think I am the one who should apologize. I reacted, and should have stepped back after reading your post. But sometimes I just jump in with both feet stuck in my mouth. I think the only way you'll learn from us, is for us to react at the time we read your post. We don't know how to see it from your side of the desk, only from our side of it. We can be given all the tools, but if we don't know, or aren't able to use them, then it's like leading a horse to water.
The only time CBT has ever worked for me, was when I was in the hospital. Then for about a month after being released. I have a short attention span, and I'll miss one day...then two days..then I forget to tape the piece of paper on my fridge.
Keep posting, and learn from us. After all are we not the REAL experts on this Disorder? We will also be able to learn from you, just not as fast as you might hope for. But we read and want to learn otherwise if we don't then who will we turn too!
We have a common bond in that we're all here because we want to be. We want to read the experiences of others, and contribute our own, in the quest to understand and to help. I didn't regard your contribution as an attack but I was concerned that my mode of expression had been clumsier than intended. I also think there was some substance in what you said.
One good thing I got from this sharepost is the contact it has allowed me to have with some of the contributors, including yourself 
Regarding being a "failure" at cognitive therapy after reading numerous books a HUGE part of the Dialectical Behavioral Therapy is to not be judgmental about yourself. If you are not able to utilize the skills as well as you'd like, you just notice that but don't attach a judgment to it. You cannot make yourself understand something or be able to do something until you are able. No amount of "trying hard" is going to enable you to do something you are not capable of.
The new thinking skills I've learned are helping me not to escalate my depressions. If I am sad, I don't judge myself, but I also don't "feed" the depression with more negative thoughts like I used to. I grew up in a very abuse, chaotic home with a seriously mentally ill mother who was not helped by any treatments (ended up committing suicide) and an alcoholic father so I have a lot of old stuff that I would start ruminating on when I was sad or depressed which just made the depression worse.
Now I just let myself feel the "pure" feeling and not feed it with all the thoughts about the past like I used to.
My patterns of thinking were not necessarily "symptoms" of my bipolar condition. I just happen to have bipolar and other emotional problems due to past trauma. It is difficult for me to differentiate which "causes" which symptom and I don't really care. I'm just glad the DBT is helping so much.
Dr. Jerry,
I appreciate your dedication to writing, here. CBT and/or DBT is a great tool. And working with a knowledgeable therapist has been very helpful for me. As a Christian I find much relief in studying scriptures for positive thinking, too. Being aware of a direct connection to God is the most stabilizing stance against dark thoughts. Learning to think in gray terms, as you have said, helps me to not slice myself up with overly judgmental thinking. Reaching out to others in love is one of the best defenses, but also taking time to throw some positive fuel in the mind's fire, like reading a well balanced article on a non-controversial subject has been very helpful, as well. Reading good non-fiction and natural sciences literature helps me develop the habit to think accurately. I would never consider throwing away my meds, though, as even a few hours off starts a downward spiral. I've been on an upward path for many years, but I can't take a vacation from vigilance, even though most of my hours are better and better. I am encouraged, here, when I see this community working at staying positive.
Hi Richard,
It sounds like you have found some balance and contentment in your life. I certainly recognize the importance of religion and/or spirituality and the resiliance this provides. Your approach is to use the range of therapeutic aids available and a range of literature, which is interesting, and underpin this with your religious conviction.
I'm delighted your therapist has your trust and that the dynamics of your relationship is working for you. Finding a good therapist can be something of a hit-and-miss affair. On that note I think you've just provided inspiration for my next sharepost!
Dear Jerry Kennard,
I think that John McManamy does not understand the latest development in Cognitive Therapy. He does not understand that Cognitive Therapy is not a fixed concept but an evolving one to which we can all contribute. He talks about meditation and 'witnessing consciousness' or the mind watching over the mind not understanding that these ideas that derive from Buddhism can be integrated into Cognitive Therapy. These work very well with Cognitive Therapy. No one can stop us from gaining enough education to become our own psychologists even if we do visit a psychologist or psychiatrist from time to time. Medication is necessary but I feel that people today overuse medication. We only have to look at people like Michael Jackson who had an entire chemist at his own place and many other famous people have died from drug overdoses often of the medical kind.
I understand that BipolarConnect is probably partly sponsored by the pharmaceutical companies which brings questions to my mind. How can a writer like John fail to understand latest developments in Cognitive Therapy?And how can he fails to give this important and developing concept the right and well deserved importance!
Yet this attempt of mine to say that we need both medication used sensibly and carefully and Cognitive Therapy to help us manage our condition has not been welcomed by the people here. Why? I wonder why. It may be that the ideology that we are totally helpless and therefore in need of medication (the more the merrier) is too strong. And while John writes about how Cognitive Therapy has helped him he does little to promote the concept but actually greately undermines it. Why? This is strange to me but no matter I am out of here professor. One can only try to help but one cannot force things.
Looks like both you and I are not very popular here. Cognitive Therapy seems to be a bad word around this site.But while they can say that you do not suffer directly and therefore you cannot understand from an experience point of view they cannot say that to me because I suffer directly and they know it. That is why they dislike me so much. They are not interested to find what is closest to the truth they just do not anyone question their well established ideology based on the medication ideal. The more medication the better. Yes we can help ourselves but this is limited according to the ideology. And there is also a move against being educated. God forbid if we gain too much knowledge. We know enough as it is from just experience.
I think that John may be helping the pharmaceutical companies. Why else would he fail to understand latest development in Cognitive Therapy? A writer like him? It just makes little sense. But then again money talks and bulshit walks as they say. In this case Cognitive Therapy seem to belong to the bulshit side of things.
Alfredo
I doubt there are many Michael Jackson kinds of people here with people supplying them with dangerous drugs, like the one he apparently wanted for insomnia that is used in a hospital setting as an anesthetic for surgery! That man was very ill and obviously did not get proper medical treatment. Plus he looked like he had been suffering from anorexia which can also cause deluded thinking.
Regarding PTSD, I have had a treatment called "EMDR" (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). It is used in VA Hospitals with a lot of success.
Approximately 20 controlled studies have investigated the effects of EMDR. These studies have consistently found that EMDR effectively decreases/eliminates the symptoms of PTSD for the majority of clients.
The current treatment guidelines of the American Psychiatric Assoc. & the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies designate EMDR as an effective treatment for PTSD. EMDR has also found to be effective by the U.S. Dept. of Veteran Affairs & Dept. of Defense, the United Kingdom Dept. of Health, the Israeli National Council for Mental Health & many other international health & government agencies.
It can be an effective & rapid treatment (after 3 sessions my severe insomnia that I've had for years was "cured" & I was able to get off sedating meds at night; my insomnia was causing mania).
For further references, a bibliography of research can be found through EMDR International Association's web site: www.emdria.org.
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In my opinion, depression can result from many other things. for example
loss in a family... sad, or traumatic events.
Admitting to depression, is a courageous step, and telling the true
facts : the person isnt going to lie, if they want the help.
Interpretation, (the way you perceive what happened)
NORMAL - to see the events as they really are (sad)
TALK-IT-OUT -to heal
IMAGERY- turn the focus onto the good pictures and thoughts in your mind
( to see even a small good thing that happened pertaining to that event)
GOOD THOUGHT WORDS- I got through it, i survived it, to tell the story...
Positive--people who encourage you
Negative--people who keep bringing back the negative event,
but rarely ever say, anything positive about it. ****
Bipolar Disorder-- Could the manic phase, be a reaction of the brain,
that tries to relieve itself from dealing with too much depression
all at the same time?
In my Dialectical Behavioral Therapy group/class we are learning how to "retrain" our thinking as we all seem to be over-sensitive & perceive criticism when there is not or over-react to any criticism. (Most of the women--all women--have the dx of borderline, though one other has borderline & bipolar; I'm "officially" just dxed with bipolar though I fit right in!) For example, 3 years ago my husband told me he didn't find me attractive anymore as I've gained weight on my meds. So what did I do? Try to kill myself!
Or I "mindread" & imagine that he is thinking all sorts of bad things about me. But we've been married 35 years & together sinci I was 15 & he was 16! Of course, he didn't know my reaction to his comment would be so severe.
Through the DBT I am learning to balance my thinking--not just react with escalating emotions that cause me to do things like that, but to try to think more rationally. Like I cannot change other people's thoughts, emotions, etc. I can only change my own so I just have to accept that this is a flaw (my weight gain) that is causing some problems in my marriage, but my husband says that 95% of our marriage is great (great companionship, laugh together a lot, etc.) that I should concentrate on that & not on the negatives.
Also, I used to td "catastophic thinking." I grew up with a severely ill mother (bipolar who committed suicide when I was 15) and an alcoholic, distant father so my early life was full of catastrphies and crisis--calling the police when my mother was beating up my brother or she would do a suicide attempt, my father driving drunk and my being so scared and begging him to not drive and then he's get angry at me, etc.
So I continued to view everything as some kind of crisis (and even in the early years of my marriage make up a crisis, as start a fight for no reason, as it seemed I needed a crisis of some sort to "feel" anything). So I'm breaking a lot of old patterns.
But these thoughts pop up in so many ways. For example, my husband and I were hiking one morning on a trail near our house that is very popular and it was a gorgeous Sat. morning when the trail usually would have lots of people on it. No one else was hiking so we were wondering why. My first thought was that there was a serial killer loose on the trail and we didn't know it as we don't watch much TV so we hadn't seen the news and warnings about not hiking on this trail!!
My husband said that was not a "normal" conclusion, but that is the way I think. It ended up the parking lot to the trail was blocked off as it was being repaved so people weren't on the trail as they come to it by car and we can just walk from our house!
So I seem to "jump to conclusions" that are scary and negative. Through DBT I'm learning to analyze my conclusions and ask myself what evidence do I have that I have reached this conclusion. Usually I don't have very much evidence to reach such dramatic and negative conslusions so I need to calm my thinking down and remind myself I need more info.
It is a much nicer way to live when I'm not being so negative all the time & dramatic. I'm not a "drama queen" anymore,; maybe a "drama princess" but I'm working on it.
i understand how you are feeling
i sense that too
that to get out of depresssion you have to get manic
it only makes logical thinking
unless you are having a mixed episode
because you, unless mixed, are either up or down
so your homeostasis will obviously regulate it to change the mood
if either up or down, your body will try to regulate balance
darkangel
yes, i think so too....but how can we expect other people who dont have
bipolar to understand us?
i have used the words ' i am who i am' , and try not to go into detail,
unless its my pdoc or social worker.
i m glad we are all letting-it-all-out in all honesty, how we feel,
as i think this is the site to do that. you have a good pointer, about anger,
i m half asleep, but i say to myself, its not how you look on the outside,
beauty comes from within. And we all are worth it !! i force myself to go
outside. get on my bike, or go to the store, or just get out and do something.
And come back feeling better. Cause if we cant get positive, we cant
attract positive people around us...........
i know.....i too jump to conclusions, and i get scared for no reason.
But, its because i think the trauma of the past may repeat again, which
is normal , but scary for survivors. Or maybe you ve seen so many bad
things happen on tv. Its hard to find a good show...at times i ll watch
an old movie, or family movie, cause theyre better.
Me too and a bit-a-weight, its to find the time , to get into what YOU
can adjust to. I want to go swim at the pool. We should type out 10 things
that are good about ourselves, we might find something we didnt see before.
In all honesty I know that you don't have to be bipolar to jump to concusions or be scared for no reason but I also understand that it's more common with people that suffer from bipolar. I have the problem of jumping to conclusions and being scared of stuff for no reason but this has to do more with my childhood and me growing up, plenty of bad things have happened to me especially in relationships and I have this problem that I take the bad experience with me into the next relationship. I know I shouldn't be doing this and I also know that my husband who happens to be bipolar isn't anything like what I have experienced in my past relationships. There are days where I will just snap at him, I don't really know why and I tend to hate myself for it as I am doing it. There are days where it doesn't matter what my husband does, it's wrong. If I would know why I am doing this and find ways to stop it I would, I love him to bits, I know he isn't perfect but he is 99% better then previous relationships.
Now when it comes to my husband, he is very negative, alot of the time he asks me why I want to be with him and I tell him straight that it's cause of the way he can be (Loving, caring, fun to be around, heart of gold, etc) but he doesn't believe it cause he can't see that person in him.
I know deep down inside that hubby and I will get through this and will get him to turn himself around, I don't even care what it takes, if I have to drag him to the Dr's I will. A few times when he had to go to the Dr he wanted me to go with him cause he knew I would talk to the Dr and explain to him what has been happening with hubby. The only reason I say something is cause I know he won't. Let me give an exsample: He was going to go back to the Dr as his medication isn't really agreeing with him, I agreed to that and I told him that he needed to have some blood tests done to see about how to change the medication, to see if he needed lithium. At first he said ok, so I made the Dr appointment, I told him I made the appointment and then it came: "I don't need to go to the Dr, I'm fine" I tried to explain to him that the medication he is on isn't really working for him and it's upsetting him so he should really go to have it corrected. Outcome was I had to cancel the appointment cause he refused to go. Now just today he said he needed to go and see the Dr so he can get a referral to see a shrink, that was this morning while he was at work, when he got home there was no mentioning of it.
i have that experince too
my family doesn't know how to handle me
they can't see though the bp
they don't even think ni am bipolar
they assumed i have always been a schiz
they either think i am lying or that myt dr.'s are
but my mom knows what the dr.'s are saying
they must make up stories about what is being said
because, the dr.'s are professionals and won't lye to me to make me feel better
for some reason they think i have an issue with not having the schiz
when in fact i only do because i have to treat and deal with what it is i got!
and that is bipolar
i just wish reading about it will help them--if they read--they need to do all they can to understand it
which will probably never happen
untill then i am the one who says:"hey, it is just me!"
darkangel
oh my goodness.... poor guy can t make up his mind to go or not....either
he s afraid , or could be at certain times of the day, like me i feel i need the help,
then by the other time of the day, if feel just fine. Glad that he s good to you.
It s not your fault, for carrying your past with you, i went through
that , and its their fault, in the past for mistreating you. When you met
your husband, who treats you good, you broke that pattern.
it sounds maybe he is happy the way he is, but he s trying to make
you happy by agreeing to go to the doctor. Well if he s only doing it for
you and not himself, then eventually, he s not going to do it.
The old saying goes 'dont try to fix what isnt broken' , but if this
bothers you too much, cause ya cant cope, then yes i would see a professional
to get a point a view . when he asks why are you with me? could be he just
wants to be reminded that you love him. thats all. insecurity, alot ofmen
didnt get too much love back then either....lol....once i got real skinny,
and i couldnt even find a date !!! take care......
Well its not helping you any that they wont accept , what the doctors
are saying. where did they get the other diagnosis from?
i m stunned to hear this. But yet , at least they know you have a
mental illness, and they arent disagreeing to that. But i believe that
when ' anyone overrides a doctors diagnoses, or tries to make a person
think that they are worse mentally than they are ' its a way of gaining
control, and also very mentally abusive.
i believe you need to speak with a trained professional every
week , because of them ; and you are right.
We have the courage to accept ourselves for who we are.
That's just who we are !! Good for you.....
I do that catastrophic thinking, too. I remember being at a concert and my hair was falling out--due to Lithium destroying my thyroid I found out later--and I immediately thought, I must have radiation poisoning!
I am a survivor of so many things that are unspeakable, Steven Spielberg could make a movie from it, many people catastrophize? events in their lives, for attention,
but I think the mind of a bi-polar really re-lives his/hers past traumas and continues to connect each re-lived thought to to many moments of his day, unknowingly.
just my opinion.
I am a survivor of so many things that are unspeakable, Steven Spielberg could make a movie from it, many people catastrophize? events in their lives, for attention,
but I think the mind of a bi-polar really re-lives his/hers past traumas and continues to connect each re-lived thought to to many moments of his day, unknowingly.
just my opinion.
I am a survivor of so many things that are unspeakable, Steven Spielberg could make a movie from it, many people catastrophize? events in their lives, for attention,
but I think the mind of a bi-polar really re-lives his/hers past traumas and continues to connect each re-lived thought to to many moments of his day, unknowingly.
just my opinion.
could be.... although i never read that, i think trauma could make bipolar worse,
since it s harder to cope with moods, when going through it.
They say Ptsd is a separate disorder in itself, which is where a person , relives
their traumatic times. Anything that is similar to the past event/s can trigger
the memory of the event, but how we react to it is important. Some people can
just say ' that was then , this is now' and move on. But i as a bipolar, know what
my triggers are. Its important to know, that as a result the person can experience
'dissassociation' , panic attacks, depression, more mood swings, and tremors.
my worker thinks i have it, also social phobia, but i get no feedback from
my pdoc in this area...also ...i ve checked and found there is no medication for it,
which is why , counselling is so important. She taught me imagery, (turn your
head and look at 5 different things) to get them into your mind. Pictures, drawing,
typing your thoughts, listening to postitive, safe things....support groups.
But i think you are right, as we, bipolars are more sensitive, PTSD, effects us
more.....as it is more difficult for us to cope with..
I found out I had bi-polar a few years ago-and freaked out. 2 people I had told I've never heard from since.So I tell no one, any more but my spouse.If I'm feeling manicy I say I have a headache,and make up excuses for other symptoms---you are DEFINATELY stigmatized when some one knows, believe me-unless it's your mom or dad (fam)------and even then...they just won't say it to your face............... I say, that I have Fibromyalgia, to cover up any thing odd that I'm experiencing.-That illness is acceptable.-if you say bi-polar, they move down a seat.
Yes, unfortunately it is a mental illness of sorts.......that is..when you're feeling sane,
you are sane-------when you're feeling nuts.....you are nuts.
you have such a hard time living your life, the daily or monthly struggles--I've read so much about this ugly illness, just that could make you sick.
forget naming your meds-what works for you could make me sick.
I am aware of when 'it's' happening to me. The irritability factor, or mood -to me is the worst.I love life, and this illness is trying to ruin it.
When I feel 'normal'--I'm so happy for as long as it lasts.........but I know it is fleeting.
Then my thoughts get muddled, I'm forgetful,my memory sucks,-I can't get any thing done..................And NOTHING is worse than being, let's say in the kitchen
for example and out of no where...my mind starts slipping into a drunk, scary, fearfilled,ugly drunk-like state---where I have held on to my head and yelled to my spouse "IT"S HAPPENING" !! HELP ME !!! --If I had a crack pipe to escape these moments,I'd take a drag til it's gone. It is literally unbearable.
Drs. can sit there and listen and counsel --but they can NEVER feel what's going on in your head.
To all of you that hear me, let's get busy living,I'm forcing my self to do what I think I can't, I listen to subliminal tapes, to relax,listen to music I love
and try to get closer to God. I know how you all feel in so many areas,guilt, loss, anger,regret,sadness-the list is endless.But you are not alone, you just think so.
Let's help each other with things & ideas, that that help this ugly,confusing illness-it's a rollar coaster and we are on it, whether we like it or not.
My prayers are with you all.
re: polar bear, ptsd, panic attacks,etc. are all tandem ornaments we wear, with this illness or trauma, rape, abuse in any vile way, disfigurement, social phobia, bad childhood, death of loved one, estrangement,etc. etc.
I also have ptsd-------but I think bi-polar people have it in an exagerated form,I re-live my ugly traumas or past, several times a day-thanks for the imagering idea-sounds good to me. I'll try it.
re: polar bear, ptsd, panic attacks,etc. are all tandem ornaments we wear, with this illness or trauma, rape, abuse in any vile way, disfigurement, social phobia, bad childhood, death of loved one, estrangement,etc. etc.
I also have ptsd-------but I think bi-polar people have it in an exagerated form,I re-live my ugly traumas or past, several times a day-thanks for the imagering idea-sounds good to me. I'll try it.
no offense, but if my husband told me he didn' find me attractive because of my weight, I'd gently remind him he has a big stomach, or is going bald, his ears stick out-you get the picture.Kill your self for THAT?-------sounds to me...he's lucky to have you.......let him see if he can tell that to another woman.
You know a man can be short, fat and bald and stupid with bad breath-----but that's o.k.
If a woman gains weight !!! she should die!! what a joke.--they couldn't live with out us.
no offense, but if my husband told me he didn' find me attractive because of my weight, I'd gently remind him he has a big stomach, or is going bald, his ears stick out-you get the picture.Kill your self for THAT?-------sounds to me...he's lucky to have you.......let him see if he can tell that to another woman.
You know a man can be short, fat and bald and stupid with bad breath-----but that's o.k.
If a woman gains weight !!! she should die!! what a joke.--they couldn't live with out us.
Actually, my husband does not have a big stomach or going bald, etc. But I think there is a difference between gaining weight & going bald as I have some control over the weight issue. I'm not happy about the weight gain; he's not happy about the weight gain.
My decision to overdose after that comment was just an example of how I used to respond to things. I didn't know how to respond to negative things. Plus my father told me my mother killed herself because "she was losing her looks" so I already had a lot of baggage about what is a woman worth. My mother was seriously ill w/bipolar & that is why she killed herself.
I was seriously ill when I made that attempt. It was not a rational decision & of course, my husband did not know I would react like that. He is remorseful, of course, & tries to help me concentrate on all the positives in our marriage (been married 35 yrs.) & not to dwell on the problem I am having w/the weight gain.
I am off the medication that was the culprit for weight gain (2 mos. now) & I needed to lose weight for health reasons, too, as now I have high blood pressure & cholesterol & elevated blood sugar. Realistically, there are a lot of reasons my weight gain is bad. It has hurt my self-esteem (never a strong suit, anyway), my marital relationship & my health. I don't see how my husband's not finding me attractive anymore is his "fault" in that he can't really change what he finds physically atrractive & it seems many men are that way in that the physical attributes are alluring to them.
We have a great emotional connection & companionship & laugh a lot together, but I wasn't in my "right mind" when I reacted to that comment. I cannot change his thoughts or emotions. I don't have control over that, but I do have control over myself. If I thought he was abusive or something, I wouldn't be here, but he has helped me & been a very loyal person & I have put him through a lot when I was blaming him for my illness--until I got correct treatment, I didn't know why I was so depressed so I blamed him somehow.
- i think the main thing is we have to stay focused, on healing.
i plan thru the day what i m going to do...as listen to meditation music
whatever relaxes me.....i play it for most of the day each day. then goin to
get a pop....did you ever tape yourself? when you are talking it out?
and then later play it back........thru tears...you will see strength in you
that you didnt see before...do you sing? at times i ll go under
google....karaoke instrumental.....and just sing a song...and i feel better.
i went into national geographic yesterday from google.
today , i may look for more ways to deal with ptsd on the net.
some want to write a book, or record songs, or write songs, or they
express everything in art. i think its to get it out......all the fear...
and then listen to good things, and focus on good photos,
i m here at home, i see the trees, i hear my music, just saw the sun
shine stronger.....today...i try to live in today.........
O.k., your husband has no physical flaws, that says alot of your love for him, that's nice.-but the fact that you can have control of your weight and baldness has to be lived with is untrue. They have tons of Hairgoods, and hair clubs, transplants,extensions etc. so-you can 'control' baldness if you like.
If your husband knew, and I'm sure he does-of the terrible situation your mother was in, and how your father summarized it-------that alone gave me pause.
With that info. your husband should have been ashamed of himself, to suggest that he didn't find you 'attractive' because of your weight gain'. What did he marry -you or your figure?
I totally understand that men are visually centered, by the way they look at women- so is that o.k. for you, to have him, the man who knows youre sick, to make THAT kind of comment to you? The man who was supposed to mean for better or for worse?
By 'understanding men' -and how they view us, to me seems to let him off the hook too easy.
Yes, he CAN change the way he sees you, by looking at something else other than your behind. YOU. You seem to be an intelligent, caring, & deeply sensitive person, like myself,ahem,...but I'll be damned if I will ever take that kind of critiscism about my physical appearance, and then validate it!----yes honey, youre right-- not to find me attractive any more....I'm fat,--- I don't blame you, for saying so.----with the hell you've been thru... he should be saying how beautiful your eyes are, or... I love your smile etc-- Not that he is,--- but any moron man who thinks he can say a 'weight' thing to his suffering wife, or any woman, since fat, is always the subject du jour with most women today is not in touch with you OR your feelings- don't you get it? he's wrong, wrong, wrong.
If he, God forbid, lost a leg-would you remind him of how it turns you off, in bed ? I think not.-----and losing weight sometimes seems as impossible as growing a new leg.
Yeah, I have put my husband thru plenty, and he's been there for me too, I can be very self effacing, at times....but he never agrees.
If I'm having a 'fat' day, I say it. He never adds to it, and that's how it should be.
Words can be as abbusive, as a slap in the face,-worse even.-it was an insult I hope he didn't mean---and I wonder if you've ever told him a negative about himself, I bet not. Most men are sexual beings, if he wants to go else where, ask him.----If not........why not?-ergo your answer.
You were a very sick woman and strong woman to have gone thru what you did, and it seems that you are finding that light at the end of the tunnel.
The control you do have is to tell that man that you laugh with, and have a great emmotional connection with-----that he deserved SOME of the blame for basically saying you were a turnoff.
As you see -I respond to negative things better now, by sorting them out , and then knowing when & how to give it back, change the way I think, looking at what the source was, and if at the end of the day -if it really matters at all.
But NEVER be a doormat.
No body likes a doormat. I wish you peace and health.
O.k., your husband has no physical flaws, that says alot of your love for him, that's nice.-but the fact that you can have control of your weight and baldness has to be lived with is untrue. They have tons of Hairgoods, and hair clubs, transplants,extensions etc. so-you can 'control' baldness if you like.
If your husband knew, and I'm sure he does-of the terrible situation your mother was in, and how your father summarized it-------that alone gave me pause.
With that info. your husband should have been ashamed of himself, to suggest that he didn't find you 'attractive' because of your weight gain'. What did he marry -you or your figure?
I totally understand that men are visually centered, by the way they look at women- so is that o.k. for you, to have him, the man who knows youre sick, to make THAT kind of comment to you? The man who was supposed to mean for better or for worse?
By 'understanding men' -and how they view us, to me seems to let him off the hook too easy.
Yes, he CAN change the way he sees you, by looking at something else other than your behind. YOU. You seem to be an intelligent, caring, & deeply sensitive person, like myself,ahem,...but I'll be damned if I will ever take that kind of critiscism about my physical appearance, and then validate it!----yes honey, youre right-- not to find me attractive any more....I'm fat,--- I don't blame you, for saying so.----with the hell you've been thru... he should be saying how beautiful your eyes are, or... I love your smile etc-- Not that he is,--- but any moron man who thinks he can say a 'weight' thing to his suffering wife, or any woman, since fat, is always the subject du jour with most women today is not in touch with you OR your feelings- don't you get it? he's wrong, wrong, wrong.
If he, God forbid, lost a leg-would you remind him of how it turns you off, in bed ? I think not.-----and losing weight sometimes seems as impossible as growing a new leg.
Yeah, I have put my husband thru plenty, and he's been there for me too, I can be very self effacing, at times....but he never agrees.
If I'm having a 'fat' day, I say it. He never adds to it, and that's how it should be.
Words can be as abbusive, as a slap in the face,-worse even.-it was an insult I hope he didn't mean---and I wonder if you've ever told him a negative about himself, I bet not. Most men are sexual beings, if he wants to go else where, ask him.----If not........why not?-ergo your answer.
You were a very sick woman and strong woman to have gone thru what you did, and it seems that you are finding that light at the end of the tunnel.
The control you do have is to tell that man that you laugh with, and have a great emmotional connection with-----that he deserved SOME of the blame for basically saying you were a turnoff.
As you see -I respond to negative things better now, by sorting them out , and then knowing when & how to give it back, change the way I think, looking at what the source was, and if at the end of the day -if it really matters at all.
But NEVER be a doormat.
No body likes a doormat. I wish you peace and health.
O.k., your husband has no physical flaws, that says alot of your love for him, that's nice.-but the fact that you can have control of your weight and baldness has to be lived with is untrue. They have tons of Hairgoods, and hair clubs, transplants,extensions etc. so-you can 'control' baldness if you like.
If your husband knew, and I'm sure he does-of the terrible situation your mother was in, and how your father summarized it-------that alone gave me pause.
With that info. your husband should have been ashamed of himself, to suggest that he didn't find you 'attractive' because of your weight gain'. What did he marry -you or your figure?
I totally understand that men are visually centered, by the way they look at women- so is that o.k. for you, to have him, the man who knows youre sick, to make THAT kind of comment to you? The man who was supposed to mean for better or for worse?
By 'understanding men' -and how they view us, to me seems to let him off the hook too easy.
Yes, he CAN change the way he sees you, by looking at something else other than your behind. YOU. You seem to be an intelligent, caring, & deeply sensitive person, like myself,ahem,...but I'll be damned if I will ever take that kind of critiscism about my physical appearance, and then validate it!----yes honey, youre right-- not to find me attractive any more....I'm fat,--- I don't blame you, for saying so.----with the hell you've been thru... he should be saying how beautiful your eyes are, or... I love your smile etc-- Not that he is,--- but any moron man who thinks he can say a 'weight' thing to his suffering wife, or any woman, since fat, is always the subject du jour with most women today is not in touch with you OR your feelings- don't you get it? he's wrong, wrong, wrong.
If he, God forbid, lost a leg-would you remind him of how it turns you off, in bed ? I think not.-----and losing weight sometimes seems as impossible as growing a new leg.
Yeah, I have put my husband thru plenty, and he's been there for me too, I can be very self effacing, at times....but he never agrees.
If I'm having a 'fat' day, I say it. He never adds to it, and that's how it should be.
Words can be as abbusive, as a slap in the face,-worse even.-it was an insult I hope he didn't mean---and I wonder if you've ever told him a negative about himself, I bet not. Most men are sexual beings, if he wants to go else where, ask him.----If not........why not?-ergo your answer.
You were a very sick woman and strong woman to have gone thru what you did, and it seems that you are finding that light at the end of the tunnel.
The control you do have is to tell that man that you laugh with, and have a great emmotional connection with-----that he deserved SOME of the blame for basically saying you were a turnoff.
As you see -I respond to negative things better now, by sorting them out , and then knowing when & how to give it back, change the way I think, looking at what the source was, and if at the end of the day -if it really matters at all.
But NEVER be a doormat.
No body likes a doormat. I wish you peace and health.
O.k., your husband has no physical flaws, that says alot of your love for him, that's nice.-but the fact that you can have control of your weight and baldness has to be lived with is untrue. They have tons of Hairgoods, and hair clubs, transplants,extensions etc. so-you can 'control' baldness if you like.
If your husband knew, and I'm sure he does-of the terrible situation your mother was in, and how your father summarized it-------that alone gave me pause.
With that info. your husband should have been ashamed of himself, to suggest that he didn't find you 'attractive' because of your weight gain'. What did he marry -you or your figure?
I totally understand that men are visually centered, by the way they look at women- so is that o.k. for you, to have him, the man who knows youre sick, to make THAT kind of comment to you? The man who was supposed to mean for better or for worse?
By 'understanding men' -and how they view us, to me seems to let him off the hook too easy.
Yes, he CAN change the way he sees you, by looking at something else other than your behind. YOU. You seem to be an intelligent, caring, & deeply sensitive person, like myself,ahem,...but I'll be damned if I will ever take that kind of critiscism about my physical appearance, and then validate it!----yes honey, youre right-- not to find me attractive any more....I'm fat,--- I don't blame you, for saying so.----with the hell you've been thru... he should be saying how beautiful your eyes are, or... I love your smile etc-- Not that he is,--- but any moron man who thinks he can say a 'weight' thing to his suffering wife, or any woman, since fat, is always the subject du jour with most women today is not in touch with you OR your feelings- don't you get it? he's wrong, wrong, wrong.
If he, God forbid, lost a leg-would you remind him of how it turns you off, in bed ? I think not.-----and losing weight sometimes seems as impossible as growing a new leg.
Yeah, I have put my husband thru plenty, and he's been there for me too, I can be very self effacing, at times....but he never agrees.
If I'm having a 'fat' day, I say it. He never adds to it, and that's how it should be.
Words can be as abbusive, as a slap in the face,-worse even.-it was an insult I hope he didn't mean---and I wonder if you've ever told him a negative about himself, I bet not. Most men are sexual beings, if he wants to go else where, ask him.----If not........why not?-ergo your answer.
You were a very sick woman and strong woman to have gone thru what you did, and it seems that you are finding that light at the end of the tunnel.
The control you do have is to tell that man that you laugh with, and have a great emmotional connection with-----that he deserved SOME of the blame for basically saying you were a turnoff.
As you see -I respond to negative things better now, by sorting them out , and then knowing when & how to give it back, change the way I think, looking at what the source was, and if at the end of the day -if it really matters at all.
But NEVER be a doormat.
No body likes a doormat. I wish you peace and health.
O.k., your husband has no physical flaws, that says alot of your love for him, that's nice.-but the fact that you can have control of your weight and baldness has to be lived with is untrue. They have tons of Hairgoods, and hair clubs, transplants,extensions etc. so-you can 'control' baldness if you like.
If your husband knew, and I'm sure he does-of the terrible situation your mother was in, and how your father summarized it-------that alone gave me pause.
With that info. your husband should have been ashamed of himself, to suggest that he didn't find you 'attractive' because of your weight gain'. What did he marry -you or your figure?
I totally understand that men are visually centered, by the way they look at women- so is that o.k. for you, to have him, the man who knows youre sick, to make THAT kind of comment to you? The man who was supposed to mean for better or for worse?
By 'understanding men' -and how they view us, to me seems to let him off the hook too easy.
Yes, he CAN change the way he sees you, by looking at something else other than your behind. YOU. You seem to be an intelligent, caring, & deeply sensitive person, like myself,ahem,...but I'll be damned if I will ever take that kind of critiscism about my physical appearance, and then validate it!----yes honey, youre right-- not to find me attractive any more....I'm fat,--- I don't blame you, for saying so.----with the hell you've been thru... he should be saying how beautiful your eyes are, or... I love your smile etc-- Not that he is,--- but any moron man who thinks he can say a 'weight' thing to his suffering wife, or any woman, since fat, is always the subject du jour with most women today is not in touch with you OR your feelings- don't you get it? he's wrong, wrong, wrong.
If he, God forbid, lost a leg-would you remind him of how it turns you off, in bed ? I think not.-----and losing weight sometimes seems as impossible as growing a new leg.
Yeah, I have put my husband thru plenty, and he's been there for me too, I can be very self effacing, at times....but he never agrees.
If I'm having a 'fat' day, I say it. He never adds to it, and that's how it should be.
Words can be as abbusive, as a slap in the face,-worse even.-it was an insult I hope he didn't mean---and I wonder if you've ever told him a negative about himself, I bet not. Most men are sexual beings, if he wants to go else where, ask him.----If not........why not?-ergo your answer.
You were a very sick woman and strong woman to have gone thru what you did, and it seems that you are finding that light at the end of the tunnel.
The control you do have is to tell that man that you laugh with, and have a great emmotional connection with-----that he deserved SOME of the blame for basically saying you were a turnoff.
As you see -I respond to negative things better now, by sorting them out , and then knowing when & how to give it back, change the way I think, looking at what the source was, and if at the end of the day -if it really matters at all.
But NEVER be a doormat.
No body likes a doormat. I wish you peace and health.
Oh dear, you sound quite angry at me or my husband or both! He did not know about the stuff my father said to me about why my mother killed herself ("She was losing her looks"). He does know she had bipolar & committed suicide. I try not to rehash all that stuff, but sometimes the poison that has been lucking deep down from childhood does pop up when I'm depressed.
But I am doing quite well since that overdose & my relationship w/my husband has grown as he is now more knowledgeable about me & my sensitivities. However, I don't want to be a super-sentitive person such that my feelings are getting hurt so easily.
My weight is an issue as it is causing health problems--high blood pressure, cholesterol & blood sugar. So I do need to address this issue & actually feel lucky that I can. It's not something like losing a leg (though if I don't take care of my blood sugar the complications of diabetes could lead to something like that). We don't focus on my weight, but I am taking a diabetes educ. class where excess weight is a major focus plus increasing exercise & eating more in a way that will keep my blood sugar more stable. It is unfortunate that it negatively affects my self-esteem, but I doubt I'm the only woman affected that way.
I also doubt we could afford those hair treatments you mentioned if my husband were to go bald! I think we are challenged enough paying for my therapy & expensive meds. Our insurance does help, but limits the # of therapy sessions they will cover & the meds are still very expensive with co-pays.
I'm glad that you have such a wonderful relationship w/your husband that you don't get any negative comments, but I do think that my over-reaction was not his fault. He had no idea I would respond like that.
Thanks for the support; at least I hope it was support & not just criticism.