Has the age of bipolar onset fallen or are we simply more sensitized to something that has always been there? It's an interesting question. Certainly the average age of diagnosing bipolar has dropped fairly dramatically over the past few years from an average age of 30 years to ju...
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Bipolar Disorder & Young Adults: part one
7/ 6/09 2:47pm
In my opinion, bipolar is a disorder where the person has a harder time
to cope with things in life, which then causes mood swings.
Difficult events in life dont help it, absolutly not, but , as for me,
i dont have the coping skills that others have.
So you are right in a way, i believe the way the world is now it is
definietly harder to cope, and we may see more depressed, frustrated,
people, or teenagers, we have to know there are people who DO care.
But now is the time to work harder than ever at coping, and i believe
each person has their own way of coping. Some do turn to substance abuse
because of the pressures of life, as to want to ESCAPE that pressure.
But each time someone comes on this site, they are taking a good
step at looking at their REALITY of the situation, and finding more ways
to cope. If anyone thinks they may need more help with alcohol abuse
they can type in 'AA onine meetings' under google.
7/ 7/09 11:47am
Dear Jerry,
You are right to say that many people cure their Bipolar using alcohol and drugs. I have seen many specially artists and musicians. My father suffered from Bipolar but he was never on any medication. He medicated himself using alcohol. He was an alcoholic.
He was a famous musician and orchestra conductor though his family was a working class family. http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciano_Zotti
It is true that our life is more complex today and this could be used to explain the increase in Bipolar incidents and the fact that more younger people are affected.
However, I often think that it could be an evolutionary sign that humans need to change. That we can no longer live a materialistic, greedy, immature, destructive and irresponsible life that we have been leading for the past few decades. It could be a sign that modern man needs to abandon greed and environmental destruction and become more emotional and more in touch with the spirit of our new coming age. We are seeing a tremendous shift from a world economy based on economic rationalism, which no doubt has caused many social problems, to a kind of return to Keynesian Economics where we understand that we need to invest in the people not in material possessions. We are extremely complex beings and the internet is keeping people more informed than ever before and knowledge is more available than ever before. This requires more developed minds but also better social structure that can facilitate cooperation, charity, woluntary work, care for other people and the environment and more understanding and love for the arts not to mention a new understanding that life is in many ways magical and that many things we cannot explain.
So it may be a crazy idea but Bipolar could be an evolutionary signal that we need to change and changing we are gradually. Very soon Depression and Bipolar will be increasing at a drammatic pace. If we see these disorders not just an illness or disability but also as a signal that humans need to experience a new life more intuitive and considerate then Bipolar is just a cry for a better world and maybe not just an illness.
It is a strange idea but given that we have no proof for anything it is perhaps worth keeping in mind.
7/ 9/09 4:58pm
Research shows that the incidence of bipolar disorder is 1% across the board, in every nation and tribe. The hallmark of the disease is an abnormal mood not related to circumstances, i.e. a self-generating mood. Using myself as an example, I have been happy in very bad circumstances and depressed in very good ones. My chemistry is essentially out of sync with stress. Stress can help tip it more in one direction but does not determine the direction. The increased diagnosis of bipolar disorder in children, I think, is more due to closer observation and available treatment than any change in human evolution. The latter thought may give more meaning to the disease, but in my view the disease has no meaning--that is to say, no more meaning than diabetes--it simply is, and we need internal influences (as in medication) to combat our lack or normal responses to external ones. An unmedicated bipolar in therapy will get a lot less out of therapy than a medicated one in my experience.
7/ 8/09 6:11am
Hey Jerry,
I am I guess the opposite direction when it comes to diagnosing and giving medications to children for bipolarism. If there were a simple blood test or some other form of testing that was an exact science that would conclude beyond a shadow of a doubt I would look at it differently.
My own personal experience was that of having it flair up in my early twenties and being nabbed at 29...kind of the norm. Would I have been better off had I been in treatment early on (5 to 10 years old)? I don't think so and would tend to lean more toward having a harder time of trying to get through this period in my life knowing I was aka crazy and having all my friends label me as such.
I totally agree that some kids need some form of medication if it impairs their ability to learn and or function...I had neither issue. I started talking with other parents in the area a few years back and had learned that the majority of kids had been labeled by the school system as learning impaired. For awhile I thought it might be something in the water until I learned that the school received more funding based on the amount of learning disabled children in the district.
I also agree that culture has a lot to do with today's kids. When I was growing up, you could expect a good spanking and disciplinary actions if you did something wrong. The kids these days know the rules are in their favor and use threats of abuse and criminal actions to get their way. I can remember my daughter threatening me with calling law enforcement because she was grounded for two days...I handed her the phone and told her to call and there would be worse consequences in the end.
Today she is a young mother and thanks me for sticking to my guns of having rules in the house and enforcing them when needed. We can now laugh about it, but at the time it was no laughing matter. The state and federal government really needs to stay out of raising our kids and let us do our job as parents. A kid with no boundaries usually ends up on drugs or in Jail.
Should we be diagnosing kids as bipolar at a younger age and medicating them based on a subjective/objective nature...no. I also think the pharmaceuticals are making enough on the adult population as it is.
7/11/09 1:29am
My personal opinion and only my personal opinion for which I have a right to and anyone has a right to disagree with.
I believe that folks want a name for whatever seems to ail them or their loved ones.
School systems : aren't into spending any amount of time teaching anything anymore. My daughter's school in particular... she learned long division in 2 days. She had to for that is the only time the teacher went over it - 2 days. Teacher then moved on to fractions - for 2 days and at the end of the week had a math test on long divison and fractions. In one week my daughter had to learn long division and fractions. The next week, they went on to learn algebraic formulations and she was in the 3rd grade at the time.
Had my child not been quick on the ball and lost focus... or had trouble sitting still in class... she'd likely been suggested for medication. Why? Cause the kid has to pass the tests at the end of the grade, cause the school has to pass their criteria to get the funding and the teachers have to have a % of passing students each year to get the bonsus.
Can't have someone slower than the rest of the class, might have to cause the class to slow down and if he/she is causing disruption then the others can't focus. So, we take those into a class all to themselves and 9 out of 10 of those in that "separated class" are on ADHD meds.
Then you have the kids who are lashing out because at home they have violence, alcoholism, drugs, being physically and perhaps sexually abused, mom bringing in a new guy every couple of months, mom not at home, left on their own, not enough to eat, lights getting cut off, someone in jail, gangs around the corner, gun shots at night, etc...
and then we all think they should be perfect well behaved angels sitting still in a classroom. Most being bullied and judged by their classmates in kindergarten on up. Got to have them drugged up as well cause we can't have them disrupting class, kicking the teacher, ramming children's heads into walls, etc...
Kid takes the pharmaceutical speed becomes more aggressive, more outbursts. Kid grows, hormones kick in, aggression and self-injury happens. So, now kid has Bipolar and mood stabilizers introduced and his/her tranqs are increased in addition to the ADHD meds and anti-depressant he/she had earlier.
Or, Mom is exhausted, dad is gone, mom has 3+ children, kids running to and fro, kid wants attention, mom hasn't the time or patience, kid gets attention only way he/she knows how, mom gives in typically to quiet kid down.
Eventually, kid keeps wanting attention, mom stressed out, kids everywhere, everyone wanting attention, so kid escalates the attention behavior cause it works - mom focuses negatively perhaps but focuses all the same... mom gets tired and fed up - mom runs kid to psychiatrist - kid gets pills and a label of mental illness.
Or, Parent wants Ritalin, tells & shows kids how to talk and act at school and at doc's office, doc and therapist and teacher decide child needs Ritalin, parent fills script, parent takes the Ritalin and/or sells it for cash. Child gets labeled and gets scripts, parent gets high or sells for cash.
Child gets SSDI, Medicare, Medicaid, and then all the other social service programs... parent doesn't have to work cause child is ill at home with mental illness and SSDI check comes each month. Parent keeps taking the pills and/or selling them for cash. Kid gets individualized educational plan at school, school gets extra funding for the child being "mentally ill/disabled". It's called the "trickle down effect".
Are there children who have some type of true mental illness that require some type of true mental illness treatment? Sure
Are there as many children as there are actually being diagnosed, labeled, and drugged in this nation today? No
There are many many many other factors involved. Everyone is too quick to pin a label and Bipolar seems to be the easiest label to pin.
Kids are hormonal. World is stressful. Life is a bitch most days even for adults.
Anxiety and depression? Sure, who wouldn't have?
But rampant Bipolar seemingly everywhere and on children as young as 2 now, in some cases? No.
There is no medical test. There is no medical scan, no blood test, no pee in the cup test that says "Bipolar". It's subjective and arbitrary and the diagnosis can change from pdoc to pdoc given how the pdoc who is presented with the case understands the critieria or how he/she believes it relates.
Heck, you can get a Bipolar diagnosis in less than 20 minutes in most cases now. Read a brochure in a office, go in and see the doc, tell the doc your symptoms, and you get a diagnosis. You don't even need to see an actual psychiatrist any more.
I don't know that Bipolar is being any better diagnosed at earlier ages. I think that Bipolar is now being the "catch all/lump all" diagnosis for everything presented in the means of being better safe than sorry later.
Tabby out.
7/13/09 10:19am
Wow, Tabby, if you know of any parent doing what you wrote about, he/she should be reported immediately to not only the police, but child services. Coaching a child to act as if he has ADHD & then trying to get meds from a doc seems like a difficult thing to do. Most kids don't lie easily, but if a parent is training a child to lie to do illegal things (selling controlled substances or for mom to take the medication) that child is in dire need of help to get out of that situation. That is like a parent teaching a child to shop lift or offering the child up for sex for money (pimping). Children are not tools for adults to use to enrich themselves. In fact, I've found just the opposite--kids cost lots of money to raise!
However, I think it would be easier for the mom to just pretend SHE has ADHD as adults do have the syndrome & can receive medication for it. I think an adult set on doing this kind of illegal activity would be better prepared to fool a doc.
In my state it is not that easy to get medications that are controlled substances like that (Concerta, Ritalin, Adderall or anti-anxiety meds or Provigil). The state keeps very good records on who is receiving these medications, how many pills they get in 30 days, & what docs are prescribing them. Pain medications are tracked carefully, too.
I have a friend who is a teacher & the students who are dxed w/learning disabilities or other problems are still in her classroom (mainstreamed). She needs to provide the specialized education plan for them & spend the extra time w/them. They are not removed from the classroom so she is not getting any benefit from having children labeled in any way. She doesn't find kids who are medicated to the point that they just sit quietly. Her main challenge in the classroom is to get control of the children as they seem to not be taught to respect the teacher, or maybe adults in general, at home.
My son was in a private elememtary school in Calif. & needed the services of a speech therapist. Since I paid taxes, as well as tuition, the public school provided the services of a speech therapist for him at no charge. I was very pleased w/the results. After weekly meetings w/the therapist & lots of practice at home, he was able to overcome his speech impediments so that others could understand him. He is now a 30-year-old civil engineer & does regular oral presentations for his job.
When I had my first suicide attempt at 15, I NEEDED HELP, but did not receive it. I also should have been removed from my home as my bipolar mother & "functioning" alcoholic father did not have the resources within them to provide proper care & nurturing of a child. That's why I think it is important, Tabby, for you to step in & report any family situation as you described them. That child needs to be saved from that kind of family.
Luckily, I did finally receive treatment for my bipolar disorder (medication that was effective so then therapy was effective; still do indiv. therapy & DBT). So I was able w/a loving husband to raise two children who are thriving despite having gone through bouts of depression themselves. With medication & therapy they both recovered & are doing great.
They were on anti-depressants & did the therapy for one year (daughter during her sophmore year of college & son when he was a senior in high school). Neither takes medication now.
I am grateful for the treatment options available nowadays so that my children didn't go into the depths of depression as I did when I was a teenager & attempted suicide.
I know a couple whose 10-year-old son HUNG HIMSELF. I think any kind of treatment that would have helped him not to have that despair would have been tried if those parents knew what he was experiencing internally.
7/14/09 2:33pm
7/14/09 5:41pm
THANK GOODNESS. I pray the foster home is loving, stable & able to help heal the damage done to the child (children).
I wonder what kind of sentence the mom would get. I don't even know what they would call that kind of crime. It has to be more than contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Maybe using a minor in a crime? Don't know crime very well (thank goodness), but surely there is much evidence for child abuse.
8/11/09 7:32pm
My sons are both adopted and both came from bipolar parents, so we always knew about the possibilities and might have looked harder than otherwise.
Our youngest has ADD, diagnosed when we looked for a cause for learing disabilities when he was in 3rd grade. He is now 15 and has taken himself off meds this year. Trust me, you can tell the difference---he's broken his wrists 3 times in 8 months!
Our oldest was diagnosed and put on meds when he was 8, but in retrospect the symtoms were there from infancy. We've been through several therapists (helped me more than him) and psychiatrists and I honestly don't think we would have made it without the medications. My son has been variously diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder, possible Aspergers, and finally bipolar. We started with Depakope and worked our way up to antipsychotics, now at 18 things have settled down more and he's just on Concerta and Lexapro. His puberty years were hell.
The therapists were more likely to define things but since the mania and depression both have a tendency to manifest as violent rage the medications were literal life-savers. My son struggled through school due to inability to organize and focus when he's depressed and he talks non-stop on the other end.
Of course care should be taken in diagnosing bipolar in the young, but personal experience has shown me that it can be an accurate and necessary diagnosis.
I've read a lot on the subject and my research has shown the difference in younger people is the rapid cycling (as often as several times daily), whereas bipolar only used to be diagnosed if mania and depression each lasted for several weeks.
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I certainly fit the bill for not being diagnosed when the symptoms first appeared. I had my first suicide attempt at 15, but got no treatment despite the school telling my father I should. I guess he was just tired of the whole thing as my mother had a severe case of bipolar & was in & out of mental institutions & finally did commit suicide after many attempts.
In my 20's I started to seek help from my GP, but he dxed me w/unipolar depression (as I never went to see him when I was hypomanic; I've never had a full-blown mania). So he would put me on anti-depressants that, of course, sent me into hypomania so I just thought, "WOW, these pills are great!" But then after about 8 weeks, I would crash again so he would increase the dosage or if that was too high put me on a different anti-depressant w/the same results.
I also saw therapists who did not bring up the subject of bipolar.
Finally, I changed to an internal medicine doc who dxed me as bipolar due to my family history, plus I was in a mixed state when I saw her. I was very depressed & very agitiated. She sent me to a pdoc who confirmed the dx of bipolar 1 (even though I never had a full-blown mania but I did have delusional thinking & paranoia, as well as the mixed episodes). I was 43 years old!!
I went through an IOP at a hospital for about 9 weeks & started therapy again & DBT.
It seems many teenagers & early 20-year-olds are being dxed nowadays & that it is thought that that is the more typical time for it to surface (as it did for me at 15).
But what do you think about the YOUNG CHILDREN who are being dxed? Some as early as 5 years old. It would be awfully scary to put a young child on some of these meds.
Plus I don't think the effects of these meds on the elderly are known, either. I am 55 now & am attempting to get off some of the meds & decrease dosages of others due to my age & also, the DBT is helping me so much. But without being put on these meds when I was dxed, I couldn't get any benefit from therapy as I wasn't thinking quite right (obviously as I thought my husband of 28 years at the time was trying to poison me--still married to him!!) I usually spent the whole session just crying heavily before I was put on the medication for bipolar.
I've been off Abilify for 2 mos. (plus I gained 50 lbs. on Abilify so now I have health issues due to that); cut my Lamictal dosage in half; off Trazodone as my long-lasting insomnia has finally gone away (also had EMDR & that seemed to "cure" the insomnia; did have abuse in the home w/mother being so ill & violent & father a "functioning alcoholic"); rarely take Klonopin & had been taking Klonopin or Xanax every night for 20 years due to anxiety making it difficult to sleep.
I have a friend whose son is 20 years old & dxed a bipolar 1 after attempting suicide in college. He also has very strong religious delusions (Why are religious delusions so common? My mother had them as well. And in different cultures are religious delusions strong like that? Buddhists, Mormons, Muslims, tribal spiritual beliefs, etc.?). Unfortunately, this young man is not doing well at all & had to be court ordered to take medication as he is resistant. He thinks he is a prophet of God & that it is Satanic influences that are trying to make him take meds.
His mother is now guardian & he has threatened to kill her as he believes she is doing Satan's work by trying to get him to take meds. He now has an ACT team (are you familiar w/those?) & someone from his team comes each day to give him his meds so his mother doesn't have to. He's been in & out of the hospital & is smoking pot. Even though his therapist & pdoc know he is smoking pot & the young man says he does it to reduce anxiety, they will not prescibe something like Xanax as they say it is addictive. But what he is doing is illegal & he could end up in jail. Plus w/pot you never know what you are getting exactly. I just don't get the thinking behind that decision. Not everyone gets addicted (I didn't; I was on the same dosage for all those years & didn't take it during the day as the Xanax or Klonopin justs makes me sleepy). I also had no withdrawal when I quit taking it regularly. I may take it twice a month now. And since they are giving him his medication they could control his dosage.
Sure, IF he were to want to get more than they prescribe he could buy it on the streets, but he is already doing that w/the pot! Just don't get why they won't try an anti-anxiety medication instead of having him doing the pot for anxiety.
It seems anxiety just goes along w/bipolar. Most of the people in my support group receive medication to help combat anxiety & have not become addicted. Most people I know would rather not take so much medication than want to take more than prescribed.
Interesting stuff. Yes, anxiety goes along with bipolar and is a significant issue when it comes to relapse.
I share your concerns about very young children. It's a highly sensitive and pretty complex issue. To date, the evidence seems to suggest that ADHD is often the initial diagnosis for what could very well be bipolar in children. One problem is that the medication used in the treatment of ADHD is bad news for bipolar as it can trigger or make worse existing symptoms.
I have been on Concerta since I was dxed w/bipolar (about 12 years now) as I also have been dxed w/ADHD. It hasn't interfered w/my bipolar treatment. I guess because I'm on bipolar meds at the same time.
As a third-generation bipolar I, I've wondered if I have ADD as well, since the Adderall that was given me to help break my last two-year depression seems to calm me down and help me concentrate.
We have a family member who is 9 and diagnosed ADHD and put on Concerta - his mother has a bipolar disorder. I would like to find more information about the mechanism for triggering a bipolar disorder in cases like this.