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Crossing the Line with Bipolar

By Jerry Kennard, Health Guide Monday, September 21, 2009
A while ago I received a lengthy email from the relative of someone with bipolar disorder. The person wanted to know whether it was possible to discriminate between ‘bipolar and non-bipolar behavior'. Then, within the context of bipolar, a central question emerged as to whether there was ever a...
Dysthymic Disorder
Anonymous
Polarbear
9/21/09 7:10am

        If a person gets hit by a person,  (jekyl and hyde)  ,  in my opinion,

          they should leave the relationship, as it is dangerous,  bipolar or not

      bipolar, and  both should seek counselling.  if i  as bipolar, were hit, i would

        get out,  and never go back.  although we arent perfect, we have to learn

        from our experiences.   instead of being 'vulnerable',  we have to be

         assertive with our anger , and speak up appropriately, without yelling.

          Yelling to me  is a red flag,  and i d get outa there.  you are right jerry,

         *****,   we have a habit of going into depression with anger, but the

 

   frustration and (losing it), comes with depression, not the manic part.

             for me, the manic part......i m so happy, i have a ball, but spend too much

 

       money, and when we are balanced, then we arent so sensitive as to be

    'set off' by somone or something. So the trick is to work on the balance, of

            my dosage of medication, with my dr.    i  left a jekyl and hyde relationship

          and i m so happy,  my friends are so,  fantastic,  they dont hit or yell,

           and   even back  to dating , and feel better about myself.  it is common

         for a victim of violence to blame themselves,  BUT NOT TRUE,  noone ever

          has the right to hit someone, no matter what the situation. If you have to

             be lonely for a while,  till you meet more people,  just join a support group

      

       and   DUMP   it all on the table,   you ll feel better...and less confused.

                           Bipolars have alot of  good  qualities in them, and i dont care

     what others think, of us.            Thankyou.   

          

  

 

    

     

          

Anonymous
tabby
9/21/09 8:32am

This is what I've learned over the years here at this website, I being one with Bipolar  and not a professional anything.

 

The majority of "others" who post have someone in their lives that they SUSPECT has Bipolar.  They've read a list of symptoms and placed the behaviors on the lines and thus diagnosed the person themselves.  Or, the person supposedly has many many many other family members with Bipolar for whom supposedly all came out of the proverbial MH closet and informed this person of their illness. 

 

Occasionally, you do have a shareposter or inquistor who actually has someone, who truly has been diagnosed with Bipolar.  Yet, they are few and far between.

 

Many of the ones written about may actually have more Borderline Personality than Bipolar or, some other Personality Disorder issue.  Yet, no one wants to look at the Borderline or other Personality Disorder angle. 

 

Many of the ones written about may even have both Bipolar AND a Personality Disorder issue.  Yet, in that no one really wants to know about Bipolar - they don't want to know any more about Personality Disorders.  Not all with Bipolar have a Personality Disorder and not all have either/or.

 

What they all seemingly have wanted is for someone here to tell them how to make the person in their lives, who is causing them much distress, to simply stop.  They want someone to tell them what to do AND yet, they quite often don't enjoy receiving what the masses are sending back as feedback.

 

No one wants to force anyone into a psychiatric evaluation, no one wants to call the law, no one wants to pack their bags and leave the house, no one wants to do anything.  See, cause for them to have to do something puts the responsibility for their own misery on them and the means in which to alleviate it - also with them.  It takes the blame off the one they supposedly have layed it on and they'll likely balk at any suggestions to do such.

 

They can't leave, they feel guilty.  It's their house, why should they leave? 

I have no where to go, why can't he leave? etc... 

Or

If it is the Bipolar, I just know he has, then I can accept all this abusive behavior is his illness and not really him.  See, I've read that Bipolars are violent and abusive and that they all cheat so... if it is his Bipolar and not him, then I can deal with the abuse and his cheating so much better. 

Now, someone please tell me what to do to fix him cause I love him and I want all this to work!

4/12/12 7:25am

So here is the simple answer

 

Leave the bipolar to their own misery - get out and enjoy life

 

You will be better off - much better off

9/21/09 3:15pm

Hi Jerry

 

In the moments of crossing the line.  I understand the mood of dr jeckle and hyde, can relate very well.  I am a very understanding person and very nice.  There are times because of my illness that I do lash out in anger about whatever the problem with spouse.  But I don't mean it-of course later when back into reality I guess.  I am new at figuring this illness out.  My point is that when the illness has taken over_mood not right but you don't know it you do or say things that i wouldn't normaly do or say.  IF my mood whould have been right to begin with all would be WELL.

I frequently feel like this disorder CONSUMES me.  Any advice??

lisa

9/24/09 8:54am

There is no excuse for abuse(Bipolar or not). However if a loved one is ill we owe it to them to stick by them,and encourage them to get the help they need,not just desert them. It may require a temporary absece from the home or even having them commited to a facility.

 

I am reading so much on self diagnosis,and  wish that some of these posters would consider the fact that these people are just starting their search to better inform themselves before they take the next step in getting help! They have realized there is a problem and are seeking support, not just an excuse to stay with an abusive person.

 

I recently posted , and since deleted,because of these such comments.

I was not self diagnosing(medical and psychiatric treatment were in the works).The law was called,and husband is out of home.

However I am not yet willing to disregaurd my marriage vows because my husband is ill.

 

I do agree that abuse does not constitute Bipolar,but if the signs are there it is worth checking into .

 

Thank you to the commenters that informed me of other illnesses this could possibly be(this is the help I was looking for).

Anonymous
Toots
9/24/09 5:22pm

My husband divorced me while I was in a mental institution, and he used a situation with my niece starting an argument with me, to make me flea from the house.  He had the police follow me, in my own car, and arrest me for pettiness and resisting arrest because of my fear of police officers.  He has lived with my niece, since before the night I left....

 

He took everything, but one blanket from me....I guess you'd say it was my security blanket and that is how I'm now dealing with being abandoned at birth!

 

I have acted out of fear, and look psycho when threatened by bullies.  It is not my intent to be mispercieved, however now in my mid thirties...my life has been a joke.  

 

For every action there is always a consequence.  Mine is making people not want to be around me, and transient relationships.  Those that wanted to be around me are all deceased. 

Anonymous
hopefulness
9/24/09 6:45pm
Thank you Eggs. I agree entirely . I found some previous comments too ( T's )lacking understanding too, rather bitter and patronising. The fact that many partners do stay with their Bipolar loved ones is testiment to their love in many cases and belioef in the person they love,and fear in others I am sure. It is very hard indeed to leave someone when you know or have a good idea that the person is ill and behaving completely out of character. Surely any loving poartner would want yto give them a fair chance, tghough it is hard to now how long that should go on realistically if there is no change or no awareness, or only partial co-operation, though I still believe that is due to the illness too. Sometimes a temporary break is of course advisable if there are real, safety considerations or to just allow the situation to cool down, the person to attempt to see their behaviour has gone too far, but it certainly does not work as a deterrant to a partner to leave them in all cases . They simply do not have the level of controo to just change the way they behve or there would not be a problem. This is what the illness is all about. That control only comes with proper treatment and self help and good levels of in sight and willingness to change. They are usually quite unaware and out of control when unwell of their behaviour in an aggressive dysphoric manic state, and leaving them does not make the penny drop any faster in my experinece, they will still justify all theit actions if high, if they have loss of inisght it will make no difference but it does protect the abused party to leave for their own safety, so leaving should be considered an option if at risk of abuse most certainly, even if it is whilst help is still sought for the Bipolar partner from a distance or until they have come out of their episode. Leaving them does not have to mean giving up completely on them, though I accept some people will want to do this to. My partner and I have 2 separate properties, though we live together when he is low or when he is a bit more level which is rare. It is not so eadsy if people share one property. This is however what we were working towards.He has rapid cycling and is either depressed or dysphorically hypomanic and manic and he infact leaves me soon after his manic or hypomanic phase starts. Maybe on some subconscious level he does this to protect me ( Though I doubt it, I think it is just becuse he feels hostile and instantly dismissive when high and rejects me as soon as he becomes high ) as when hypomanic as it is never eouphoric, usually dysphoric, he is always very verbally aggressive or occasionally has been physically agressive in his high / hypomanic or manic phases . It would have been far easier to have run years ago in some ways and has been much much harder to stay, so this is no easy option . He is never unpleasant when depressed just frustrated with himself and the way the illness makes him feel and the impact it has on his functioning and thinking. That makes him angry but he is Not hostile, aggressive or violent when angry with depression. This always more than often accompanies the hypomania or mania. Partners do not always stay with the abuse Partner because they accept the absue, it is often because we believe the person can get well and be far more stable but from knowledge of this illness, this take time and a lot of effort. It may take years ,I have been told by the mental health team , and from experience this has proved to be true for a number of reasons: difficulties finding the correct combinations of medications at a therapeutic, effective and acceptable dose, compliance problems, resistance on behalf of my partner , and resistance and denial too from the mental health team of the severity of his illness at times when high. It is particularly difficult with poor mental health assessments and very little community support. It is not for the lack of seeking support, urgent assessments or involving the law. All this has occurred, and mty partner most certainly has had a diagnosis of Bipolar By 5 psychiatrists over the yeras They are all agreed except him when high. This is a symptom in its own right due to loss of insight. I think we all have our own limits reagrding what we are able to tolerate and what we can acceot and cope with, and some reach them sooner than others, and some make the mistake of leaving too soon, others make the mistake of staying too long. It is a very personal and individual situation and depends on the relationship, how much love there is, how much it can take, how much time and effort and emotion has been invested in the relationship, whether there are children, the level of commitment, how much can be salvaged, and forgiven, and worked out and how much is beyond repair. Each individual has to come to their own decision and it is not for us to judge but support each other. Sadly many Bipolar relationships do not survive, a very large percentage of Bipolar Marriages apparently end in divorce due to this extreme and additional strain and out of the ordinanry circumstance. Let's face ,relationships are tough at the best of times even without these complications, but with the right support , knowledge, awareness, and treatment ( which is where the problem lies ) I do feel many more bipolar relationships could survive. Not all difficult personality or behavioural problems will be bipolar related, however, if the character changes completely and the person is acting , behaving or speaking in an out of character way and there is no other reason for the changed bahviour that you are ware of ( such as Drug / Alcohol addiction or sudden increased interest in drinking or using substances out of the ordinary, which is usulaly a sign of mania anyway ,for example, though it would complicate a mood swing even if not normally used addictively ) which is only noticed during certain phases of the illnesss, then the chances are this distressing , obstructive, difficult, impulsive, activated, energized, argumentative, hostile or excessivley euphoric grandiose, behaviour is clearly due to the illness and not the person. With individulas who have very rapid cycling or prolonged or frequent highs it is hard to always see the distinction in the person's normal behaviour until they are in an opposite mood phase or a stable period long enough to see the difference and establish what is the oersons normal range of behaviours, so it is a good idea to keep a note of specific "patterns" of speech, themes that they return to only in a mood phase, behaviours, activities which are noted to crop up time and again but only in episodes, then disappear once the person is well or low or more themselves again. Most of the problem behaviours from my experience take place in the high phases of the illness, contrary to what many people with bipolar believe or describe, as many do not see this happening and describe the depression as the problematic phase. It is of course in some way, but in a very different way. I can appreciate that this is by far the most distressing phase ( depression ) experienced by the bipolar individual, and having had depression myself I can understand this, but from partner's points of view, I think most would agree the highs are by far the worst in terms of destruction , damage, and out of controo behaviour, and abuse, though depression can of course be very draining and waring and distressing to support if it goes on for a long time, and it is very upsetting to see your loved one so low and struggling so much, but I really dread and at times fear the highs when they return. I certainly Do Do everything I can to seek treatment for my partner at that time, but it is virtually impossible to get the right help at the right time in the right level before it is too late. I am persevering and onviously have not reached my personbal limit yet, though at times I beleive I have. I suppose I will know whe that time comes, Lets hope he is far morec stable thenm and it won't benecessary to leave. It would be a dreadful shame and huge loss after so many years and waste of all our time together to never reach that better time ! Instaed of reading just bloggs, it is a good idea to buy some reputable books about bipolar disorder. Bloggs can be misleadinmg at times though sojme are excellent. It depends on whether the information people report is accurate or just based on tgeir experinece boty matters ! I can recommend ; 1."Bipolar Disorder, The Complete Guide",by Sarah Owen, and Amanda Saunders, 2."Loving Someone with Bipolar Disorder ", by Julie fast and John Preston. M.D 3."An Unquiet Mind" , by Kay Redfiled Jamison , Personally I would read all three as they compliment each other and cover the illness very thoroughly but not compeletely on their own. Also, Jan Scotts , Self help CBT For Mood Swings ( Very Good ) Another very good Book by Sarah Russell, A Blue Book , I can not rememb er the title , but it is also excellent. There are many but I feel these are the best and believe me, I have read about 12. It has certainly helped me cope for much longer than I would have otherwise and given me Hope of my partners recovery or at least greater stability. Good Luck. Learn as much as you can and don't give up but do be prepared to leave if it unsafe, or if is right for you to move on. Not all people with Bipolar are abusive, and not in all episodes, though many are when unwell, but some episodes will be worse than others,but remember this is not your partner. Do all you can to keep the situation calm and quiet, do not argue, even if you know you have a point, there is no point if they are manic or hypomanic, you will not get through but just make them go higher and become more ill Do all you can to get help if they won't, or encourage them to get help, and learn what you need to know so you do not inadvertantly aggravate the abusiveness or take part in it. This easier siad than doen when someone is being absuive or having a go or criticizing you. It is hard not to take it personally or not react and recognise it is the illness talking or behving not the person. I have been caught out so many times and reacted, so it takes working hard on tgis important approach if you wnat to calm the situation down and really help your partner. This will not help you or them, your loved one. One of you needs to have some degree of control. Only you know if it is right to leave though many friends, colleagues,and family members will probably try to persuade you to leave because they do not want to see you being hurt or let down or held back by the illness , but think about it very carefully and if you love the person give them the best possible chance, if you are prepared to work hard as it won't be an easy ride, and you will need to accept this but there will be good times too and iot can get much better. There are some excellent websites, MIND website , NAMI website, THe American Journal Of Psychiatry :Bipolar Connect .com : Psych Ed .Com : Julie Fast's website: John McMann's website: and I am sure you will finf your own favourites. These will all help gain accurate knowledge which will hep in those dark times and give hope for the future. Attending a Bipolar Organisation Group also helped learn a great deal, identify and gain support from other carers and partners and those with Bipolar, and reduced isolation. All the best in your journey and search ! Hopefulness
Anonymous
hopefulness
9/24/09 6:58pm
I feel for you, but I do think that your perception sounds rather distorted, and is a very common situation whe manic. It is "possible" that your husband had you arrested for your own saftety and not for the reasons you mention or believed was the case at the time. This is a common scenario wit loss of insight. My partner totally believes I am the "Enemy "when he is high, and has used that terms, and believs he is very well and in control when he is high which is not the reality for any of us around him. It is virtually impossible to get him help in time if at all. He becomes extremely hostile at the mere suggestion he is going high. It sounds as if your husband had reached his limit in trying to cope with what is a very demanding and difficuot and destructive illness, and maybe he either could not cope anymore or had reached the point where he nolonger wanted to. When high people often perceive other people's attempts to get heklp as being bullied, but usually the probelm lies with the person who is unwell being resistant. Sorry but this is true ! I do hope you get some better treatment and can start to see things more clearly and realistically, and that you meet someone who can stay and cope and help you effectively, mabe your husband could not. Try to forgive him and move on. I expect he has forgiven yor illness and probably feels just as sad at the loss but not everyone can manage this illness if it is not in theoir capacity. All the very best.
Anonymous
hopefulness
9/24/09 7:22pm
Does anyone know how to get this website to print replies in the paragraphs I originaly typed? This was not entrered in one long ramble as above , I can asure you ! This happens every time and is most annoying as it is far less readable like this soI took care to separate it. Can I edit it ? I typed lots of short paragraphs. What am i doing wrong ! hopefulness
Anonymous
tabby
9/24/09 8:51pm

I have no problem with you mentioning me Hopefulness

 

See folks - the (Ts) she is mentioning is well... me

 

she apparently did not find my reply(ies) to her posts, uhmm mushy, supportive, loving, encouraging

 

So I, being one with Bipolar, am the bad one obviously because I seemingly lack sympathetic understanding of her respective plight.

 

Part of being on this website, posting, is again... receiving replies.  In that any and all can view and any and all can reply... not all replies will be as enjoyable or agreeable as one may have hoped to have received. 

Does not mean that all of those found disagreeable to the poster, were not honestly meant from a good place in the one who took the effort to reply (even though it was not as was wished to have been received).

 

Eh... but, we all move along and to each his own.

 

Peace...

 

 

 

9/25/09 12:53pm

Thank You so much! I wish you the best of luck too.

9/25/09 1:17pm

I agree we all need to hear the good and the bad.

 

I personally just wish people would READ the posts before they jump to a conclusion.

In my original post I stated that we were seeking psychiatrist,and exploring all options(not just Bipolar).Although medical Dr. has agreed it sounds like Bipolar. I was just wondering.In no way was I trying to self-diagnos.

 

Although,being a parent I have gotten pretty good at diagnosing strep throat,ear infections etc...

 

You are right,you are the one with Bipolar,so I will try to be understanding when it sounds like you and other commenters are calling the rest of us idiots.

 

I also have a daughter in law (that has been properly diagnosed multiple times) with Bipolar,and a friend. I understand this is very difficult not only on the people with the illness,but the families as well.We are all here for support.

 

Remember you are not alone in this.

 

             Wish you the best.

9/24/09 5:36pm

My husband has never been physically or even verbally abusive. He just uses tones of voice implying that whatever I just said was really stupid or annoying, or he challenges things that may have been stated ambiguously, and pretends he doesn't understand, also in an attempt to belittle the other person. Before the bipolar diagnosis, I would just say that he is an irritable guy. Now I ask myself why he talks to me in ways that he seems to be able to control toward others, or toward our family pets. If it's bipolar, I wonder how he can control it with them and not me. I finally realized that part of the answer is because I let him. So, after almost 25 years of marriage, I finally said that I won't be spoken to in that tone anymore, and that I don't deserve it. I said that if it continued, he would have to find a way to live on his own. He has been treating much better ever since, apologizing when necessary, and I think he feels a lot better about himself for not being a jerk.

9/25/09 12:45pm
Wow! Sounds so familiar. Best of luck to ya!
9/27/09 3:44pm

I have to congratulate you on that decision, not an easy one to make but necessary. We have to tell others BP or not, our limits.

I wish there were more people like you and stop this kind of behavior, not healthy to leave with someone who doesn't make an effort to treat us right.

I wish you all the best and good luck.Wink

 

Alex

9/27/09 5:19pm

Thank you.

Anonymous
BN
9/24/09 5:38pm

After over 20 years of being together, as a result of a personal breakdown, my partner was diagnosed as having bi-polar disorder. Gradually, so many behaviors of his over the years began to make sense. The irritations, the moodiness, the depression, the "off to the races" behaviors....and the affairs, which were devastating. Since his medication routine now the right one(over a year with 4 regimens that didn't work), excercise, meditation and focus on sprituality and reality, he's a better person than he ever was. I wanted to say that the sexual affairs and escapades would have long ago made me leave. But, even not knowing about his bi-polar nature, there was enough solidity and love between us to weather these things. So, my point is: realizing that he was more inclined in manic times to seek someone outside our relationship, makes it easier to look back at the past, but I made the decision to stay not because he was bipolar and therefore maybe not fully responsible for his actions (cause I didn't know he was bipolar) but because I (and he) made decisions each time to try until it would be super clear it can't work. I'm not giving any advice except to say that it's the years that make it clearer whether the relationship is solid or not. And I have to say that this is the best our relationship has ever been.

BN   

Anonymous
hopefulness
9/24/09 7:18pm
I am so pleased to hear you finally got there and that you are now with the true person, and the best of him. You certainly have shown remarkable forgiveness. We have been trying for ten years to find an effective Combination of medication and treatment approaches. My partner has not had affairs, though diod onece in his first marriage before he had a diagnosis aor any treatment so he is having a pratial responsem but it has not prevented his extreme hostility , aggressiveness He does show a lot of sexual preoccupation and hypersexualised thoughts and online activity, oggling if out and about or sexual remarks when hypomanic / manic which I know is not his usual way at all, but he has not had affairs as such though I know he has considered it when high, that is assuming he is being truthful. He generally tells me everything when he comes out of the high. That I am afraid would be my limit if he actually carried it out and I always know this could happen if he goes very high. It is hard to live with knowing this and distrusting the illness. He did get as far as taking an old flame away but she had contacted him and wanted him to drive her around in another country to view some property. Once there he treated her just as hostilely as he had me and ended up storming off and leaving her in a strange country, so it backfired. He and she assure me nothing else happened, and I do believe them, as I have seen the correspondance. I did forwran her not to rerspond when he is high to invitations so she got what she deserved, but would not believe me that he had this illness. She is a bit of an obsession he has which resurfaces everytime he becomes high, but they are just friends. Obsessions with other people are common when manic. I would not cope if he had had a affair. That is my limit, andI can only toerate a certain level of agressiveness. That too has its limits. I am delighted to hear your partnerv finally has a diagnosis and the right treatment. You obviously love him very much. I hope he repays this now as you have stuck by him so long and tolerated so much from the illness.
9/24/09 7:30pm

Hi

 

My ex has bipolar.  We were together for about a year & a half, lived together for about 9 months.  He didn't treat me awesomely but I always found myself making excuses for him - "he doesn't mean it, he's just not well today".  I broke up with him after he came home with other girls' phone numbers - I realised I could put up with being yelled at & called names, but I sure as hell wasn't going to put up with cheating.

 

Now that I have the gift of retrospect, I know that I shouldn't have spent as much time as I did making excuses for him, and my reason is this:  He never, ever took responsibility for his illness.  He didn't have a phsychologist or a psychiatrist, he didn't even have a regular GP.  He didn't 'do the right things' (eg limit drinking or drug use, ensure he took medications properly etc).  Had he really, really been trying, than my excuses for him on the bad days may have been acceptable.  But in the circumstances, they weren't.  I put of with a whole heap of crap that I shouldn't have, cried far too many tears.  All of which I think would have been ok, if he'd genuinely been making an effort to help himself. 

 

I think maybe the line is not static, even for one person.  I think that if it is clear that a bipolar person is genuinely trying their best, maybe they deserve a little extra leeway  (within reason, of course).  On reflection, my ex probably didn't deserve that, but I gave it to him anyway - which I realise now was my bad, oops!

Anonymous
scared to love
9/25/09 1:05am

I have been in my reationship for four years now and it scares me now because of my episodes.I feel like two different people a lot of times.One day I want to be with him and even in the day I just want him out of my life, I expode with screaming,throwing things and sometimes hurting myself.It is really taking a toll on my relationship.I don't feel like I will ever have a long relationship due to my bipolar. Am I alone in these episodes? Cry

 

9/25/09 4:32am

No matter how hard it may be to control our extreme feelings if we have BP disorder, nothing is an excuse to cross the limits and harm other people. Meds only take care of our brain's needs, they don't change our personalities. Bipolar or not, we always have to set boundaries in all kinds of relationships. We can always tell when we are off balance; we can choose to leave to protect others from ourselves. Family and friends don't have to put up with us, they can help by not pushing buttons and supporting us, but never to be our bag of sand.  We have to be responsible for our actions and understand how hard it is to be with someone with BP.

Anonymous
hopefulness
9/26/09 8:14am
I have to say respectfully that I disagree about people with Bipolar "always knowing when they are off balance "and being able to take responsibility. IF this were the case, they would not have this illness ! we would not have half the difficulties we have as partners of those with Bipolar or as Bipolar sufferes if tis were the case. His is an ideal situation but not apply to many people. Loss of control and impulsive behaviour, inappropriate thinking and behaviour are all symptoms of a condition which is undertreated or unsuccessfully stabilized, and is particularly difficult to even achieve with some forms of Rapid Cycling, or even with people who have infrequent episodes interspersed with long periods of wellness who are the most responsible and disciplined self managers and have made many sacrifices and life style changes, however, they can still be caught out by episodes coming on suddenly completely out of their control. This may be some poeple's experience of how they feel when unwell or how thier loved on acts and feels withgood levels of self awareness and knowledge of the illness or waht steps to take igf they are lucky enough to spot and accept early warning signs, but is an assumption that people with this illness can all do this, which is not confirmed by research, experience and is more of an expectation hat people will behave in gthis way. It is a steep expectation we can hope for but have no right to demand. Thats like syainmg someon e should have control over their relapses and remissions of Multiple sclerosis, or epilepsy, or a brain tumour, all of which can and do in some case alter mood and behaviour and perception with neuronal brain changes. 50% of people with Bipolar apprently do not recognise hypomania or mania coming on or realise when they are acting out of character or have any mental abilioty to se it this way or control it. It is down to brain malfunction at a neurobiological biochemical level. This is not a behavooural or personaility disorder which can treated usong these models of care . They can only "enhance" self management and assist someon to deveolp knowledge and accepotance and coping skills, but effective treatment still hinges on restoring the brain functionality, biochemically as this is fundamentally a Medica condition which only presents with psychological / psychistric symptoms becuse it affects the physical, bodilt organ responsible for those processes. It Bipolar were affecting the stomach . the symptoms would be gastric or dietary difficulties. The brain is responsible for the functional areas of thinking, learning ( cognitive processes),behaviours, emotions, feelings, speech and activity. This has nothing to even do with awareness or knowledge of the illness though this can help some . Loss of mental insight comes on for some people very early on as hypomania is emerging and sometimes nothing anyone can say or dohowever well trained or experineced can shift the thinking or perception or someone in this mood emergent state. The brain is in control, not the person's normal well character. And if the brain is not firing on all cylinders or messages are being misdirected this will be reflected in thinking, behviour and perception, and decisions and judgement.If individuals do retain insight they have an opportunity to seek help and take responsibility moreso that those who loss their insight and rational thinking processes. This is often not within their control in many cases and is not a choice ! THis is the illness in action. THis is the nature of this mental / medical illness and the loss of awareness and inability to reason or perceive things as the onlooker sees the behaviour is due to the biologocal changes taking place in someones brain chemisry at this point. If someone truly believes themselves to be well , against all evidence to the contrary , however convincing the argument, or exoert the person presenting it, this is a perceptual deficit, and they can not be expected to take responsibilty for an illness they simply are unable to see. Would you treat for b;leeing if you could not see any blood, and felt absolutely fine, and thought you were well and beleived you were behaving appropriately and that everyone else was the problem and the enemy ? It is not about "not wanting" to see it or being in denial as in addic tive illness, it is about the brain not allowing you to see things as they realy are. For example , my partner can see this only too cleary when he comes out of the manic / hypomanic episode, and starts to take full responsibility again, however, he is also dependant on his psychiatrist establishing the correct combination of effective medication, which he seems unable to achieve. My partner has made numerous lifestyle changes to self manage during the depressive or euthymic phases when his insight and awareness returns and he can think rationally. He does not choose to lose his insight or do anything to cause it to go again ! However ,at the point when hypomania or mania start to creep back in again he is totaly unable to see this, and can not be persuaded otherwise. Ifcat to attept to do say will make him go higher and aggravate matters. It is impossible to get it right or raise his awareness. All awareness, knowledge, previous insight gained disappear and he reverts to manic thinking an reverts to past manic thremes than only emerge during thjis phase. Hios rationailty goed completely out of the window again once high and this is not deliberate or withinh his control .He starts to question all his previous acceptance and acknowledgements and his diagnosis. This is however normal to think like this for many people during highs periods , and frankly if they had insight and awareness, and control, and were able to retain it,they would not have this diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder. That's what it is all about, and it is a disorder of brain function and biochemistry, a medical illness in fact in that sense affecting a bodily organ of thought. If they did not have the illness, most would not be behaving in the destructive or upsetting ways they do. It has little to do with noraml personality traits. It does alter personality (character ) drammatically . Medication and self management does in some but not all cases successfully restore normal bfrain function and brain chemistry thereby restoring character and behaviours within the persons normal personailty ranges. It is such a misunderstood illness and difficult to grasp, particulary if non medically orientated. We expect a tremendous amount from people with Bipolar diosorder which we would not expect of those with other chronic illnesses simply because we can not see the physical / medical abnormailty of the organ it affects. Would we expect a Diabetic to have control over thier bodies insulin swings, before diagnosis or even when taking the prescribed treatments. No! The difference is that Diabetics do not lose insight ,therefore , have the ability to choose to follow treatment and oif taken approparitely it is still not without problems. They will still have some high and low blood sugars. How can someone take full responsibilty for an illness which they can not even see, as part of the illness biology os to convince people they feel well whe manic / hypomnic simply because that is the effect on the brian of excessive dopamine, to increase energy levels, feelings of wellbeing. confidence, decreased need for sleep, which will inturn lead to high levels of irritability, yet the person remains driven on furthur by the continued release of dopamine despite lack of sleep, and theexcessively hig amounts lead to loss of judgement ,grandiosity, impulsiveness, hypersexuality, loss of reasoning, euphoria or dysphoria with aggression. They are not responsible for having dopamine malfunction. That is why stabiising medications are mainly Dopamine antagonists. and work on aother brain chemistry such as norepinepherine and serotonin in one form or another. Poeple believe they are better than ever maybe when high, have unrealistic perceptions of their activities and can see no harm in them as judgement and inhibition is lost alongside loss of insight Just as it would be if someone who had taken sufficient mood altering drugs/ alcohol as they can knock out the inhibition centres of the brain and significantly alter behaviour out of the person's control or awareness , with or without an addiction problem ) periodically removes their reason and ability to see things rationally through no fault of their own ? With Bipolar thr biochemical [proceeses taking place in the brain whe manic are just like having Cocain ein the system, except without having taken any. Bipolar Disorder is apparently caused by the brians inability to regulate ( turn on and off ) Dopamine release and function, and how it interacts with Serotonin. It has nothing to do with taking responsibilty. It totally alters the way a person thinks , sees thimgs and feels and is not within their control unless they are on the correct medication ( For which the psychiatrists are responsible, not the client, and is sometimes very hard to achieve for complex reasons ). If someone can not see they have a illness of course there will be compliance or resistance problems but this is part of the ilness itself, and a common pattern of all chronic illnesses, though far more likely where insight is lost. Even when people are taking full responsibilty, taking al the medicatio they are told to take, and appropriately at correct times and disages, and following self help aproaches, and engaging in therapy, this illness can still rear its ugly head at any time, and all their reason and knowledge can be lost at the drop of a hat, and is in no way deliberate or due to anything the person has done wrong or not done, if they have the type of Bipolar which leads to loss of mental insight. Not all people have such a dimished level of loss of insight but more do than than don't according to all research, especially if they have been undiagnosed or undertreated for years and have just been considered a difficult personality and family and friends have accepted or tolertaed it due to the persons resistance or lack of acknowledgement of there being anything wrong, and have been unable to get the person to agree to seek treatment. WE need to stop blaming people with this illness and expecting so much responsibilty for them all the time when it is not always acheivable. It is too simplistic an approach and just mirrors our own frustration about the loved on not being able to get well, stay well, or accept sommetimg is wrong which they can not see. I feel the GPs and psychiatric teams need to take a more responsible and proactive approach and become far more expert in diagnosis, early detection , be prepared to listen to carers / partners, and stop ignoring observations of loved ones who often know exactly when their partner is unwell even if the partner disagrees. The outlook is far better the earlier someone starts to receive treatment and the better chance they have of gaining some insight and developing knowledge and coping skills that might stick before decades of maladaptive coping skills become part of someone makeup and belief system. There is always hope but I feel we must stop making people feel responsible when they become unwell if it is not through their own fault or awareness and for attempting to self medicate unsuccessfully managed or inadequately traeted distresing symptoms of the illness with either drink or alcohol. Of course these will aggravate the symptoms but in some cases people have beleived or found them to temporarily help, ot it my have been that they have inly gravated to using thing sin excess or in an out of character way bcause they are actually already in an episode. This is commih with hypomania and mania. The mania or hypomnia usually precedes the increased use of drugs or due to loss of judgement and an increased desire to take risks or excesses. It is not the other around way around and this has been shown in research. However, in turn these substances will over time make the lows and highs worse ofcourse, but for some at the time they feel it will keep them up there, or calm anxious feelings depending on what they are feeling at the time. Lets face it most average poeple do this everytime they reach for a drink. We are all attempting even if not consciously to change the way we feel even just for an evening. What if once you had done that, you could not turn it off even if you had stopped rinking the next daty, the uephoria or dysphora triggered the night before would not stop, even in the absece of alcohol or a stimulating environment ? We rarely drink just for the taste even if we fool ourselves. Alcohol is just unfortunately a legal poison part of our society with a lot to answer for. The fact that we all know the effects alcohol will have yet it is so easy to forget that once it too causes t he same loss of judgement and inhibition and loss of control over behaviour once taken beyond that 1 glass too many , a line which is so easy to cross,and we can do this without Bipolar. So imagine having an illness that causes that loss of judgement and inhibition and poor choice and decision making even without taking anything ! I think we who are not Bipolar need to question our own levels of taking responsibility for behavior as we have far fewer excuses and it si so much easier for us to do this consciously as our awareness is not impaired or temporarily gone for weeks or months, yet we still make mistakes .We do it with full rationality and reason , so can hardly expect so much from those who do not even have that at their disposal in episodes of illness! Most of the people I know with Bipolar Disorder once diagnosed and adequately treated try extremely hard indeed to stay well yet still suffer periods of illness , huge personal losses and stigmatization and lack of understanding about how this illness works.Without medical knowledge or willingness to research thoroughly, and I don't mean personal bloggs or opinions, but backed up by sound research too, it can be adifficult illness to graps or fully accept how it works and affects the individual and all those close to them. Even with that 27 years of medical knowledge, 20 years experience, of living alongside 3 people with with Bipolar Disorder , lots of past and current research and full understanding so far based on current approaches ( Which I accept could be all disproved tommorrow ) It is still very hard to live with and accept and tolerate this illness or any chronic illness which grossly alters someone we love out of character.We cab still only change ourselves and support and ebcourage someone elses change or browth or acceotance. We can not do it for them or make them do that. They still have to reach that point themselves somehow , and that may sometimes only come after a crisis or two sadly. ( So much for crisis intervention in the community ) I feel sure that comes with correct diagnosis initially, above all correct medication at the effective dosage levels, enhanced by good quality infornation rarely given by GPS or mental health teams, about the illness, and self management information being provided by properly trained therapists, and a willingness on behalf of the individual with Bipolar Disorder to consider there may be a probelm worth treating. Hopefully they will have full support from the family, rather than equal denial or resistance from them too which is quite common and does not help. It just reinforces the person's own lack of acceptance of themselves or denial of the illness. I know as we are all human and can at times just react to whatever we are on the receiving end of, however , with hindsight, I often find myself saying why did I take that personally , or waste energy reacting when it was just the illness.What could I have done better to support my husband at that time or what could I have let go, or even when should I have moved on or was it right to stay. It is antural to ask all these questions. There is always Hope and we are all in this together.
9/28/09 3:58am

"It is a steep expectation we can hope for but have no right to demand. That's like syainmg someon e should have control over their relapses and remissions of Multiple sclerosis, or epilepsy, or a brain tumour, all of which can and do in some case alter mood and behaviour and perception with neuronal brain changes. 50% of people with Bipolar apprently do not recognise hypomania or mania coming on or realise when they are acting out of character or have any mental abilioty to se it this way or control it."

I do have many questions about this but I find very hard for someone who doesn't have BP to talk like as if it knows so much about it and compares having BP disorder with brain tumor or being diabetic. People do have to take responsibility of taking the best care of themselves in any illnesses and of their actions, finding tools to help them coping with it. Taking the right meds and having therapy, if necessary, is vital to understand where this illness ends and our personality starts. That's what I call being responsible of one's actions instead of blaming on BP for cheating and for abusing their partners or whatever. It's very easy to find people emotionally unstable, immature and irresponsible without having BP, but when they know they have it well it's a good way to do make their lives easier and not take the time and the effort to take control of their well being and be stronger to handle it the best they can. And yes, protecting others from themselves when necessary. It's not dementia or something uncontrollable so why keep saying we can't be responsible for the way they let ourselves behave when we are off balance?

We have to be aware about our roller coaters all the time, it's a full time job!

I advise you to do a better research about it or talk to a good psychiatrist because this is a serious matter and there are people being abused in their relationships willing to forgive BP's for their behavior.

If people don't want to take the time to improve themselves or to do all in their power, with professional help, to control their actions towards others, then those living with them should leave that abusive relationship.

 

Alex

9/28/09 4:51pm
Thank you for your reply and advice. It appears clear you have not grasped or understood the point I was atempting to make.I can asure you it is well researched and with knowledge and experinece of this condition. and when I have more time I shall clarify what I meant, as you misunderstood my references to other Chronic disorders . I was not saying thee conditions are similar to Bipolar Disorder , but only in respect of the way they can and do affect mental insight, and control over ones moods. Diabetes, Brian Tumours, Epilepsy and MS to name but a few medical conditions, some acute , somee chronic do in many cases cause mood changes. The similarity lies in thefact tha individuals are not always in control of this. It is caused by the biological effects on the brain and nervous tissue. In that sense it compares with Bipolar Disoder. If you are saying that people with Bipolar Disorder differ in that they do have control over their brain abnormalities and mood changes, then I am sorry but you ae wrongly informedi. Perhaps you need to do the research moderan research. I have done much over many years. The only reason I related these other chronic illnesses to Bipolar was in respect of the loss of awareness and insight during extreme phases of the illness, when rationailty can indeed be affected. AT tyhese points in episodes peopleafe not in control, or able to take responsibilty as they believe themselves to be well. You yourself mentioned dementia, and said it is not as if people with Biploar have no control and implied that those with dementia did not and were not in any way responsible, though often their lifestyel can actually cause some of these problems. I agree they do not always have conbtrol once the dementia is ubderway, but the same actually applies to Bipolar. This can come on in Childhood or adolescence or any any time. It is an illness for which the individual is not responsible, and caused by brain abnormailities at a functional neuronal and biochemical level. In that sense, thy are no more responsibel or abel to controlo tha a diabetic can contro their insulin response. I totally understand where you are coming from in terms of acknowledging one is unwell once properly diagnosed, and being as responsible as possible in terms of taking medication and other therapies, but the problem with bipolar is as I tried to explain , Loss of Mental Insight kicks in and can override these attempts at responsibility and of awareness of onces mood state and mental state. I stress again, this is at times of illness, for whatever reason, maybe poorly prescribed meds, or poorly taken meds, inaccurater diagnosis, or non compliance due to loss of insight or lack of acceptance, Not within the person's control any more than it is with the other conditions I mentioned, yet we dont expect that of other chronic conditions .This was my point however responsible someone is in terms of taking care of their illness or their loved ones up to this point of acute illness . I can asure you I am well researched, have addressed all these issues with 2 professors, of psychiatry, read atleast 13 books on Bipolar Disorder all by Top psychiatrists, one of whom is world renowened and has Bipolar herself, and by carers/ partner and others written by people with Bipolar disorder. I have attended 3 MND Bipolar Organisation groups, and I have lived closely alongside 3 people with Bipolar disorder for 12 and have 27 years in the medical professions. I think it shpuld not be assumed that only people with Bipolar Disorder understand this condition. hey may undestand how it feels far more, but many have not a clue how it presents or how the brain is affected, and are still in denial themselves about theor own behaviour and diagnosis,and do not even understand their medications, whilst others are very well versed in the illness on all levels. I am not just talking from personla opinion rest assured. Bipolar Disorder is a chronic illness and will therefore be subject to relapses and remmisions, all of which can be affected by how well someone is diagnosed, is treated, what therapy they are offered or are prepared to undertake, how qualified or specializd the therapst is . A Professor of Psychiatry told me only recently that there is a distinct shortage of appropriately ,specialized CBT therapists able to use an adapted type of CBT specifically tailored to Bipolar Disorder. Many will benefit from this but many will not if they are not sufficiently stabilized and able to engage in therapy or do not have the capacity or social support systems in place . Some benefit just from general counselling, but the counsellor really needs ideally to have good knowledge of Bipolar Disorder and many have scanty knowledge if any of the subtleties and complications of this illness and how it presents and distorts thinking. I am sorry of I have confused the matter, but this illness is very clear to me to understand but only came with extensive research and first hand experience, one I would rather have not had to go through ! I took it upon myself to learn all I could. I used to feel like you do, and that it was all down to the person taking responsibility. This is of course important but far too simplistic an approach, and puts the emphasis completley back on the individual who may in some cases have no or little control over their mood changes however hard they work on it. THis is emmensely frustrating for those who really do put the time and effort in to understanding teit illness, geeting well and staying well. of course all this can in some caseshelp and I am not dismissing it at all, however soem have far more severe forms or presentations of th illness, particularly with Rapid Cycling, or dysphoric types og mania/ hypomania. Some people are lucky enough to respond to their first medication, or maybe have very infrequent episodes, with amny years gap of normal mood durin whic time they can think rationally and start to work on relapse prevention, and putting an action plan in place , bd finme tuning medication, and making necessary lifestyel adjustments, and just hit on a good psychiatrist and the right combination of medications, and be offerred good therapy, but this is not reality for many people. This is a complicated illness and there are times during episodesthat come out of the blue that the oerson is not in control and was not responsible for an episode coming on. I feel it is wrong to makr them feel they are responsibloe for this any more than we would imply someone's cancer recurs. We have far more empathy and tolerance and sympathy for all other chronic conditions unless they are considered to have a mental health component, and this comes down to ignorance of what causes the ilness, how it affects individuals and stigma about mental health illness. The same applies to addictive illnesses ,how is viewed publically by tos who are ignorant of this field and how sufferes are considerd to have self inflicted illness. I is best not to rely on personla bloggs for your information from alone. I suggest you also consider looking at 2008 / 2009 American Journal of psychaitry articles, and do some work on Loss of Insight, loss of mental insight in Manic phases, and psychotic depression, and look up aggression and hostility during hypomania and mania. This often occurs without the persons awareness or ability to control and can come of of the blue, withouyt any trigger. These are symptoms of Bipolar Disorder, not behaviour or personality problems. IT is obvious when the illness is active as these behavioyes do niot occur alone as isoltaed symptoms. They are usually accompanied by 3-4 or more other symptoms or changes in energy, activity, speech, mood, mannersims, etc, not just difficlut behviour or agression on its onw. That way you know it is not personality, or the persons own behaviour as otherwise it would more than likely occur in the absence of these other Bipolar Symptoms. Hostilty and irritability in hypomania and mania, or frustrated irritability in depression which may cause someone to lash out verbally or be physically abusive, or mixed moods for example ,is rarely seen as an isolated symptom. There will be other symptoms to show that this behaviour is part and parcel of a active altetred mood swing an often out of chat=racter for the person. There si much research to show that alot of domestic violev=ce occurs in cases of undignosed Bipolar Disorder, and that it is sigificantly unbderdiagnosed and undertreated at therapeutic levels even in those with diagnosis, and that community monitoring is appalling in many areas. Much more responsibilty needs to be taken by the professionals who are supposed to be supporting and treating people witn this complicated and highly treatable illness, and far more education and involvement of families and carers, and far greater research into more effective treatments and therapies that actually work. Don't assume just because someone is on medication that it should work or that it will work or that because they are taking it they "should " be well or more able to stay well or take responsibility. It depends on the psychiatrist prescribibg what works for the individula s we all have unique brain chemistry. One size does not fit all. If it is ineffective, this will not be achieved and is an unrealistic expectation. Good luck with uyoiur research. Much can be learned from people who live alongside this illness. They often know far more that those who have it, and are far more rational about it, except of course exactly how it feels. IN tgis area those with Bipolar are the experts, but it does not mean they have the ability to act on. If this were the case, there would be np problem would there. You do need to understand and accept the basics of Loss of control over brain function, and loss of mental insight I feel. This does not negate all responsibilty during the stable periods. This was hard one for me to accept at first, but once understood and fully grasped it makes all the difference. I too shall continue my research to keep myself up to date.
9/28/09 11:29pm

so...

if I were to tell you that I have fairly accurate insight into my own state of mental being due to many many years of intensive therapy

seek help when I recognize needing it (even pdocs recognize this in me)

am in a stablizied period

am able to conduct myself rationally and reasonably as that of a productive person in society

and

that I do not commit abuse towards anyone

nor am I prone to any violence towards anyone in either type of episode or even in a mixed episode - outside of possibly committing violence solely to myself (have not done so in many years by the way) thus showing both insight and control

 

per your long winded responses here... I'd not have a true and accurate perception of my reality because of the illness, right? 

Because I have been diagnosed with Bipolar, per you, I have absolutely no insightful awareness of my own being, right?

and

 

if I understand you, which I may not so forgive me please

 

if one happens to abuse another and that person has Bipolar or is suspected of having Bipolar, that is not actually diagnosed (cause according to somewhere up there you said there is much research that shows a lot of domestic violence with those undiagnosed and diagnosed which would lead one to believe Bipolar equates domestic violence)

- then we should perhaps excuse because the abusive behavior is a symptom manifesting of the illness and the person has no real insight, even while medicated, into his or her state of being and/or control of their actions due to the chemical screwing of the brain, right? 

A person with Bipolar can not be responsible or accountable for their own illness or something to that effect, I think is something you said.  If I'm wrong, please correct.

 

Just want to understand you.  The long typed replies are hard to read and those who take meds may find it hard to focus and concentrate.

 

So, if you wish to answer, and it is completely up to you, would you please do so in short clear sentances?

 

9/30/09 5:15am
Dear Tabby, I am sorry if the sentencing comes out all in one long ramble. I am very aware it makes it harder for anyone to read it and concentrate, but it is not how I typed my replies. They were all in shorter paragraphs. Naturally I would not write in one long ramble. I did report this to Bipolar Connect and ask others on the blog for help on this. I had no reply regarding how to successfully post in paragrah form. When it finally appears , it does not represent my original typing. I shall reply more fully to your other points seperately as they are very valid. I have to go to work now so will post later today. Thank you. I am not at all saying that domestic violence is excusable or than anyone should tolerate it and stay with it, but that it is explainable, and can be understood in the context of some hypomanic / manic behaviour, dysphoric types particularly, wheere they may be loss of insight andawareness and control. I did say " May be " and "Some people", not all people. I have never stated that domestic violence "always" is found in or equates with Bipolar behaviour symptom presentation at all. Each person has their own pattern of behavioural changes when unwell as you know, and not all lose complete insight either. I stated that research suggests that Undiagnosed and Undertreated Bipolar diosrder may well be associairted with Domestic violence and may expain a greater proportion of it that we realize. There are ofcourse many other reasons, other behavioural difficulties and other conditions which can lead to loss of mood control. Mood encompasses thinking , feelings and subsequent behvioursso anything that alters the mood state to a considerable degree is going to show in all those functional areas. Even if insight is not lost, control over impulses and rages and very aggressve feelings is not within everyone's ability whilst in those very high mood states. Often the violence (or desructive behaviour, which may not always be physical , but other firms of financial sovcial damage o losses) is directed at the self or surroundings I agree . But we can not deny that it happens with Bipolar Disorder, and not deliberately, and that at that point people are out of control. Maybe you do not have this experience or have not witnessed it in others, but I can assure you it does exist and I do know many people this applies to. I have never suggested it applies to all or that everyione will reach this stage. It depends on the severity of the illness, the persons own symptom response, and the effectiveness of the tteatment. Being diagnosed and being on medication s only going to prevent some of these mood swings and behviours if the meduication is the correct one. Many people are medicated but still have severe episodes and behave completly out of character because they may not be on the correct or adequate amounts of the medication behaviour . It is not the full answer. NOt everyone has had the benefit of having years of therapy yet, or has found an effective therapist. Until the thinking is clear enough to benefit from talking therapies, it may in SOME cases have no effect.Some people indeed self managed and respond far better from the start on their medications so have ability to recognise when they are becoming unwell and do sonething before it escalates to such an extent where they can not control these potential high risks behaviours. I have not generalized to include everyone in tis scenario. at any point. PLease accept this. I did stress that this is only in some cases, and that acording to research about 50 % do have loss of mental insight at "certain points during manic and hypomanic phases " during which time they are not fully in control or aware of or directly responsible for their actions taken, and would not choose to behave that way if insight remained intact.I shall happily discuss later. It is entirely your choice if you choose to believe this or not. I do. There is huge body of evidence and reasearch and observation to support this and it is logical and makes sense. Poepll can and do act in differents ways from their normal charactrer hwen they ae not fully compos menits. That is a fact. ON tha level they are not responsibe because they have not chose to act in certain ways with a sound mind or with reason, rational thought. can you sdee what I mean ? I am saying these behviours are understandable and explaianbel, not that they should be exzcused. Sadly they will ofcourse have to accept the Consequences of course, just like anyone else. Many people have no conscious memory or only partial recollection at all of what they have said or done when manic , though at the time they appear plausib le and aware as if they are in control and making rational choices. The fact that they "MAY" in "SOME" instances have no recall afterwards confirms they were not as a aware or rational as they may have superficially appeared. This is a fact which you can confirm with any good consultant psychiatrist. msania does affect decision making and judgement very adversely in many cases, and the choices made are often out of character and out of control. Fact. These are not based on my personal opinions, they are based on consultation, years of observation, and extensive research. Even with diminished responsibility being confirmed. individuals still have to suffer the consequences. It does not automatically mean that they will devepol awareness or insight or any better degree of control. Some will,but some will not. It depends on the brain's biochemical ability to process on a cognitive level, the degree of illness, of functional deficit, and the willingness of the individual. Sorry I have to dash now. Thank you reading them and I am sorry if it so laborious . I would not write so much about bipolar if I did not care very much about it's impact on those with this illness, and was not so affected by it myself as a partner. I would like to share these understandings with others . I think it is worth taking the time to explore and read even if time consuming. Understanding helps forgiveness and years of misunderstanding and resentment. It helps if behaviour is understood completly and put in context. I hope it will on some level help with foirgiveness. I can not do anything about the sentencing and paragraphs I am afraid until I receive a response from the administrator. I have tried. I hope you have a good day today and thank you for exploring these ideas with me. I do value your comments and experience. Thanks again. Galaxy .
9/25/09 1:01pm

So, is throwing an ashtray at the wall in a rage (no other people around) considered violence? No drugs or alcohol involved.

Lately I have been in mostly manic state w some depression, also my ocd has gone up drastically as well (after the reintroduction of abilify and the onset of menopause, which really blows.)

How to tell how much of what is going on is medicine, and how much is menopause?

Anybody got any ideas of finding out the answers?

Thanks

PS- If I've got this writ in the wrong area or forum, please move it to it's proper place and notify me by email anything that might help find out answers or suggestions.

It's much appreciated.

 

9/29/09 11:34am

I have to agree with Tabby, too long replies and I can't focus well enough to ready half of it. I don't want to be rude but I have to say the same, could you please not write too long texts because it's hard to get into it we cannot focus and it's too much of an effort to do so. Thank you. Alex

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By Jerry Kennard, Health Guide— Last Modified: 04/12/12, First Published: 09/21/09