Is depression selfish?

6/ 3/08 2:43pm

Maybe self-involved is better word. When we're in the middle of it we think of how horrible our lives are and it's hard to let others in. I found that I did better if I would force myself to get out. I had a bad depression that lasted for 6 months before medication. While in this state, I stayed in my room watching tv, getting on the internet, and reading. I know I didn't take care of my family very well and I feel guilty about it now. Sometimes it's really hard to make yourself be a part of things because you just feel so bad. I don't think people who're depressed are intentionally selfish though. It's just hard to care for others when you're not doing so well yourself.

Rosebud

6/ 3/08 3:01pm

Before you can answer that question, I think you have to define both words:

Selfish by definition means self-centered, self-seeking, self-interested, egotistic.

Depression means full of despair, great sadness, full of gloom and misery with a feeling of hopelessness.

In my opinion and that of my trusty, tho very dusty dictionary, you are not being selfish when you are depressed. Selfish describes a character type (perhaps a character flaw). Depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain which some people control better than others.

That author sounds like he's one burrito short of a combo platter ... and they say people with MI are nuts!!

otterlo

6/ 5/08 8:04am

I have been so depressed that I could not lift my head up, much less do anything else. I hate depression and I want to be rid of it forever. I am a retired social worker and I am not known for being selfish. I find, however, that most people do not understand mental illness. As for myself, I don't speak of it anymore to people. It simply is not worth it. I have a few friends who understand and my counselor and this support network. I do not think depression and bipolar are illnesses of selfishness at all. I know that it is difficult and in my case, impossible, for those around us to understand but there for the grace of god go everyone. We never know when life will touch us with something and none of us know when we too may need a helping hand......Peace, Pam PS not everyone who writes a book knows anything and not everyone who speaks of god, knows god

bud

6/ 5/08 9:08am

AHAHAHA!!! Great comment! I agree with you...and when you break it down by definition...there you go!

bud

6/ 5/08 9:09am

....last comment referring to Rosebud

g

5/31/11 11:31pm

Where is the chemical imbalance test

HeyJude

6/ 3/08 3:26pm

Hi Lex.......You bring up some very good points. In my opinion, depression is not about selfishness. SELF ABSORBED is a much better fit. When I'm severely depressed, my ability to relate to the outside world and people is minimal. It's not intentional, it's brain chemistry - I have never met a selfish bipolar (well, perhaps 1 or 2). It is good that we can take what we read with a grain of salt and not accept an author's word as gospel truth.

Sounds like you have a very considerate husband. So do I.

Judy

Lex

6/ 3/08 7:08pm

Thanks ALL!!!

tabby

6/ 3/08 11:01pm

Want one better? I read a section about Depression from a very well known TV evang. that said that Depression was God's way of punishing and disciplining folks to not be so disappointed and feel rejected when something doesn't go our way or the way we planned. Meaning, because we are depressed we must be disappointed and feeling rejection due to something not being as we'd want it to be, or getting our own way about something and the depression is a way of punishing and disciplining us.

I've stopped reading her books entirely and this troubled me and depressed me further to think God was punishing me by giving me Bipolar for something or somethings I didn't have a clue I was doing wrong.

Lex

6/ 4/08 10:45am

That's impressive! Don't weigh yourself down with poo like that.

Rosebud

6/ 5/08 9:36am

.... but you know better than that, right ! ?? ! God doesnt work like that. Bipolar is in your DNA, which means you were born with it. It wasn't thrust upon you as a punishment .... tho I KNOW, somedays you feel like it is. You hang in there and know that all of us out here in cyberspace feel your pain and love you. In the meantime, lets all pray that televangalists crash and burn on the steps of hell ..... !! ~ Rosebud

Juleszoo

6/ 8/08 6:25pm

I was just wondering; if u don't mind telling me, was this Joyce Myers by any chance? I've seen her a couple times in the early AM and occ. her stuff seems a bit off. Thanks for info.

arby1959

6/ 4/08 7:43pm

No, Lex, it's not selfish. Its natural to look inward when feeling so bad. If anything, its more like we are haunted by it. I admit maybe not making a point of it to others if we are in certain situations might be better for them, but when one is truly depressed, that may look like we are being selfish, but I don't think we are clambering for attention all the time, if anything, I isolate when I am so miserable. Therefore, it isn't bothering anyone else. I think people misunderstand that.

Granted, we may have a lack of judgement, be impetuous to some degree, lack of emotional maturity and such, but depression isn't something so simple as to call it simply selfishness. Our minds and memories are just in another place than someone elses is, is how I see it.

g

5/31/11 11:35pm

eveything you just described sounds like being self absorbed to me.

Stormfuries

6/ 5/08 8:52am

Selfish being depressed??? How old is the book you read? The others comments were so kind and forgiving of this idiot who wrote such a stupid uninformed comment, but I can't be. Has the author ever lived in an almost perpetual state of depression of one degree or another most of the time? I rather doubt it considering the ridiculous outlandish remark that it's "selfish"!

The only "selfish" part of me is that I would very much like to NOT feel depression...and I would think that says it all.

Don't buy into all the oddball theories or opinions that the "normals" think such as "pull yourself up by your boot-straps" idea. This author must have been "manic" when he wrote the book...wonder how he/she feels now???

Sara

6/ 8/08 4:53am

I love your response.Made me laugh. Needed that. Thanks

Sue Ray

6/ 5/08 3:01pm

As I muddle through my thoughts on depression, despite the tears, pain, & frustration I've endured duing those early years when it hit. I one day found myself questioning... 'What do I need to learn from this experience?' (I fully expect we learn something from everything we go through). My answer, was one that made perfect sense to me...

1. There are others who suffer deeply, perhaps even more deeply than I.

2. People who are depressed often find themselves alone, feeling lonely, & unable to cope.

3. We probably have some similar experiences, and may even find it an eye-opening experience just to learn that we are not as alone as we think.

4. I believe that God designed us to live in community, sharing the good with the bad, sadness with joy, and so on. We weren't meant to be alone, espeically when we're hurting. But to be Supporting and encouraging of one another

5. Sharing our sorrows, joys, frustrations & struggles, helps us to see that we are TRULY NOT alone. Support Groups are great for this.

6. In doing this, we are able to help others, as we are helping ourselves. - That in most instances makes us feel good!

7, Depression may SEEM selfish to those who have never experienced or understood it, but in reality, in my opinion it is the selfish person who sees the person suffering from depression as doing so makes them selfish... Poppycock!! It would be much simpler if those thinking us selfish were to say... 'I know you're depressed, and this is a hard time for you right now. I just want you to know I'm here for you... and/or What can I do to help?' We might not have the answers right away, but hearing this, I believe will help us to feel supported, valued, loved, etc.

My experience has taught me that I needed/wanted to learn ways to help others who are struggling. In a few weeks I will be attending a training to become a Peer Counselor. I've always had a strong interest in helping others, in psychology & all that goes with it. I feel as though I've learned much over the last several years and truly hope to be of some help to those who are lost & hurting do to these illnesses.

Hugs,

Sue

It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect. Ps.18:32

tg

6/ 5/08 11:19pm

The moron who wrote that depression is selfish clearly knows nothing about the subject. I think the fact that we all "go under the covers" when we feel depressed indicates our desire not to burden anyone with our mood. Now that's what I call generous, not selfish.

I consider myself to be a reasonably intelligent person. It makes perfect sense to me that if I deliberately dont answer the phone, emails, invitations, etc. that one will be quite offended and consider my behavior to be very inconsiderate. Common sense. Yeah, this is just what I want to do. Piss everyone off. I love to make people think that I hate them. Especially my mother who worries about me daily, my husband, my sisters and my closest friends. Yeah. I want to upset everyone because I am bipolar and a selfish pig.

Everyone that I care about has learned how to understand me. They are being ignored not because I dont love them, but because my mind and my heart are temporarily out of order. There is no energy to produce thoughts and words. None. Lights are off and nobody's home. Immobile, not selfish.

I would love to chat with that jackass. I need his telephone number.

Friends, we either have to go on a crusade to educate the rest of the world about our condition or we just have to deal with ignorance. I dont have the energy to deal with either. At least not today.

tg

itllendintears

6/ 7/08 5:22am

One more thing, you will note that others who have bipolar also recommend volunteer work as a helpful tool for depression. No one says it's easy, but it's what works. Just because I am not bipolar myself doesn't mean my advice is not accurate or coming from someone who couldn't possibly understand.

Also, I did not call bipolar people morons or do any name calling in my statements as I see you chose to do. If you want people who don't have bipolar to be compassionate and understanding you should practice choosing words that are kind.

I know what you're describing about thinking you don't want to bother anyone with your depression and so you close yourself off to handle it yourself as an act of love. An act of unselfishness. That's the way you perceive it, so to be called selfish is the exact opposite of what you trying to be. My ex explained that to me and I see your side of it from knowing him. But, I think it would be beneficial for bipolar people to also try to see the other side of the coin. Just as you find it ignorant and intolerant for people not to get why you're shutting yourself off when you're depressed, it also feels extremely hurtful to others to not be validated for how your absence makes them feel.

That's where hopefully people who are managing the bipolar with their loved ones can come to an understanding and know that if today's a bad day, it's ok, and the bipolar person appreciates the love and support and so when they're feeling better they'll do something to make up for what they missed.

Both sides make big sacrifices and it helps no one to downplay the positive efforts of the bipolar person and the loved ones who act as caretakers. Family and friends need support too.

Sara

6/ 8/08 4:59am

Wait a sec. She was talking about author of the book. Not you. It's OK. We all think people mean us sometimes.

itllendintears

6/ 8/08 10:20pm

Oh. You're right. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

left wondering

5/24/10 12:42pm

you sound insane and defensive. you are very busy justifying yourself. if you are so intelligent then why can't you have some control over your state of mind. why does everyone else who loves you have to be a victum of your self absorbidness. really doesn't take much effort to only think about yourself. the hard stuff is developing good healthy coping mechanisms and investing the same energy into caring about others that you do about yourself. i know all about chemical imbalances, but i also know we can adjust them with mental exercise. get out of your box and don't be so rude, maybe you're the one who doesn't understand.

itllendintears

6/ 6/08 12:30pm

I do believe depression is selfish, but its not always intentional. It would not be productive or helpful if you're depressed to add the guilt of labeling yourself selfish and then just heap on more discouragement and self-defamation to a person who is already overloaded with those feelings.

However, I think it is powerful to acknowledge that depression, although it is not by choice, is a selfish disease. As you mentioned all the focus is turned inward, thoughts are consumed by how bad you feel and then all energies are put into making yourself feel better, or just wallowing in the depression. That is selfish.

I have found that taking care of myself is for my benefit, but also the benefit of my loved ones. I think about needing to have the health, energy and joy to be able to help others when they're in need and feeling down, or when they want me to be there for special moments in their life.

Depressed people tend to magnify their own problems and isolate themselves. Others may exhaust themselves trying to cheer up the depressed person and if the depressed person does not take action, they remain the same and wear out the people who care about them most. No one else can cure your depression, and allowing others to pick up all the slack perpetually is selfish, because friends and family believe they really are making an impact and then when they find after days, months, years that the depression remains it is so disheartening.

The most loving unselfish thing for a depressed person to do is to help others. Get involved with people less fortunate. It can be big or small, but ultimately it will give you the perspective you need to realize your life isn't as bad as it could be, plus it will help someone else in need and also it will give you the purpose and self respect you need to feel excited about life again. This will encourage you and your friends and family and hopefully get you back on track to seeing the world outside yourself.

Plus, who wants to spend all that time just thinking about themselves? What a waste of this one chance at life that we all have.

This is my opinion from having cared for my bipolar ex-husband whom I cooked and cleaned for, worked full-time for, managed all the bills, debt collectors, overdraft fees, scheduled all the Dr's appointments, dealt with insurance, took him to the hospital repeatedly, went to counseling with, bought him gifts, took him on trips, got him pets, left surprises for him around the house, massaged him, loved him, complimented him, cared for him... so on and so on. I tried everything in the book to make his life easy, fun and enjoyable and still no dent in that depression.

The only things that ever helped him were when he got involved helping others. Depression is like this black hole, the more you things you put into it the bigger it gets. Because you're constantly taking, becoming and even more and more selfish person. But when you give out good and stop feeding that black hole it gets smaller and smaller. That's what I think.

All the best to everyone dealing with it. It's certainly not easy.

tg

6/ 6/08 9:52pm

Clearly you are not bipolar, just a very angry, selfish person. You have a detailed list of all the things you did for your bipolar ex-husband. If you were such an altruist, you would have spent more time learning about his condition instead of how it affected you. You mention nothing about his experience with medications or support groups. Just about running errands.

I would love to help the universe when I am depressed. I would volunteer at hospitals, join the PTA, go back to school, you name it. Perhaps I'd even run for president.

Your suggestion of "helping others" while depressed is laughable. I find your words to be totally condescending. It reminds me of the "just snap out of it" attitude many of those oblivious to bipolar disorder share. The vast majority of contributors to these share posts are intelligent. So are the psychiatrists. For you to over simplify our condition by suggesting that we "help someone" while we are ill is insulting and ignorant, given your experience with a bipolar sufferer. If your husband was selfish, then by all means share your pearls of wisdom with a "bitter divorced wives" sharepost and dont blame it on his illness.

itllendintears

6/ 7/08 4:56am

I would like to reply to your comment since it came across very inconsiderate, rude and selfish. Exactly the way you were trying to say you and other bipolar people are not.

I have several family members as well as dear life long friends who are bipolar and I have sought their expert personal advice, read multiple books, consulted specialists, medical physicians, eastern doctors, holistic practitioners, nurses, pharmacists, spiritual counselors, family therapists, and so on to help educate me on bipolar. I studied the specific nutritional needs to support and aid the management of my ex-husband's bipolar, as well as investigated alternative options like light deprivation therapy, music therapy, oils, and more.

I spent my entire marriage doing everything possible to help my husband. When he was hospitalized repeatedly for suicide attempts I was the one that drove him in the middle of the night to the ER, the one that rubbed his back 'til 2 am while they sedated him and then had to be up for work in the morning with a happy face. I was thoughtful enough to bring him groceries when I visited him so that he didn't have to eat the hospital food. I bought him a special journal and other personal items to make him feel more at ease. For you to minimize what I did, when I was tired, and alone trying to do the best I could as running errands is highly offensive.

I didn't just pull my opinion on the subject out of the air.

When I went through surgery do you know how my ex cared for me in return? He didn't. I was bandaged and bleeding from the surgery area for a month and I was medicated and weak, and he brought himself home dinner and made me get up and cook my own meal. He was well enough to do that for himself but not to do a selfless kind act for me while he was feeding himself. That is selfish.

In addition to that he did things that were illegal, immoral, financially irresponsible and to my detriment and his benefit, and yet I stood by his side as a loyal and patient wife. I hoped and prayed every single day that we would pull through this together and things would get better. I was a 21 year old newlywed trying to understand prescriptions and side effects and triggers when I had expected to be vacationing and having dinner dates.

Do not judge my life experience and sum it up like that without knowing all the details. Your statement exactly proves my point that people with depression are so self involved that they can't imagine that anyone outside themselves is also depressed, feeling anxious, overwhelmed, suicidal, hopeless.

What I did for my ex-husband was a labour of love out of the depths of my core and exhausted me of everything I possibly had to give someone. I had to snap out of my own depression to figure out how to argue overdraft fees, handle prescription problems and prevent us from being evicted and handle the debt collectors and all the other stresses of life that he wouldn't/couldn't/didn't handle.

When he had energy and felt good, he used it on himself. The same with money and other things. Everything revolved around him. Why? Because he saw me as a happy, healthy, strong person who could not possibly be suffering as much as him, so he was the one that needed to relax and treat himself. He needed the attention, love and support. Never mind my panic attacks because I'm gonna wake up and find that the love of my life has killed himself, even though I've done everything in my power to cheer him up. I've sacrificed everything I need to survive so that he can live, and he still isn't sure he wants to.

Do I empathize for him and other people with bipolar? Of course. I still love my ex-husband, and I love my family and friends with bipolar. However, several of my bipolar family and friends have said that they do not give themselves a free pass to let the illness control their lives. After a point certain behaviors are selfish and they know they are the only ones that can get themselves to take their medication, to eat right, to get outside and to keep their appointments with their Dr.

I carried INTENSE guilt for not being able to cure (by thorough efforts or through a miracle answer to my prayers) or at the least better help my husband with his depression and bipolar, and that our marriage had to end in divorce. Those bipolar friends who are managing their illness with success, given ups and downs, but still with focus and determination, have all encouraged me that I did everything possible and now it is up to him. I should not blame myself and I should be proud of everything I did. That is my comfort, and he tells me the same.

The bipolar friends I have work with animals or at hospitals or in volunteer work and that helps them so much. When my ex was spending time volunteering at the hospital himself he felt so much better than when he was just at home in a dark room watching movies all day. That is where my personal observation and opinion comes from.

I also know personally dealing with the depression from my divorce I can start to feel sorry for myself and think no one understands and I'll never feel better, but if I get outside or do something thoughtful for someone else it gets my mind off me. I was not trying to oversimplify the battle against depression and bipolar. As I said, I was unable to defeat it despite my most sincere, diligent efforts and prayers; so I know it's no easy battle. I did not win the battle for my ex-husband, but I did learn some of why we didn't.

I have seen people with bipolar who make all their own meals, have a strict diet and excercise regime and have become an expert for themselves so that they can live the best life possible. I know although difficult there are people doing it. Unfortunately my husband was the type that just wasn't ready to do all that. He's into some very unhealthy, selfish, detrimental behavior. Me saying it's not selfish just to not sound too harsh doesn't change that it actually is and the consequences that have come with those choices.

I watched his patterns and could predict them and track them. Even with my warnings and encouragement to change his habits he would send himself into a suicidal state and us into financial ruin, just when I was getting us back on track. I would try to get him to help himself so it would help us. He was not ignorant, and he's not a victim. He's also not the only person that suffered because of the illness and the depression. That's what I think you may also not be considering. Typically it's not just one spouse who's depressed. If you're dealing with prolonged depression in a marriage both people become depressed.

Anyway, my statement was not meant to belittle the effort it takes to get out there and help others for someone who is depressed. But, I was trying to state, that sometimes, it is better to change your scenery, do something totally different and try to "snap out of it" for awhile as you stated in a negative way, but it is actually a practice many therapists will tell you is a positive thing to help with depression. I'm not bipolar, but I have been depressed, and I know for myself, I am selfish when I'm in that state of mind.

As someone else mentioned, depression and bipolar is like diabetes, it's an illness. You don't blame someone for having it, just like you don't blame someone for being an alcoholic. But, if the ill person does not take their insulin and loads up on sugar and everyone around them is worried sick, is forced to rush home from work to get them to the Dr.; or the alcoholic keeps drinking and as a consequence they drive drunk or beat their wife and kids or lose their job; that is selfish. There is treatment for those illnesses like there is treatment for bipolar and depression. People must avail themselves to that treatment and help and if they choose not to and negative consequences result and pain is inflicted on others, that is selfish. That is making a selfish choice not to manage your illness; albeit an unfortunate and unwanted illness, it is still yours and your challenge and purpose to fight it.

I hope that you understand my point of view better now and that's all I have to say.

tg

6/ 7/08 10:53am

Thank you very much for your detailed reply expressing your point of view and your experience with your ex-husband. I wish to say that I am truly sorry if I have offended you in my last post. I suppose I am triggered regarding this whole issue of selfishness.

I personally struggle each time I am depressed with offending everyone around me by becoming uninvolved with them on every level. I am consumed with guilt while this is all taking place. It's as though I'm watching this take place on TV and not being able to do anything about it. There's just no energy. I cant help myself. All of my passions are on hold - as are my daily activities such as cooking, food shopping, taking care of my home, barely walking my dog - and most important of all, interacting like a normal wife and mother. The vanity goes out the window too. Exercise clothes everyday, no make up, no beauty parlor, bad hair days, barely enough energy to shower. Not at all the person I am under normal circumstances.

THANK GOD we have the financial means to deal with my wild spending sprees. I am ashamed to admit how much I have spent this year on a variety of things that were completely unnecessary. The hypersexual aspect of mania is another whole issue for a different post. Mania is not pleasant for others when the "filtering system" shuts down. Sometimes it's either entertainment or road rage.

After the clouds pass and the mania subsides, the guilt, embarrassment and shame arrive. The social anxiety creeps in. It's time to deal with all of the consequences of the recent behavior.

I search for the answers daily for how to change my reclusive, self absorbed behavior after I have just finished complicating my existence.

I wish there was some other medication that I havent already tried yet to make things different. I wish there wasnt such a major difference from my "normal" behavior. I wish I werent so generous and outgoing so that my "selfish" behavior were not so obvious during those episodes. Perhaps being selfish 24/7 is better. This way nobody expects anything different.

For me, the worst symptom of this hideous ailment is the inability to care, share and be with the people I love the most during the rough periods. I have a wonderful family. I have always gone out of my way not to be selfish. It simply is not who I am. I just live with an illness that creates this awful characteristic. Imagine the inner conflict. With all due respect, I wonder if your ex has the same thought process. If not, then perhaps he is just selfish AND bipolar. I hope you were not married to him for very long.

Best wishes to you and thanks again for your perspective, it was truly appreciated.

tg

itllendintears

6/ 7/08 12:30pm

Thank you for your very kind and insightful reply. It reminded me of my ex-husband and why I stayed married to him as long as I did. I am certain you are a wonderful person. I am truly >tearing up as I type this< frustrated and confounded by these illnesses because in the end it was not a lack of love that dissolved my marriage, it was exactly what you described, the guilt he felt and his way of wanting to do something unselfish, setting me free.

The only thing is, I'm not free in my spirit. I still love and treasure him, as your family does you. The behavior, we know it's the illness, and we know many things can't be helped and we see you disappear into another place where you are motivated by your impulses or mood at the time. We hate the illness for it, but we never hate you.

My husband and I divorced amicably, we're even friendly to one another still and have a great deal of respect for one another. Now and then he'll call to say he's stopped using illegal drugs, or quit smoking, or he's eating good now, or taking vitamins, or playing basketball. I am SO happy when I hear this good news, yet it is bittersweet that I am not there to be with him for these moments, enjoying our life together. I sometimes think in my head, why didn't you do all this while we were married? I guess he did, a little bit now and then and those good times were why I stayed through the bad.

He's still having his ups and downs. I think he's back to smoking and I don't know how the other things are going with him right now.

Anyway, I hope my original post does not hurt anyone else's feelings or come across narrow minded or unempathetic.

I really wish for you and your family health and great happiness. The smallest thing, like just taking a minute to pull aside your family and say, hey, I'm really sorry I missed out on that BBQ or vacation or whatever, thank you so much for being patient with me; that can do a world of good for the ones supporting you. It's not admission of guilt, it's a way for you to give back to them the support they need and acknowledgment to help them keep going. This illness is their fight too, even though it may not seem that way.

God bless you and your family, warm love and all the best.

Sara

6/ 8/08 5:15am

Is diabetes selfish? Is the flu selfish? Is cancer selfish?

I think from your comments that these questions would strike you as ridiculous. For those of us who have been there -thinking that depression is selfish sounds the same way.

Yet, like having a baby, it's not something you truly understand until it happens to you.

I have a loving husband of 21 yrs. He has much difficulty understanding, but he tries. He has stuck with me thru everything. I still get amazed when I think about it all.And now I in grateful all over again that I am blessed with him.

tracy

7/ 2/08 1:31am

I agree with you. No one knows what being BP is like until they are walking in those shoes. BP and Depression are two very different things. And sometimes it is so hard to pull yourself up and do what you need to do. It takes time to find the right meds to help you pull yourself up and do what needs to be done. Being BP myself, I know what its like and sometimes I have to fight to make myself go on for my children, and there are days where I just can't do it no matter how hard I try. So until someone walks down the road in those shoes, They have NO CLUE

Brooke

3/27/11 12:20pm

I didn't finish reading it all because I'm heading to church soon.. but I just want to say that I am very thankful for all of the effort you made to your husband. You really did love him so well. It is amazing that you went out of your way to find nutritional information and everything which was actually the closest thing that would have helped him!! I'm very encouraged that he had someone like you in his life and I only wish he would have gotten better also. Now for the good news, along with Jesus Christ's wonderful guidance (if I didn't turn back to him) i would be a tremendous mess... idk about bipolar, I think I have a little bit of that too.. and psychosis... but people are right we cannot think outside of ourselves when we are depressed but it doesn't mean that what is depressing us is our unhappiness with life. when I am the most depressed it is because I have good things (even in my now divorced dads house with not as much as I used to have) but I woul be plagued with the fact that there are ALWAYS starving children and I could never enjoy my food because I felt bad that someone else is literally dying while I eat ice cream- so I try not to indulge but THEN with the depression it causes food cravings for carbs and sugars because our chemical imbalance is soothed with feel good foods (carbs literally create seratonin sp?) BUT carbs and sugars are bad for the underlying cause of MOST all mental disorders and chemical imbalances. So.. lol in the meantine, I'm thinking about starving child and feeling like an ABSOLUTE jerk because this buzzing in my head (the imbalance) creates this psychotic relentless desire to stuff face. Now, again, you think of yourself when you are depressed because you feel like such a horrible person in some cases and in other cases you are just hurting because people don't understand and they think you are selfish because of the actions you make but since you are too out of control in your mind you can't cope therefore you cannot even begin to explain to someone what is going on (because the thoughts are either racing or nearly coma like depending on the emotional stability of the day) ... you have a hard time putting thoughts into coherent form and that creates another anxiety when trying to be in social places which is why I feel that subconsciously most people choose to stay away from their friends and family because the stress of trying to explain anything or why you feel so down (it is painful in an emotional sense more than physical, but sometimes it is so bad that it is very physical too- tension, head aches, back ache, dim vision, poor hearing and most of all the mental fog makes you not be able to see the things that normally make you happy) a symptom of depression is disinterest in the things you are normally interested in. I don't understand it but when I'm depressed I would give ANYTHING to be interested or excited about the thing I am usually passionate about (this depresses even more because deep down you feel that the hormone imbalance and the chemical mess up in the brain just WONT create those warm fuzzies sometimes and tHAT is depressing) even my bf, it created a lot of relationship problems because I thought that my Lack of feelings for him was because I wasn't supposed to be with him but then I learned about what is truely causing the depression deep down and then it helps to know that I KNOW that I love him, I just don't alwys have lovey dovey feelings- in fact the way I felt would be so out of order that mentally depending on how messed up I was he would be SO ugly one day and completely handsome the next!! it was Bizarre and I hated it!!! He Always looked the same in reality but my mind and body are so messed up that I couldn't get past the nit pickys on my bad days ... I think it also causes perfectionism and obsessive thoughts so if I got caught on his hair sticking up man, I couldn't stop thinking about it and that is so superficial but (he also wasn't the sweetest at THAT point in time so the positive was not strong enough to pull myself off of whatever thought had STUCK- this literally happens and we can't help it very easily unless like I said we are able to pick out enough positives) this is the good coping mechanism that I would use but then there becomes the days where you feel completely hopeless.. that is the day you are either completely lacking in nutrition because your prior sugar binge has messed up your apetite and stopped your cells from healing and you can't see past the four walls of whatever small room you put yourself in to cry.... anyway. mercury poisoning is the cause... heavy metals. they keep your body from absorbing the nutrients as well as it should and it burns off your leptin receptors around the cell so it doesn't take in the insulin or whatever it is or maybe it takes in too much I'm not sure about the science because my brain is foggy today, yesterday I probably cried for a good hour and a half lol I mean wailed silently because everyone was asleep.. so I'm a little less coherent except that I had a salad and an avacado smoothie so the fact that any of these words came out is a miracle in itself Praise the Lord :] but uhh yeah, My relationship with God helped me to research and research and by his grace the woman I was babysitting for told me the key to EVERYTHING... one day she looked at my excessively blushing face and said "You know, I think you might have toxicity" and since then I have been on a healing journey that is thus far VERY successful. I mean, at one point my depression was coma like (NO KIDDING I FELt LIKE A VEGETABLE) around the time that my parents split because emotional stress flares up the symptoms so when my mom would come home and everyone was yelling the next day I would be brain dead and would be like that one woman who couldn't lift her head or hand. I had to have my bf pray me out of it a few times.. oh and one time it was sOooo cool he prayed and layed hands on me while I was in the bathroom floor eyes glazed over staring up into the lights unable to respond (truely) I didn't know what was wrong with me, I think it was after my birthday (right after my mom told me she was leaving) and we had gone out to eat... but I just couldn't enjoy myself. it was a few days after that I was going to go out with my bf but I was confused about if God wanted me to be with him or not because depression makes it hard for us to enjoy pleasure and I felt selfish going out to eat with him so when he got there I could not get off the bathroom floor. that is when he prayed for me and gripped my head and prayed but when he came to he didn't remember having layed hands on me and I had felt this strange since that jesus had his hand on my head because it was abnormal that my bf was gripping so intensely but he said I didn't touch you I just started praying and said he saw Jesus talking to him and discussing what was wrong with me that I was going through a hard time and that it was all going to be ok.. which is what he usually says and its true because I haven't had COMA like depression sense then.. lol I got my mercury fillings removed and I see my chiropracter about detoxing from heavy metals. I had a lab done that showed just how much mercury, lead, cadmium, asenic, aluminum, nickle and what not I had in my body. which was above average. I was also in a mold exposure when the brain fog was BAD BAD BAD that hurt worse having them all at once but she gave me something that cleans up the cells and helps us 1/4 of people whose genetics cause us to be more susceptible to biotoxins and heavy metals. The bucket tipped for me at a young age so instead of my body taking care of the toxins like many peoples do an ok job of if they are eating nutritiously and avoiding toxins.... (see I ramble like mad crazy and its hard to follow but please bare with me I used to be VERY much able to right essays that flowed and made perfect sense) before mercury fillings, mold, and my paretns divorce, and my bad best friend experiences. lol I'm coming slowly out of the dark now though, and my current state of depression is because my christian friends do not understand .. I eat very healthy and I try to share with them knowledge about poor food choices and I watch them eat and eat all of these bad for them foods and I sterss out because I know that they will eventually become depressed and ruin there bodies but the pain of it is... all of them are so indulgent and imature (not saying to be rude, only in truth because I am imature in my own ways I'm sure) they think because they are fine now that they can eat carelessly despite my efforts to warn them THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE WHERE I AM... and since they don't listen I get more depressed FOR them and I try to pray for them but I get so discouraged because all I really want is for them to listen to me because I heard this from God and his guidance but people don't respond to rebuke, people don't love rebuke.. and it says "for my people's lack of knowledge will destroy them" but I do pray and rejoice that every so often they pick up on it and choose a healthy alternative... in the meantime I am patiently awaiting my full healing through this obedience that I need to eat nutritiously and stay faithful to this detoxing so that one day I will have better words for them,, more convincing, more coherent, less overwhelming, and I will be able to study better and pull together scripture better because I will have my memory back! lol I have horrible memory also, and strangely enough it DOES effect your spiritual life because when I'm facing the negative thoughts of the enemy (and my depression) I cannot grasp the right scriptures to fully knock out the lies... I was even struggling reading the bible because I would read it in the wrong state of mind and it would make me fearful and confused... when if I would trust God with it he would show me in the right light what it says. (p.s. do read revelations!!! but NOT when you're depressed!!!!!!!!!!! hahahaha)

ahh ok my brain is about burned out and I'm so so sorry that this is not structured. I could say so much more but I really hope that this helps you feel better about your experiences with your (ex?) husband.. you did such a good job caring for him!!! God bless you for your deep love and efforts, I pray that you can draw nearer to him with this new knowledge and start a journey of success all your own!! amen!

:]

Juleszoo

6/ 8/08 6:36pm

I realize i've been as others mentioned "self-involved" during my dark depressions but I would put this question to the author:

Is having diabetes, cancer, MS, fibromyalgia, or any other time consuming years long disease selfish? All thsese things can take an immense toll on someone and make them unavailable to family members and friends.

This person is going to call us selfish just because depression is a disease that affects the mind and not the pancreas, bones, nerve endings, or anything else without stigma. I belong to a group called "Fight The Stigma" and if u remember the author or book name; I'd love to have it. People printing these things should made aware. My email is juliebob1126@gmail.com. Thanks for the information. And thanks for printing ur post.

tabby

6/ 9/08 4:46pm

I've read the comments and that was difficult being that focus & concentration is very hard these days....

Bipolar Depression is not selfish unless the individual uses the disorder to their advantage to manipulate others into excusing them for their behavior. For those who just purely suffer with it, it is a whole other thing.

It is insidious, cruel, horrifying at times when the psychosis hits, devastating to the one who is struggling with it. You take an otherwise energetic, caregiving, volunteering type person who sometimes for days, weeks, or months can barely lift their head, think possibly nothing except death, is in intense emotional and mental pain, and is battling the thoughts that are twisted in their head to just keep up. This is not selfish, this is a mind battle.

Then you take a wife, husband, what have you that doesn't struggle with Bipolar Depression who resents the heck out of you because you can't get up, you can't go to work, you take the damn pills but they don't work, and the "other" rides you about how you didn't do the dishes, mow the lawn, bills need to be paid, and how you are so utterly selfish only thinking of yourself.

Wife somewhere up there - resented her ex-husband. She said, at length, that she loved him, did everything possible for him, even brought meals to him while he was in the hospital and what did he do for her when she came home from surgery? Nothing except expect her to get up and cook her own food. Cruel, yes but she resentful? Yes.

Bipolar is a medical illness. It is bio-chemical. It produces mood swings, thoughts, and impulses. That is the bio-chemical inbalance. The bio-chemical inbalance does different things to different people. Some jump everything that twitches and spends money like water in a leaky bucket. Some just can't get up in the morning to make it to work or their child's school function simply cause they feel that they can't. The person's response to the mood swings, thoughts, and impulses are their own.

When I am going through utter blackness, cause that is what it is, I think about my loved ones, I think about my co-workers, I think about how they are struggling with me in the shape I am in at the time. I feel ashamed, which makes the blackness scarily more so.

It is vicious and insidious and it takes literally all one can muster to pull and claw their way back up out of the blackness that is set out to consume them entirely. I do not think solely about me, or what I don't have, or why my job sucks, all I know is that there is this intense heaviness, colors are gone, breathing is almost impossible, pain is excruiating, and all I want to do is die so that my loved ones won't have to "caregive" to me and me a burden to them.

I volunteer, I do things for others, even in the midst of that blackness. I still, at times, get to the literal edge of being swallowed into it forever.

Those who have not walked in a person's shoes who has suffered, struggled, and tried with everything they have to just take one more step while having this horriable illness, just does not get it. I pray that they never ever have to walk in someone with Bipolar's shoes, cause it wouldn't be something I'd even wish on my worst enemies. There are those who use the illness to their advantage in every way possible and who refuse to do anything to help themselves and then there are those who do everything they are told to do and still can't find relief sometimes.

Even the best meds out there, unless they basically cause you to vegitate & drool, sometimes can't touch the depths of it. Sometimes, there just aren't enough meds.

Suzanne

7/ 2/08 8:16am

I can see both sides (I do have bipolar 1 as did my mother). My father couldn't take the strain of living with my mother so he moved out & left us kids with her, which I think was incredibly selfish as she was abusive. Of course, our childhood ended up being very chaotic with her going in & out of mental institutions & attempting suicide (she did finally succeed when I was 15), etc. My father then stuck us in a boarding school.

I have to commend the wife who tried so hard to comfort & help her husband who had bipolar. I know when I get into bad depressions (& for me bad usually means such incredible emotional pain & guilt & shame & hopelessness that I think my family would be better off without me & then comes the overdoses). When I am that depressed, I am not thinking rationally. I don't have the ability to "think" myself out of the delusional thoughts & then I do extreme actions.

My behaviors from when I was untreated for my bipolar disorder were awful--even to the point of smoking & drinking heavily while pregnant with my first child & she then was born 2 1/2 mos. premature. NOW I have another shameful reason to feel worthless & guilt-ridden.

Both my children have had to be treated for depression so I have another reason for my guilt--passing along my defective genes so they have had to suffer with the pain of depression.

But there is another side of having bipolar that can also be compared to the examples of cancer or diabetes & that is taking personal responsibility for doing the most you can to improve your lifestyle to promote wellness & stability. Like the diabetic needs to follow a controlled eating plan & exercise regularly. Someone with lung cancer probably should quit smoking & try to choose healthy ways of coping (yoga, meditation, support groups, etc. rather than choosing to binge drink or use illegal drugs, for example).

As someone with bipolar, I need to make decisions every day. Is this activity or avenue of thinking (ruminating on past traumas, for example, instead of focussing on everything I have to be grateful for--a husband who has stuck with me; children who have forgiven & love me; medication that works most of the time; financial security; great medical care, etc.) that will promote my wellness & stability? Will I choose to binge drink or overeat or choose moderation, exercise or lie on the couch watching TV, read motivational material or fill my mind with crap, call my provider when I can tell I'm going "down" fast or just give up & take all those pills...

Every day I have the power to try to keep myself well. Of course, I cannot control my disorder completely. Even when faithfully taking my meds & doing all the "right" things I can have a relapse, as I did about 2 years ago & once again ended up in the ER with an overdose. I'm still trying to recover from the shame of that & to calm down the emotional pain that got me to that point. So my decisions now include individual therapy, dialectical behavioral therapy, support groups, close contact with my meds provider as my meds are being adjusted & mostly, trying to have gratitude that I am so blessed in other areas of my life.

annerie kotze

9/ 2/08 9:18am

I am going to anwser you with a question. Is somebody with cancer selfish? The anwser is no. It is a illness just as cancer is.

It depends what you do with it. you can feel sorry for yourself or fight it.

annerie

erm

2/17/11 7:35pm

Ive had depression for many years. But when i see other depressed people, i feel they are being really selfish by what they put their family/loved ones through.

But when it comes to me, i cant see it! This shows that depression is a selfish disease even though most dont realise it

I suffer terrible guilt sometimes thinking about how my behaviour effects others close to me, but when i get majorly depressed, i dont give a shit and become self asorbed/centred about my own problems

Its a guilt/feel sorry for me cycle that keeps repeating and after each cycle, I feel even worse

erm

2/17/11 7:58pm

The world is hardly ideal right now. But I personally long to be back in the days when materialism didnt matter.

A lot of the world's ill's come with the territory or being not as good as the next door neigbours. Behind the jones's

In the west, even the poorest people live a lifestyle that is far superior to third world countries average populace. But do we care enough really?

The west has grown rich by exploiting the third world and agreements like the EEC and NATA make sure that the developing nations never have a chance to develop in the first place

Are we responsible for keeping 2/3rds of the world in poverty to keep the rich western 3rd on top? Well its really hard to argue against it. We've heard of the devloping countries. In inverted commas of course. China,India and Brazil are the countries who have bucked that trend. But for Brazil, thats enormous mineral and petrochemical health, China the manifacturing hub of the world, and India has a highly skilled workforce combined with enormous mineral wealth too

Do we care that the west has raped the rest of the world's wealth? Yes I do. Us westerners should be riddled with guilt complaining about our poor welfare systems when some people get 500 pounds a week rent paid by the govt.... Shit we are sooooo poor. Free health care! Along with the child tax credits, family allowance, income support and whatever else is payed out totalling 700 pounds a week?

We are not poor. Even though that was a crude example, british people are not poor on a world scale. The people on benefits may be poor compared to some standard, but not a world standard. Perhaps this is why so many people are depressed out of their bloody minds. Some feelo guilt for exploitation of oil and gas from poor regions. Otheres are guilty that they arent arsed about it. Whatever? Let BP/Chevron/texaco make huge profits for our pensions in the west, and ecologically rape the environment of the amazon, gulf of mexico and other environmentally beautiful places that are important to the planets future!!!!!!!!!!!?????? If not... why not???? Could fuck you right up in the head like it has me. Who wants to live in a fake fuckin world where only money talks. Noit me thanks very much. Lets all hang ourselves!!! lol

erm

2/17/11 8:24pm

Also, I have been diagnosed with depression for the last 21 years. Its nice to say that depression isnt a selfish disease. But really its impossible to say one way or another.

In some cases yes, others no. I personally used to manipulate all my family members to fragment their relationships. IE. shitmixing, rumouring etc, until they all hated each other. All so that they couldnt get together to work out how unreasonhable I had been acting. So i wasnt going to get an intervention of some sort! Now that is selfish.

Next I was told my mother was really ill in hospital, and could die. I was 100 miles away in england, but i didnt even come back. Lucky she got better, but i didnt ass myself... Is that not selfish???

Then my father, who i had been estranged from for many years but had just made up with got terminally ill. He phoned me.. I said I'd come over to see him? Well I didnt. He died a painful death over 18mths from alcoholic cirhossis. I didnt bother visiting. Why? Cos i was depressed. Simple. I wont elaborate. But that was it. I was depressed even before my mother and fathers illnesses. They just compounded the hopelessness. I couldnt face it

My father died. I came home for funeral. All relations from all over the world came. I came back home. But....I didnt attend the funeral. Why?? I just couldnt face it on the day???? But things like that were normal for me for years. Unreliable. Still can be

But when i put myself in my father's sibling's shoes, I'd wonder why the fuck didnt his son attend??? And the truth is, I should have attended. I pussyed out blaming my depression when really it was just your average feeling awkward about meeting relativews i havent seen ever from canada and U>S>A etc.

I hate depression. Its a fuck up and social anxiety disorders.... Lets face it thoug, a lot of people with depression get self asorbed in their own massive problems to the detriment of their friends and relatives and because they dont realise how self asorbed they are in their problems, i have no problem calling some depressedpeople selfish including my god damn self!

erm

2/17/11 8:30pm

comparing cancer and depression is pretty lame. I dont buy all this shit about brain imbalances causing depression. Cancer is a disease that eats away at cells but depression is a hard to define psychiatric disorder which isnt the same.

Sorry. Totally different fields of medicine

Psychology and Psychiatry are not like other sciences and proved by empirical data. Both are pretty much evolved theories

Duartwork

5/ 7/11 6:08pm

I use to have a college friend that everyone said she was depressed. After doing everything for that friend, I even did her homework, her parts in groups work, call her to see if she was allright, I went classes and then give her my notes while she stayed home, I was always concern about her, and so many things more. Now that we are going to graduate, she barely speak to me, and she have what she wanted. Now I understand that many depressed people can be selfish and egocentric. I also have a familiar person at home, and she is doing the same thing. She spend all the time complaining and sigh about small problems and insignificant things, she even sleep at day, and at night she start with all that complainings, psychosomatic fellings, and doesn't let enybody sleep.

Me, after 4 years of this I feel mentally tired and exhausted. Sometimes I just want to get away from it and never see those people again and forget all that. I have my own problems, my life is not better then those people; I think is the other way around.

Anyaway, being depressed just because, is not the same as being depressed because of a loss of some one, having cancer, having a terminal desieses or things like that! There is some people that goes down very easily, but sometimes they have to get up by their own. But it also depends

This kind of depressed people have some characteristics, like:

They want all the people to pay attencion to them, but they dont care very much about others exept themselfs and their problems; sometimes it's like they feel that they have to be better then everybody else, or everybody else must say they are the best.

They get lazy, expecting other people fell sorry for them and do their things or forgive them for their mistakes.

They bring others down, or just cause exhaustion to other people around because those people get tired of all that lame complaints, lamentations and mourning, and being all the time there for those pople.

Their problems no matter how small they are, are allways bigger then everybody else in world problems and they like to create dramas about it;
I give you a good example. A person who live with me had an itencional headache (when the person is anxious and in a depressive state they create the ilusion of that). After i knew what was going on, I said: "A headache is not bad and you'll see that will disappear, look at Julia's grandfather, he had cancer and had lots of pain because of the chemotherapy and surgery, and he got allright". And that person said to me: "Yes, but he never had such pain like this, if you had a pain like this you would see, the problem is that nobody knows how painfull is a headache like mine". For love of god how can a headache be worst then cancer and all the tratements?

I am studing nursing and I already did a internship in a psychiatric institution, and there I noticed some cases like that, I even discussed that with the coordinator nurse and a psychiatrist, and they even agreed with me, that some people want attencion or something else and thats a way to get it. But sometimes people do it unconsciously, but without any concern the harmful effects that make to other people (family, colegues, ...)

I even saw a psychiatrist to get angry with a patient who was already three months without working. The psychiatrist said: My dear lady, I will not collaborate with you to not going to work. You have to get over it, you had all the possible medication, you have a family that loves you, you have a good job".

Sometimes depressions like that, are a vicious cycle of whining to get what they want. And that is pure selfish, specially when there is no reason for that, and when so many people have bigger problems.

Donna-1

9/24/11 5:36am

I admit -- I did need some help when I was severely depressed. I depended in great part on a co-worker who did his best to rescue me. And I will appreciate that for the rest of my life. Yes, we have grown apart now. And sometimes I DO feel I just used him to prop me up. I have discussed it with him and asked his forgiveness. But it probably irreparably damaged our relationship.

me

5/ 1/11 7:32am

How we feel is a choice! Negative emotions change the brain's chemistry. So it follows with commonsense the more negative one is over a period of years the more likely one is to develope a true mental disorder. Just as years of physical abuse WILL cause physical illness!

Happiness is also a choice. As are joy and a productive rewarding life.

I choose that!

Donna-1

5/ 7/11 7:55pm

I never thought of depression as being selfish, although I can see why others think it is. Because it takes you away from them. It removes you from the relationship equation at times because depression can make you want to withdraw into yourself. But when I was at my most depressed, I was trying my best to find a way to recover. I don't think that is selfish at all. Right now, I can see that someone might think that my depression is selfish, though, because I am taking care of myself. I am avoiding stress, and that means avoiding some people and places and events.

Gloria

9/23/11 11:05pm

I think that some people on this post have misunderstood the context of the author of the book, as well as missing the point in the question.

I think it goes without saying that the former wife of the man with bi-polar disorder was a true angel and did absolutely everything anyone could have expected, and she rose above and beyond the call of duty in order to do this. I wish her all the best in healing from her own depression and having a happy and healthy life!

BUT, as someone who is bi-polar and depressed, myself; I have to say that whether you are on the outside (significant other) or the sufferer of a mental illness, IT IS SIMPLY SELFISH. It is not deliberately so, and it is not to say that it negates moments of remorse, guilt and shame; but none of these things discredit or remove the fact that when you are in the midst of a psychotic episode or mania or a depressed haze, other people have to take care of everything that YOU should be well enough to take care of; and due to no fault of your own - or theirs for that matter - the things which need to get done do get done, often hurriedly, tensely and with grave consequences, and ALL by someone other than you. Add to this that this often continues for extensive periods of time, taking an emotional, mental and physical toll on them, I have not heard a single person on this thread acknowledge that their illness might have caused OTHERS to also become depressed! Surely at least one of you who are currently well enough to sit behind a computer and attack the author of a book, can take two minutes to consider that your carers have a vast array of emtions, fears, weaknesses and insecurities as well; and yet they THANKLESSLY take care of you at the best of times?! Yes, of course when we are well, we take care of our families, but why shouldn't we? We don't do it without thanks and appreciation and an expectation of sensitivity to our issues; why do we not extend the same courtesy and accept some criticism from those who are plainly suffering due to OUR illness?

Comparing cancer and diabetes to depression or bi-polar is childish, and shows a real ignorance of mental illness. Are those who continued to justify their selfishness quoting such a ridiculous analogy really mentally ill or are they seeking attention here? Cancer sufferes generally do not threaten and attempt suicide on a repetitive basis, go on binge drinking sprees, spend money haphazardly, withdraw suddenly, cancel appointments REPEATEDLY, skip family members' funerals and compare "pity" stories online for the 2 and a half year duration of their chemo or radiation therapy. Nor do cancer patients require extensive and specialist TEAMS of carers on an on-going basis, for example. They still have comparative control of their MIND even when undergoing the most intensive therapy. And don't even get me started on diabetes. Manic-depressive people do not!

I have found that despite being unable to control my thoughts, actions, cravings and desires when I am really ill; if I allow myself to start to feel like, "no-one else knows what I am going through" this is selfishness. Why? Because no-one; even a loved one; should be expected to do this or held at a ransom if they are unable to! Based on much of what has already been said, a lot of depressed people seem "entitled" to be unreliable, self-absorbed, self-pitying but above all ABOVE reproach (refusing to accept an alternative viewpoint and dismissing genuine attempts at making depressed people more accountable as being evidence of us as 'misunderstood').

Our significant others stand by us when we are ill and pick up the pieces of our lives that we have unintentionally shattered. It doesn't matter that we don't intend to hurt them by our withdrawl; the point that the author makes is that WE DO. I don't see being called selfish as a criticism or an ignorance of mental health as much as it is really a whisper from those who do not suffer from mental health saying, "Hey? I'm here and I am hurting too. I am hurting for you and I feel as alone as you. I am scared for you, I love you. Please don't forget to say thanks for putting myself on the line for you when you were unable to do this for yourself." To refuse to acknowledge this is simply to be selfish. Mentally ill and selfish.

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