I have a friend who is Stage IV breast cancer. This is her second round with cancer. She has lobular carcinoma. She is Stage IV. The tumors are on her spine, hips, pelvis, chest wall and lymph nodes. Based on this set of facts, what is an anticipated life expectancy for someone in this position? Will this eventually spread to internal organs? if so, any time frames?
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Q: Stage IV life expectancy?
Answers (6)
3/ 4/09 9:48pm
Cindy, there's just no way to predict anyone's life expectancy, no matter how many facts you have. Some women live for many years with stage IV breast cancer. Others don't. Which group will your friend be in? No one knows. Until they stop treating her - i.e., they stop the chemo or Herceptin or anything else she's taking - they still have hopes that she'll live. It's when they stop treatment and suggest hospice that you know her time is limited.
All of that said, I'm sure this diagnosis makes you realize your time with her — everyone's time with her — is all the more precious, because it might very well be limited. Treat each meeting as if it's the last - not with sorrow, but with joy that she's still with you. Be thankful for each day with her. And pray and hope for the best outcome possible. Good luck to you both - PJH
12/14/11 5:32am
Dovie, I'm so sorry you're all having to go through this. Each of us handles severe health challenges in a different way; unfortunately, some are so frightened (or so confident) that they ignore the small signs that something's wrong; and that "something" becomes devastating, as in your mom's case.
It takes strength NOT to become bitter in a situation like this, so it's not surprising; it sounds like she's had other life issues contributing to how she feels, as well. As you say, all YOU can do is try to love her. But a professional could offer other support; would she be willing to go to counseling? Probaby not if you suggested it, right? But what about a referral from her doctor? Hospice has been incredibly helpful to a lot of people, and it's not just for those within days of death. Many hospitals have a palliative care unit that can be hugely supportive to patients such as your mom. So, perhaps a bit of gentle steering could get her into a program like that.
As for the drugs - the amount of time they're prescribed for really doesn't say anything about life expectancy. Many doctors don't want to share their feelings about "how much time left," as they feel it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Perhaps if you asked her oncologist directly, s/he would give you an educated guess; but at the end of the day, as you say, "who knows?"
Again, I'm sorry for your troubles. Please come back here any time; we're here for you. PJH
12/14/11 5:51am
I don't know how much your mom is letting you be involved with her doctors and decision making issues. The best thing for her would be to get involved in a palliative care and/or hospice organization for pain management and counseling. She may be wishing for death because she fears an extended time of pain. The palliative care/hospice folks are THE experts in pain management. Another option is an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medication.
As you say, no one knows how much longer she might live. While the cancer was only in her bones, the answer was years. Once the lung is involved, the prognosis is not as good, but it may be that the spot will stay small and that she will be able to do well medically indefinitely.
Your story sounds very familiar to me because I had a close family member who went through a similar process with her cancer. Ultimately, each of us chooses our own way of dealing with serious illness and death. It was hard for us to honor our family member's method of dealing with cancer and imminent death by denying the whole thing. But eventually we realized that we needed to let her do it her way.
Your mother is lucky to have you there loving her in her bitterness. I know it will be hard, but hang in there with her. Let any mean comments roll off your back and do what you can.
12/14/11 5:52am
I don't know how much your mom is letting you be involved with her doctors and decision making issues. The best thing for her would be to get involved in a palliative care and/or hospice organization for pain management and counseling. She may be wishing for death because she fears an extended time of pain. The palliative care/hospice folks are THE experts in pain management. Another option is an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medication.
As you say, no one knows how much longer she might live. While the cancer was only in her bones, the answer was years. Once the lung is involved, the prognosis is not as good, but it may be that the spot will stay small and that she will be able to do well medically indefinitely.
Your story sounds very familiar to me because I had a close family member who went through a similar process with her cancer. Ultimately, each of us chooses our own way of dealing with serious illness and death. It was hard for us to honor our family member's method of dealing with cancer and imminent death by denying the whole thing. But eventually we realized that we needed to let her do it her way.
Your mother is lucky to have you there loving her in her bitterness. I know it will be hard, but hang in there with her. Let any mean comments roll off your back and do what you can.
3/ 5/09 10:37am
Hi Cindy. There are some positives in the information you've provided. Stage 4 is serious, but is even more serious if there is cancer in the brain, lungs and liver - which you haven't included in your list. In general a figure of 20% is given for 5-year survival of stage 4 breast cancer, but you have to think carefully about this. You can't tell whether a person will be one of the 20% or not. A friend of ours had leukemia about 10 years ago and was given a 7% chance of survival. He is still with us. Look also at Lance Armstrong. Finally, I recently met a woman at the oncology clinic who has been battling stage 4 breast cancer for SIXTEEN years. Sometimes it seems there is no rhyme or reason.
The value of statistics, to my mind, is in allowing you some hope while keeping you realistic. The doctors these days are pretty good at keeping people alive and who knows what breakthroughs will be made in the coming years?
To help your friend, I think you need to gently share information with her and to help her frame questions to ask her oncologist. If I were your friend, I would be wanting to fight cancer with every weapon at my disposal and to find the strength and courage to face whatever the future brings. You have it in your power to help her do this. Be sensitive to what she needs from you.
Best of luck to you both
Sue
4/ 6/09 11:11pm
My wife is 34. She has been fighting for her life for 13 years. It started in her breast when she was 21. Doctors removed the breast and treated her. A couple of years later it came back in the bone then the brain. Last week we found out she has a diffuse live(full of cancer). In one week she has gone from a 4 to a 9. She can not think straight,has yellow skin and eyes, and lots of pain. We have called in hospice to make her comfortable. I guess what I'm saying is nobody knows how long. 2 weeks ago we were at my sons rodeo haveing fun. This last week has been a nightmare. I have a 16 year old daughter and a 13 year old son. They are haveing a really hard time with some regrates about the ay the took her life for granted. I have alot of regrates also. So love your friend and tell her family to live ever moment because you never know. Even before the past there life has really ended. Best of luck
2/ 5/10 12:46pm
Aaron-
I hope your family is sticking by eachother durring this time. I know your response was almost a year ago now, but it has hit home for me on this day Feruary 5, 2010 as my mother in law has been diagnosed with advanced metastatic breast cancer. My soon to be husband lost his fathter to lymphoma about ten years ago now (my fiance is only 28) and is now faced with this hardship. While we still carry hope, we also understand that God's will be done. Your message is so true that you need to love and live these moments as you would never have them again. I cry as a write this because the selfish part of me wants her here and wants a miracle. I will keep your family in my hearts and may your children try and find comfort in you.
10/19/10 2:03pm
im so sorry to hear about your wife. im a 49 year old woman with stage 4 breast cancer with 3 kids 17,22&26 im a single parent and im working and thinking positive but i feel bad right now and with no hope but the fact that i'm alive right now. I wish you and your family the best and will pray for you. bonnie
10/19/10 4:01pm
Bonnie, hang in there. Where there's life, there's hope - we never know when the cure (or the next great treatment) will be found. Best of luck to you - PJH
10/19/10 8:11pm
thank you so much PJH. I appreciate your reply. I'm trying to think positive. My cancer doctor said that we are getting rid of the cancer, my other calcium doctor said that once the cancer has spread to other parts of the body, its just a matter of time before death. to live it up. but i cannot live it up because im working to keep food on the table and medical insurance for my kids. if i give up and quit, then we will be homless in addition to me having cancer. my kids are in denial and when i pass, im afraid for them. who will take care of my kids when im gone? Life is so unfair. I wont let this cancer take me and i'm going to give it my best fight ever to stay alive. Staying Positive and thinking my self well, and thinking there is hope and that the doctors may come up with something soon and to hear that from you also, gives me hope. thanks PJH thanks for the hope. bonnie
10/19/10 8:30pm
Bonnie, you're experiencing the worst fear in the world - fear of leaving your kids alone. You know, thank God they have one another... is there any other family around? I'm also glad that they're a bit older; old enough to ultimately be able to figure out how to move forward, should you not be there. But as I said, there's always hope. I know there are many women in stage 4 that have been keeping cancer at bay for years and years... I truly hope you're one of them. Best - PJH
5/ 3/10 8:29pm
Cindy D,
I can realte to what your friend is going through right now and how you both feel. I now have Stage IV lobular breast cancer and my Dr. told me the prognosis was about 5 yrs. It has spread to 3 places in my spine, my femur bones and ribs, hips and on my lung where the tumor has grown upward in between the lung and chest wall and is at the top of my breast bone as a lump. I'm on Femara and receiving Zometa via IV. My original oncologist and breast surgeon said that you can live with stage IV cancer for 10-15 years. I had to switch doctors/hospital because I have NO medical insur. and this hospital has financial assistance...THANK GOD. I lost my job in 2006 and haven't been able to find another full time job or even a temp. job now. I'll be 63 in 2-1/2 mos. and I guess my age is against me as far as a job now. My original breast cancer was in June 2000 which resulted in a masectomy and 5 mos. of chemo. Was "cancer free" Jan. 2001 and then went on Tamoxifen for 5 yrs. Being that I went for about 10 yrs. before it came back, I consider myself lucky but I intent to fight it this time the same way I did back in 2000. I think it'sall just a matter of time for all of us and when God thinks it's time he takes us......we just need to enjoy what time we have left as much as we can and you need to enjoy your friend as much as you can too. There are improvements every day in cancer treatment and we all need to hope there will be one very soon for this terrible disease.
Bonnie B
7/ 8/10 9:09pm
I have battled breast cancer since 2001. I had chemo,mascetomy,more chemo and radiation. For the next 7 years I went for my exams and wondered whether the cancer was gone. I started to fell awful, complaining at each doctors visit and finally I must have convinced him and sure enough the cancer had returned. I started treatments all over again. Chemo and radiation weekly. Now since 2008 I have battled again. Just until recently I did not know the life expectancy and for some reason I asked my husband what it would be. He had been told at the offset that it was 18 months. I have passed that point but it is coming to the time where I am unable to take chemo treatments due to the side effects, mainly the heart effect. My ejection ration has been as low as 32. Follow your heart and pray daily. Prayers have been answered.
7/ 8/10 10:10pm
I add my prayers to yours, Sheena. Blessings to you- PJH
7/ 9/10 8:26am
I'm thankful for the nine years you have survived despite the original prognosis. I hope knowing that others who read your post here will be praying for you helps give you strength for the next steps in your journey.
8/ 1/10 7:34pm
Hi Sheena....your note touched me....I have stage IV breast ca after 7 years and I have gotten state of the art treatment....I hope you are hanging in there. I have decided not to take any more treatments as I think it is in my children's interest not to do so...love
8/23/10 10:59am
Hey..sometimes you type in something in the seach engine and you read peoples comments but you never contribute anything. Today I am sitting at my desk with tears in my eyes waiting now for over 4 weeks to get some results on the testing that should've been done on the mom's breast tissue (masectomy for Infiltrating lobular carcinoma was done 7.23.10) and reading all the comments on this blog and I just want to say thanks to all the persons who take the time to write their feelings & experiences because it really helps - by writing we give each other hope and moral support. Personally I think we must remember to pray for God's will in our lives and have faith that his master plan is best.
8/23/10 4:05pm
That's crazy she hasn't gotten her pathology report yet - did they say they're backed up, or...? She probably can't start treatment till the path results are in, so sounds like you're all on hold. I'd start calling every day to politely ask, "Are Mrs. X's lab reports back yet?" Maybe they'll get tired of hearing from you and grease the appropriate skids. Best of luck - and come back whenever you need to connect. We're here for you - PJH
9/ 8/10 11:30am
I stumbled across your posting while browsing the internet for information on life expectancy, etc. and it really hit home as my wife has been going through the same things. I'll relay her story, from my perspective, in the hope it might help someone, and also maybe someone out there can give me some help and ideas.
My wife has stage 4 metastatic breast cancer that has spread to her brain, lungs, and now we found out she's got a couple of spots on her spine and one inoperable in her neck, I guess at the bottom of her skull. She's been battling cancer for over 8 years. She had a lupectomy in 2003, followed by two rounds of chemo, and 7 weeks of radiation. And for the next almost five years she was fine. All during that time she'd been in maintenance mode on Tykerb.
Then in 2007 she had what appeared to be cold symptoms with a lot of coughing. After regular treatments for a few weeks, she went back in for an examination, and they asked for X-Rays, then MRIs, etc. and they determined that the cancer came back in her lungs. She restarted Chemo again, on top of the Tykerb.
Then she insisted on having a head scan, against her oncologists will. And they found that the cancer had spread to her brain, with just a couple of spots at first. After many tests and consultations, they scheduled surgery to remove the tumors. But at a prep visit for the surgery, they did another MRI and cancelled surgery as there were now more tumors than they can handle with surgery.
They suggested Gamma Knife, which she did over the course of many sessions spread over a couple of years, where they treated over 30 spots. Most of the treatment went well and the tumors went away. She was also taking Avastin and at one time or another she had also taken Herceptin, Zelota, and other stuff. She also had to monitor her heart, and she had to stop treatment a couple of times as her heart ejection ratio dropped down to 29%.
But a few months ago they found that a few spots looked active, and there was swelling around them. They weren't sure if the tumors had come back, or these were side effects of the treatment.
She started having seizures and blackouts. They gave her steroids to shrink the swelling, and seizure medication. That caused her to gain a lot of weight, and have other side effects. Then after determining that the spots were active tumors, they suggested full brain radiation, which she had been avoiding from the beginning.
She just competed, a couple of weeks ago, about 25 sessions of full brain radiation. First she lost her hair, again for the third or fourth time. Now she's been having pains in her back and pelvic area; constipation, and bladder problems. She's been also throwing up to the point of dehydration. She's been to the ER three times already in the past two weeks, and she's been to her oncologist several times so that they can put an IV and get her hydrated again, and give her some meds. They put a catheter, several times, to drain her bladder and relieve the pressure nad maybe the pain. Now she's had one for the past five days, but the pain is still there.
She's done several MRIs, Cat Scans, Pet Scans, etc. and they still don't know what's causing the pain. They keep saying that nothing alarming shows up on the scans.
Yesterday they started talking about hospice care, and that scared the hell out of me. I don't know what to make of it. I understand that her cancer is most lilkely terminal, but I am still hoping for a miracle, and the talk of hospice care shuts the door to that...
And to add more complications, I'm 3000 miles away. Unable to find work for several years in California, I finally agreed last year to take a job in DC. That's how I can provide for her and the kids, including insurance. We didn't want to move her so that not to disturb her treatment, her doctors; clinics and healthcare providers in the area know her, etc.
I've been going back every few weeks; I'm going home this Saturday for 8 days. I'm between the rock and the hard place And I don't know what to do...
Sorry for the long post, and thank you for reading...
10/19/10 8:19pm
hang in there eazman, i know what you are going thru and ill pray for you. keep checking in here and we can maybe help you get thru this. I'm praying for you right now. i have cancer but i can pray too! and i love this site. im going home where there is no computer, but ill be thinking of you and your family and praying for God to release the pain and cancer. take care...bonnie girl.
5/21/11 7:51pm
All of these stories are both heart felt and scary for me, since my mom has stage iv breast cancer and it has spread to her lungs, liver & brain. Im her only child & we are terrified of what anymore scans could show. Though the doctor says it's treatable & the spots aren't plentiful, it's still very alarming & he feels like he has let us down. We keep praying & hoping for the best. She had a mastectomy last year and is on her 2nd chemo drug. It's hurtful because none of this would be happening if it wasn't for an irresponsible doctor from Kiaser (BeWARE) telling her that the lump she felt was "normal." 2 years later we found put it was cancer. I will keep all of you in my prayers & no matter what, we have to keep fighting for a cure & spread awareness!
5/21/11 9:11pm
I'm so sorry you and your mom are having to go through this; I hope the chemo holds the cancer at bay for as long as possible. With stage 4, there's no telling what will happen, especially when it's spread to multiple locations, as it has with your mom. Take it day by day, week by week, and try to stay positive, to believe the drugs are working and you and your mom still have some good days ahead of you. I'm sure many women here will be keeping you in their prayers, too... Take good care - PJH
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More of a ? than a comment. My mother, 74, had her left breast removed July, 2009. The size - why she hid it I do NOT know! It became so obvious that I kept making comments, asking questions. She would snap, "It's just my bra!" She finally went to the Dr. when her bowels locked up. They said surgery right away. After surgery I saw the pictures. The growth inverted her nipple and looked like 1/3 head of cauliflower protruding from her breast. She has been taking bone treatments for 1.5 years now. There is a spot in her lungs, also. She is becoming very moody and bitter and speaks as if she wishes she could/would die. There have been things that have happened to depress her, I know, loss of her house or the inability to live there-condition and size of the yard. The bitterness really concerns me. Is this just a part to be expected? I have read several articles where life goes on for some, and not for others. Mom's age concerns me and the fact that they prescribed the bone treatment for two years. Is that how long they are allowed to give it, or is that the time frame they are expecting? I know, "Who knows?" I just don't know what to expect. Just give her all the love that she will let me give - not much it seems, sometimes, and hope, pray for the best. doviem@frontier.com