Everything you say here is true, John, especially about our expectations of what we'll get from people. I've found that the only people I can really talk to about it are my therapist and doctors. I know that not all of them out there are good to talk to, but I'm fortunate that mine are. I don't have to be afraid of being judged or "preached" to. I remember one time, years ago, the first time I was in therapy, my mother accused me of spending all my time there talking about her! This was one of the few times in my life where I had the guts to tell her that there were other things in my life besides her, which shut her up. It was very scary to admit to anyone back then (late 60's) that you needed help, it felt like a big secret everyone had to keep. My grandmother asked if I wasn't just doing it for the fun of it. Fun??? Ah, well, she didn't know any better, but that's the kind of thing that generates so much shame about it. I know now not to expect any understanding from anyone among my friends and family and I think I've made my peace with it.
Thanks for bringing up this topic because it's wise to be careful who you trust with your darkest self.
Hi, Judy -
My first experience with therapy was also in the 60's, and I can't remember talking about it very much. I wasn't consciously ashamed and had no hesitation about going to a psychiatrist when I needed help. It just wasn't the sort of thing you talked about, except - possibly - to your closest friends. Even with the ones who were also in psychotherapy, I never shared much more with them than the fact that I was seeing a psychiatrist - not what I actually talked about.
It's so much easier to discuss depression these days with all the publicity and inescapable tv ads. But I guess there will always be plenty of prejudiced, closed minded people who don't want to hear about emotional and mental difficulties in themselves or anyone else.
John
John
Some things in life, you can imagine. And these days, maybe our imagination is helped along by a wealth of incoming sensory information. I have seen someone find another person mercilessly murdered so many times on TV and in movies, I think I have some idea what it might be like. But maybe not. No matter how "realistic" these CSI scenes are you know they must be really sterile compared to the real thing. And you can't actually FEEL the EMOTION even though you can see it in facial expressions and hear it simulated in the voices.
I think depression is one of those things that you can observe, even in someone you love, and totally not understand unless you've actually been there yourself. It may be ugly to see, but it is even uglier to feel it yourself. You see the carnage and try to help someone step around the evidence, but it doesn't mean much more than a TV scenario does as far as knowing the REALITY of it goes.
I remember going to my pastor for counseling when I was very depressed as a teenager back in the 70's. He sat with a jaundiced eye and counseled me to simply tell my father that I loved him. If I did that, he said, I would start feeling better. Where did he get that from? Years later, I saw the same pastor go through a horrible depression and then I saw in his eyes that he really understood. He had actually taken part in this most human of crucifixions, the one where we blame ourselves and hate ourselves and find no hope and no reason to go on.
The same way with Mom. Back when I was suicidal, she didn't have a clue. She asked, "Just what do you expect ME to do about it?" I expected her to listen and offer help. Now that Daddy has died and Mother has experienced many such losses, now that she lives alone, I can hear the depression in her voice at times. Even over the phone. I recognize it because I have been there. But because I HAVE been there, I know how to help. I know how to listen. I know what kind of advice to give. I think. At least we can lie down in the bed together and I can hold her close while she sighs.
Donna -
You've nailed it there - and so beautifully. No one can really understand without having been through it - that's why it's so important to find support, in or out of a group, of just those people. It's so much easier to trust them. However, empathy and sympathy are about opening yourself to sense deep feelings in others and respond as helpfully as you can. That's important too, even though you can't know exactly what it's like without having suffered from depression yourself.
I've never had - and hope to God I never will - go through the suicide of a child, but I've offered help and support to those who have - and it's been important to them. I've never experienced the crippling pain of rheumatoid arthritis, but I've hugged and helped people in such pain. I think it's the expression of affection and love that we need as well as the ability to share the details of depression. We may get them from different people, but that's OK with me.
John
Yes...I tend to forget the people who did offer love, kindness and even understanding even though they had not "been there" themselves. There were also many who came out of the wordwork saying they, too, had suffered or were suffering from depression themselves. Many, many. I later learned that both of my sisters as well as my brother had taken antidepressants. They just didn't talk about it. For some reason, I guess more approval-seeking behavior, I had to try to make them understand something I couldn't even fully understand myself!
A friend approached me this week, asking me to pray for her because she just found out she has breast cancer. I have never had breast cancer or any type of cancer, thank God, but I was nevertheless filled with compassion. It may also be typical of depression that you tend to feel no one understands or wants to understand -- because that is more proof that life is lousy and unbearable.
There were times when my siblings, despite their own depression, did not want to hear what I had to say. Maybe nothing could explain my suicidal behavior to them -- or they assumed it was something so horrible they just didn't want to know and chose to get on with their own lives. And I certainly can't blame them for that. They probably gave as much compassion and sympathy as the situation allowed.
Dear John, excellant article. I've always felt worse about myself because if I wanted to talk about depression I've always had to pay a professional. My entire family was/is depressed but Nobody talks about it. Many of them just drink alcohol into oblivian. I've always had a hard time making close friends and it's my own fault because I tend to hold people at arms length. Thank you for the article John. Sioux
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Hi John
This was a really good article for our members to read. We are always telling them to seek support from friends and family...but what if their family and friends are not so empathic about depression? This is a very real problem for many people and unfortunately there are no easy solutions.
I think some of it depends too upon what type of situation it is...if the person is feeling suicidal...they need to get help right away. One never really knows how others may react but saying something in this case is better than not saying anything.
As for talking about depression with others...I imagine it is like maintaining a gate to your inner feelings. You don't let just anyone in. You do have to learn how to be discerning as to who gets allowed in...and who...you know will trample on your flower bed if you let them in the gate. I like your list of questions to help make this decision. It is a risk. Not everyone will understand and some people may make the situation worse. But sometimes people surprise you...you think they won't be cool about it and...they turn out to be very empathic.
I think too...it is helpful to let the other person know what you want. If you just want to vent and get things out...let them know. If you want advice or help with problem solving...that is an entirely different matter. Some people...upon hearing of your depression...will think they have to cure you or do something to fix your "problem." Others, as you have mentioned, may accuse you of just wanting sympathy or a pity party.
There was one response I got long time ago that my depression was "just an excuse to feel sorry for myself." Not the kind of thing which keeps the trust and conversation going.
I am eager to hear what others have to say. Thanks so much for talking about this.
Hi, MM -
Good points - thank you for adding them here. Often the response you get will depend on what you want to talk about and how you bring it up. Though it's hard to do it when depressed, you do have to think about the other person - or turn it around and ask yourself, would I want to listen to a monologue of desperation or be invited into a heartfelt exchange about difficult feelings?
The idea of taking a risk is a hard one too. Trust comes from long experience with someone, and if it's not already clear that you have a trusting relationship it's pretty hard to start one on these terms.
I think it's important, though, to try to do something rather than always assume that no one will listen. Doing anything - taking some action - is helpful in itself in breaking up the passivity of depression.
Whatever we try to say or do, though, it's just hard to come up against a closed and hostile mind.
John