Hello John
This is a very insightful and honest post. I think that this extends past therapy and into the whole medical realm. One of the challenges for any doctor whether they are our general practitioner or our therapist is...that it is sometimes more important what the patient does not say rather than what they do say. The omissions can be very vital information which gets missed in our treatment.
Sometimes it is not so much a matter of telling the truth...it is telling a certain perspective. I remember when I suffered a miscarriage. It was one of the most emotionally devastating events in my life. But I didn't know that it was normal to grieve. I downplayed how I felt because I felt I was not entitled to feel so bad. My therapist understood though...beyond what I did not say...and gave me permission to grieve. A good doctor is like a detective in a way. They figure out the puzzle based on clues.
Looking forward to hearing what our members say about this topic. I am glad you brought it up.
Hi, Merely Me -
It's a rare thing to have a therapist who is so in tune with you to be able to pick up on what you're not saying - or perhaps aren't even aware of. My wife and I once had a therapist who was that acute. His form of therapy was less about talking than enacting patterns of behavior so he always paid more attention to body language and uncomfortable silence than to the words we might use to over-analyze.
I was just reading about problems in diagnosing depression by GPs since people most often identify physical problems linked to depression rather than an emotional or cognitive dimension. That's takes a keen diagnostic sense, but most doctors I know take about 30 seconds before shutting their minds around a diagnosis.
Hope you're well -- John
I've had many therapists in my life. Two years ago a psychologist friend suggested I go see somebody she recommended for PTSD and trauma. So I did. And I admitted for the first time in my life - in my 40's now - that I had been molested by a teacher. I also had an abusive home life. My father kidnapped me when I was 4 1/2. I was ripped away from my mother... lots of trauma. Major trust and abandonment issues here. But I trusted this therapist, not completely, but I trusted her more than any other person in my life. Then after a couple bumps in the road in our relationship, mostly over scheduling, six weeks ago I recieved a cold type-written letter from her referring me on. It was sudden and shocking and after 10 days when she finally returned my calls and emails, I begged her not to terminate. But she said I was too extreme for her. She's supposed to specialize in PTSD and trauma and yet I'm too extreme. Two years. 18 thousand dollars. And all the trust I could muster. Gone.
I'm struggling so hard to power through this. But I can't stop thinking of killing myself. Originally, before all this, I had suicial ideation, but I would never leave my dogs. Now I fantasize about taking them with me because nobody would want them.
I feel so f'd because I will never walk into another therapist's office again. Friends are there, but they can't hold my hand every moment of every day. And my work is solitary.
So, yep, I told the truth in therapy.
Hold on in there....it's your therapist who has the issues...not you...they cannot deal with your issues and keep in a helping and supportive relationship with you which is helpful to you. Do not take this as an abandonment or rejection ...take it for what it is...they are saying they can not be most helpful to you at this time...they care about your ongoing health and therefore they are signposting you on for support from others.
Keep using this site for ongoing support at this time...until you find out whether you are now strong enough to manage your life yourself or need to seek support elsewhere.Try CBT it really does work!
Hypno
I agree with Hypno - perhaps the therapist doesn't have the skills necessary to help you and is referring you, but she should have SAID that, not made it sound like you were "too much" for her. I think, if you feel like you can, that it might help to write her a letter and tell her how this could have gone better. For one thing, she shouldn't have done this without having someone else in place for you so that you have no one in the meantime.
You might try to find someone who does EMDR, which is done for PTSD and has good results - I've done it myself. My own therapist, I think, sometimes felt like I was "too much" but she consulted with others and got trained in some things, like EMDR, so I've been able to continue working with her for many years.
I'm so sorry that you had to go through this - I know how I would have felt. But it's HER shortcoming, not yours. A therapist I had previously used to make me feel ashamed for feeling depressed, called me dependent, etc., and it wasn't until I met my current one for the purpose of doing some specialized work, that I realized I was getting more harm than help. It wasn't intentional, but it happened, nevertheless, and I was angry for a long time. It took me a long time to trust my current therapist. I think the best thing you could do right now is find someone else and try to work through this feeling of betrayal you have right away, but try to find someone who really IS trained in PTSD and trauma - ask how much experience they've had, if there's anything they'd consider "too much" to handle, etc. You now know what you don't want to have happen and doing some up-front work could save you some grief. Trust your gut. Don't give up, you don't deserve what happened and don't let it destroy you. There are good professionals out there. Ask around, if you can, and see if anyone has any good suggestions or referrals; that's usually the best way to find someone good. You might get lucky and stumble upon someone, but it might take more time.
Hang in there, keep writing here and we'll try to help as best we can. What happened was cruel, I think, but give someone else a chance - they aren't all bad and it doesn't say anything bad about you. You deserve to heal!
You're not the first one to tell me that my therapist has issues. When I told my therapist friend in detail what went down, she was appalled and said this woman should not be specializing in PTSD and trauma. There was nothing outrageous that happened, there was nothing "extreme" that happened in her office or in our phone conversations. Something was triggered in her. And if so, she shouldn't be handling the tougher cases.
The therapist I went to for trauma, caused me trauma.
She probably did get another paying client...however,she may have thought that she was not helping you to improve, only to stay at a certain phase and it would be in your best interest to see someone else...shame she couldn't explain it to you plainly and support you better through the transition to another therapist though!
Kindest Regards
Hypno
Hi Evan...
What makes you believe that therapists are any less likely to get things wrong, screw things up, have a bad year, feel inadequate, be put under pressure from a supervisor who should support and not hinder the therapist...and what has happened to other clients with whom they work that may have triggered them to become not fit for practice?
The trouble can sometimes be that one of their clients commits suicide, their supervisor is unable to support the therapist adequately and instead brings them to question their competance to practice in certain areas and immediately insists that they give up working with anyone who is at risk of suicide or else they will be reported and their licence to practice invoked.
Their insurers can do the same if they have had a claim brought against them or indeed their regulatory body can also insist for this following a complaint.
Some practitioners work alone and just can't work with clients who telephone at all hours of the day and night and present as being at high risk of suicide.
Some practiotioners will not work unless a "contract" is made and adhered to like stone.
Basically, all therapists have different ways they work and are human beings just like the rest of us. They are not perfect little souls wandering about the planet able to act with perfection in every circumstance.
I learned to recognise that I can perhaps at best work on certain areas with one therapist and then seek a different approach from another for continuance - each therapist being good at some things and less good in others. E.g. some specialise in CBT, others Hypnotherapy, Others NLP, others Psychodynamic therapy....and you can certainly expect to be challenged in the latter!
These days I'm not so judgemental. The therapist is as good as they are at that moment in time.
Hypno
Hi Hypno,
I do believe that "therapists are[n't] any less likely to get things wrong, screw things up, have a bad year, feel inadequate, be put under pressure from a supervisor who should support and not hinder the therapist..."
I don't think people should not blame themselves when their therapists screw up. I think anger is a good and helpful emotion. I think it is useful to take apart situations and restructure them, discarding some elements, keep others and rearranging them.
I think therapists can often be put in awful positions. I would prefer that this situation was changed radically.
My own belief is that it would be better for clients and therapists to meet as vulnerable human beings with their struggles, successes and failures. My own experience is that the people I have met who are clients of therapists have survived situations which I'm pretty certain I couldn't have survived as well as them. In this way I think they are likely healthier and saner than me (if I had come through what they have come through. I can't be certain but I'm pretty sure,).
Hi Evan,
Whilst when I was in recovery I could handle meeting people on equal terms, when I was ill I could not.
My therapist introduced herself with saying we were equal in standing _ no power differences between us. She was work in progress just as much as the next person....what was my reaction..."No. That's not true. I'm coming to you because I'm totally out of control. I need someone to hand over control to. I need someone to be there for guidance. I want to hand over control to you."...
Now it has to be said she never abused that position , and nor did she do exactly that..however...it illustrates one experience where I needed to psychologically lean on someone else for a while (hence I would say the difference between needing therapy and not needing therapy). However, as we all know habit becomes you so sometimes you need a push away in order to take restock of your own health...to become independent and trust yourself again.Not sure I'm really explaining this in the best possible way....anyway...when I was ill I needed a rock to lean on...someone perceived at that moment to be stronger than I...the knack is in knowing that this person is not perfect..the relationship is built on payment and mutual agreement to continue to meet...the therapist has one agenda to make decisions, that although may be experienced as a life's challenge on the part of the client, to judge when it is appropriate to make the severance and what preparation or otherwise may be appropriate...sure...we can all say wouldn't it be nice to have a therapist for ever...but that is not in the client's best interest to maintain dependency when it is no longer necessary. Nor is it the therapist's job to present a rosier image of the world suggesting that when close relationships come to an end that they always occur slowly over time with lots of notice. The rearrangement of appointment times rescheduling is a perfect testing ground. I remember that one...if I was happy to rearrange over longer periods of time it showed I was not as dependent on the relationship and at some stage the relationship must end. Issues of abandonment are commonplace and the therapist can work with these in different ways depending on their long term knowledge of the particular client.Presenting a separation in real terms rather than a cosier option is a good way of allowing the client to experience loss and dealing with it in a healthier way than they have done so before and allows the client to regain self esteem in the knowledge that they have dealt with the situation in a healthy manner.
Whilst I agree that repression of anger is a bad thing. I believe that anger is a self generated response to a situation which being an emotion is linked to other past events. I believe that by living in the moment and deconstructing on this basis is healthy...recognising what part of the emotional response relates to the past and which to the present and then realistically examining options that are available in the here and now and the relative health of taking actions on those options for the individual.
Whilst anger is normal in bereavement and loss. I believe it needs to be expressed in a healthy and non-destructive manner and not something to be held on to causing longerterm ill-health. I have never felt that apportionment of blame in a situation of loss has ever been helpful to me....Then in time I believe in all cases of loss the person needs to look to the future and examine the change in their life as a consequence of the loss and seek opportunities from this change to make healthier decisions and make positive steps for the future and move on.
These are only my thoughts on the matter...for you and others to comment on as you wish.
Kind Regards,
Hypno
Hi Hypno,
I believe that therapists and clients are equal in the sense of human rights or something similar. I think they have different tasks and abilities. If clients didn't need therapists they wouldn't go to them. When I ask a doctor or therapist for advice in their area of 'expertise' having them turn the decision back on me I think is a cop-out. They could at least provide stories about what has been best in their experience without telling me what to do.
I think what (good) therapists offer is understanding of the patterns of our thoughts and feelings and relationships (which all have to do with each other).
My partner battles PTSD and major depression. On occasion she has got so overwhelmed she has said that she doesn't know what to do; I have asked if she wants me to tell her; and she has said yes; so I have. She is very picky about boundaries, with others I think it is possible to be more free and easy.
Like you I'd like to hear from others about this issue. I think it is quite a big one about therapy.
This therapist did an unbelieveably horrible job in discontinuing your therapeutic relationship. She really needs a lot of help herself & better training. This is crucial if she thinks she can no longer offer you any help. I've had that happen w/a therapist who had been very helpful when I was 1st dxed w/bipolar 1 & I saw her for about 2 years. Then by mutual agreement we discontinued as I was doing so well & I started asking HER HOW HER WEEK WAS!
But after about 7 years of being a "poster child for bipolar" (though I was about 50-years-old!), I had a horrible relapse & attempted suicide (something I promised to myself I would not do once I had children as my mother committed suicide & I didn't want to do that to my children. So after 30+ years I had a horrible & sudden fall into a deep depression after a long period of hypo mania {5 months} that I didn't know was dangerous & felt so good so I didn't report it to my meds provider). I then went back to the former therapist (& had my meds adjusted many times), but the therapist was not helping me.
I was really stuck in a "mixed" episode & could not get over the fear of my doing that suicide attempt (felt so afraid about not being able to control my urge for suicide which I had been able to do for all those years; sometimes locking myself in a closet to keep myself from hurting myself--but I was able to keep that promise previously so I was shocked & scared).
So this therapist was not helpful to me when I was in such an extreme state of distress & confusion & feeling like a "failure." She agreed w/me when I told her that after about 8 sessions. I sought out many other therapists & even had one tell me after 5 sessions that she thought I shouldn't be on the meds I was on because they "blunt your emotions." Are you kidding me? I told her she did not want to see me "unblunted." I was suicidal still & eventually the meds combination at least made me able to learn & put into practice what I learned when I eventually DID find a helpful therapist who led a Dialectical Behavioral Therapy group (DBT).
So the therapist that didn't think I should take meds (my meds provider was appalled at this therapist expressing that to me--someone who has been dxed w/bipolar 1 & had her 1st suicide attempt when I was 15) was completely contrary to my "beliefs" about my treatment plan as medication had helped me in the past & had "worked" for the 7 years before the relapse.
I ended up writing that therapist a letter explaining that this was a major issue that we didn't agree upon & that I didn't think continuing therapy w/her would be beneficial to me.
Another couple therapists I tried & it didn't seem like a "good fit", I made appts. WITH THEM to tell them why I was discontuing therapy w/them (explaining it wasn't "personal" but that after a certain period of time--usually a couple months--I didn't think I was making progress w/them). Here I was paying them for the session to say I'm not coming back!! So I usually tried to do letters after that to save me time & MONEY & I wrote up a "phone interview" so I could call new therapists & ask them important questions after giving them a brief history BEFORE I WENT IN FOR THE 1ST APPT. I didn't have any therapist refuse to do the phone interview (which would have disqualified them right off the bat).
Another therapist I "interviwed" on the phone & my meds provider had recommended her told me on the phone that she wasn't sure she could give me the kind "of support I needed." I think she thought I was too complicated a case (husband prefers to call it "interesting") & she didn't have enough time to devote to me. I think she was afraid I would be calling her during her off hours (which I assured her I wasn't that kind!), but she did agree to meet w/me. I liked her a lot, but she did call me a few days later & did say she didn't think she could "meet my needs." I think I have to give the therapists (& doctors, too) the right to turn me away if they are not feeling comfortable w/me as a patient. But it should be done in a respectful way--not one of blame.
Your therapist (I believe you had been seeing her for 2 years & felt that you trusted her) did a terrible & damaging disserve to "terminate" you in the way she did. The DBT therapist that was so helpful to me & I saw for 2 years before she retired told me 6 months before that she was retiring & helped me get used to the idea & "prepared" me. She had several recommendations for me to see after she retired & w/my permission spoke to them about "my case." I also had the additional of dx of PTSD & she did "use" EMDR on me several times which helped a lot w/my chronic insomnia (amazingly well, actually unbelieveable) & wanted me to go to a specialist who had EMDR training.
But the retiring therapist also didn't charge me for my last session (& actually several others that were more "transition" sessions). I also wrote her a long letter that I read to her at the last session telling her how much I appreciated all the insight & help she had given me.
I would highly recommend a DBT-trained therapist (ck. their credentials; if you like I can post some places to do that) as they are trained to have extra compassion & sensitivity. I also found EMDR helpful.
It is NOT YOU! That therapist has ISSUES!! Please don't give up. But do "beware" & get to know therapist & build up trust.
Take good care of yourself, please. Also, write down the suicide prevention phone #. I called them several times during my 2 years of hell...
Hmmmm...brings back a lot of old memories I would just as soon forget. But I might as well talk about it (lol). I always idolized my therapists, for the most part, especially all the women. They always seemed to have their act together totally, and here I was a certified screw-up. So although I was in therapy for years, I "stayed my distance" from the subjects I really needed to discuss. I was afraid to reveal that I was even more of a screw-up than they thought...or than I thought. Funny that I could sit and write for hours about all the bad stuff I needed to talk about. I would even memorize exactly what I wanted to say to the therapist. But when I got there, I just clammed up and wished I had a cigarette to jam between my lips so they would have something to do (my lips, that is.)
I think part of my fear of disclosure was because two different psychiatrists had referred me on to someone else because I was too big of a headache. I was determined that this wouldn't happen again. I would try to be nice and cooperative, not talk about feeling suicidal, not talk about sexual abuse and PTSD symptoms, and, as you said, be the model patient. I wanted more than anything to be loved and accepted by someone, and there were only an extremely limited number of people in my life. Like my mother and my therapist and one long-distance friend. The friend was the only one I could really talk to, and perhaps that's because it wasn't face-to-face, and I could write out what I wanted to say to him in an email.
But then I went to a few CBT sessions with a new therapist. This one was no winner outwardly (the others had been snappy dressers and had user-friendly offices -- this one was totally no-nonsense but in a grandmotherly type of way.) But her true worth shone in her assessment of what my problems were and how to address them. When will I learn not to judge people by their outward appearance alone? Anyway, in just about 3 sessions, I was saying things I had never admitted to any other therapist, and in 6 sessions I had done more "work" than in 5 years with my long-term therapist. And 6 sessions was all it took to get me off my rear-end and headed in the right direction. It didn't take sarcasm (in which one of my therapists majored), it didn't take judgment (in which I was repeatedly told I didn't think about things in the right way -- duh!), and it didn't take basking in the deadly light of blame assignation. All it took was seeing what I wanted and how to get it. Not easy, mind you, but very helpful.
Sometimes I think about going back to therapy just to have someone to talk to about the bad days, i.e., when I am depressed and falling apart. But that is probably no more likely to happen now than it was back then when I actually had a therapist to talk to. Go figure.
I think that all therapists should have to disclose all their baggage and then say, "And this is how I got on the other side of it." Or say, "My baggage is gone and let me tell you how I did it."
It's a cliche that therapists become therapist because they have a ton of crap themselves. The trick to finding a good therapist is finding one that has healed. But, of course, we're not allowed to know how stable they are before we spend time and a ton of money on them.
Now I am convinced therapy is B.S.
Try CBT instead...you've done the identification of historical events that have traumatised you and are hard wired into the amygdala and triggered under stress...now start changing your learned responses, patterns of behaviour and thought...it is so suprising and refreshing after the years of analytical and psychodynamic therapy to look at life through a new pair of glasses, from a new, more objective perspective....without the previously present performing seal of the emotional responses from the amygdala!
Turn now your attention to your freedom from the shackles of the past. No more need to recount past events ...only to recognise how your reaction to those events has programmed your responses to situations when similar emotions are triggered today...then set about reprogrammimg your brain to make more healthy responses to situations.
I realised that talking to a therapist had in itself become a bad habit as it kept me absorbed in the past and in my trauma rather than helping me to change the way I deal with situations in my present so that I can lead a more balanced and healthy lifestyle.
In effect my relationship with my therapist was just another means by which I strived attention which was ultimately unhealthy attention in the long term...soI was glad to be rid of them and move my concentration to living my life instead rather than living in the past.
Try and view this recent event as a positive opportunity to react differently to how you would usually react...try something new.
Let us know how you get on.
Take Care
Hypno
I know what you mean about therapy keeping you stuck. I definitely walked out of sessions more than once feeling worse than when I walked in. I describe it as being a glass of water with sediment at the bottom and therapy shakes it all up and the water is muddy and murky. After a while, it all settles again. Then there's something else to cloud the clear.
But this therapist also was helping me. We had a solid year where we were on the same page. Where she was helping me with daily conflicts that would arise. She let me bring one of my dogs. So this abrupt f-you to me has been one of the biggest mind-f's of my life. In fact, with all that's happened to me over the years, this might be the worst because I went to her for help. Because I paid a lot of money from my depleting savings as an investment in shoring up my ability to trust. As an investment in losing my fear of abandonment. And I got mentally raped by this "caregiver." That's exactly how it feels.
I did have a CBT guy a few years back. But I hadn't completely uncovered all of my trauma at the time. I felt he was treating what seemed to be superficial scrapes when there were actually festering abscesses below the surface.
Thank you for your time. I'm going to try to have a better day today than yesterday. Every day is so different. The beginning of the week I wasn't as down. Think I was numbing out. I do think that the meditation book has helped me some. It helps detach from the anguishing thoughts. Going to try and dig into that today.
At the end of the day, I think all we have is ourselves to rely on. We come into the world alone. We go out of the world alone. Ultimately, I now believe that peace can only come from within.
Whilst I agree happiness is brought forth from ourselves in terms of finding what we really want to do in life and bringing those goals into fruition for ourselves...I went through a stage of inward focus meditaion etc to the complete exclusion of external focus...with a therapist!!!!...who then also recognised that they needed to force closure as I was repeating a behavioural pattern with them that was no longer moving me forward (I too spent a fortune that I could ill afford on therapy...however they "saved " my life and supported me through three terrible years for which I am eternally grateful despite the shock abandonment)....now I have found the happy balance...which is a healthier way of living whereby I can attend to both external and internal drivers and each day is an opportunity to learn and adjust my behaviours, thoughts and emotional responses to maintain healthier responses for me and others.
All the Best.
Hypno
I understand what you're saying. But I do think what happened with me has more to do with colossal incompetence vs. coming from a caring place.
And I will consider all your suggestions further. I do appreciate your point of view.
The-rapist - never heard of that before. How could I not have figured that out myself? Ha.
Thank you!
I really do understand what you are saying...uncaring way the transition was managed which leaves you plummeting with issues of abandonment, loss of trust, etc etc
There is however an very neat consequence to all of this....
WHAT IF?....
What if your therapist offered you the opportunity to explore your worst nightmares of abandonment, loss of trust, etc knowing you will cope with these feelings now in a different and more productive way...that you are in fact strong enough now to weather the storm without them, well enough now to use a variety of supporting networks rather than rely on just one (the-rapist)...
What if they realised you were ready to re-experience unexpected loss and this time deal with it in a healthy manner...to grieve the loss for what it is rather than an idealised long-term supporting relationship, to rediscover the variety of supportive relationships you have and recognise your own internal strength and creativity to problem solve is returning now... to experience this abandonment as an opportunity as representing a time of change, a chance to move forward positively with your life putting behind you the past crap that has kept you imprisoned within yourself for so long now, a chance to change your life situation for the better...to concentrate your attention now on the positive things you want from your life and gather your resources, skills,knowledge and support to take steps day by day, week by week to ensure you improve the quality and creativity within your life...nothing is static...change brings the opportunity for renewal and refreshment...
Get the message...now is an opportunity to change the way you view and deal life challenges that in the past you have found difficult... change your emotional and behavioural responses...take blame out of the equation...deal with the situation in the here and now as different from all other situations you have encountered as you are now stronger and more knowledgeable about yourself, your skills and abilities as well as your weaknesses and how you can gather support from others in the whole of your network and meet new people to bring new ideas and perspectives into your life for the better ...
You can fill in the rest...
Kindest Regards
Hypno
"What if they realised you were ready to re-experience unexpected loss and this time deal with it in a healthy manner..."
Kind of funny that you went there because part of me, the part that's still trying to makes sense of it all, has thought, "What if this therapist isn't incompetent at all, what if she's some sort of mad genius who threw me into the pit of snakes that I am so terrified of?" But, of course, I know that isn't true. After honestly divulging the details, my friend who's a very well educated, experienced therapist with a Phd., looked me in the eye and said the following to me, "You got *ucked over." She actually said it twice. And she was livid at how I was treated by this "specialist."
But, Hypno, I am indeed forced to somehow negotiate my way through the very thing that terrifies me the most, which is abandonment. And your post is a very positive way to look at it. I am going to print out your words and reread it over and over. Perhaps I should send you the $200 bucks? Please tell your therapist that I think they're doing good work. ;-)
And I will try to utilize your trick in replaying the traumatic memories over in my head.
Thank you, H
Hi, Donna -
I always thought therapists spent a lot of time under supervision going into all their hangups and triggers touched by their clients. The old Freudian school required psychoanalysis, as I recall - which would surely screw up the most sensitive psychiatrist. But your stories and about a dozen others I've heard about therapists wrapped up in their own problems make it clear something is seriously wrong. One good therapist out of three is like the roulette game of picking medications, but you can't change them so easily. It's wonderful you found a great one and could make progress at last. How much time have we all wasted, and been harmed by, bad therapy and useless medications??
Your post gives me a lot to think about, as usual.
John
I am truly trying to overcome the obstacle of being afraid of disappointing my new psychiatrist. It was so good to read your post and find I am not alone in this problem. Everything about therapy with my new doc is different from the fact that he doesn't write notes the whole session, and instead makes eye contact (a little harder to get used to when talking about tough stuff).I find it harder to control my tears, the pain that comes up, ect.
I have told him I have this tendency to be a people pleaser, need to have people think I am doing well and so on because I don't want to get trapped into doing it again, but I am sure I will. That;s why I told him. It wasn't easy because as you say, I want to be the good patient.
With my past therapist I used to feel terrible when he would fall asleep because i wanted to just sneak out of the office without waking him up because he was tired of dealing with me I guess or my stuff was just the same oid same old stuff.I don;t want that to happen again. It felt terrible like why go back? Even when I try to be good I wasn't good enough to talk to.
I am trying to break a life long pattern though in every aspect of my life. I don;t know if I can overcome it but by telling him I thought it would be a start.
I know this is kind of disjointed writing but therapy was really hard today and I feel like I am in little pieces trying to stay stuck together. Sorry.
Okay, you might not want to take advice from me as I've lost faith in all therapy, but I will say if there's any hope of being helped, you have to be a thousand percent honest. It's SUPPOSED to be a safe place - the therapist's office. And if you are getting a bad feeling about the person YOU ARE PAYING for help, then don't go back. Find another one before you get so deep into your relationship like I did with mine that they eventually make your life a lot messier.
Take your above writing to your current psychiatrist and let him read what you wrote. If you're not comfortable with his response - NEXT! Find another one. We should not be intimidated by people we are going to for help. The therapist that dumped me waved a few red flags throughout the two years - she would shame me and guilt me and make me feel small. And she's succeeded in making me believe all these things so she doesn't have to feel guilt about unethically terminating me. People we are going to for emotional support should be helpful and not hurtful.
And I find it appalling that your psychiatrist before fell asleep on you. No wonder you're having anxiety about this one. It's completely understandable. There's nothing wrong with how you're feeling. Talk to the new guy about it. Again, take your post with you and show it to him.
I wrote about the meditation book Real Happiness a few days ago. I suggest you read it. It has helped me to separate from my anxious thoughts. I'm still a wreck, but this book has given me pockets of clarity throughout my day.
I just came back in from walking my dog. I took my ipod and walked while listening to the "emotional meditation" from the cd that comes with the book. This one in particular has helped me detached and be a consciousness that sort of hovers over my thoughts, not judging them and not being a part of them. It has helped me get into these calm pockets where I feel okay. I do quickly come back around to feeling a big ball of tangled sadness and despair, but maybe in time I can get these pockets to extend longer.
Sharon Salzberg is the author. I hope it helps you, too.
Sometimes even just a short break from what goes on in my head, especially after having talked about tough stuff, would be a welcomed relief. Sometimes trying to put myself back together before my hour + drive home is difficult and at times dangerous. I am definately going to look for that tomorrow. I can find somewhere to park for a little while if it will help. At this point there is no point because I am not going to feel any better if i drive right away or an hour after. Thanks pat
Here's a tip....when you are recounting incidents/events that cause you to respond in an unhelpful emotional state...fear/anxiety/phobia/intense anger/sadness etc...try to be an onlooker to the incident and view the incident in your mind's eye from ABOVE the incident and BEHIND the you within the incident. Start recounting from well before the uncomfortable moments of the incident and keep describing events until you felt calm again after the incident. Play the scene backwards and forwards several times in your mind's eye (fast forward it and rewind it several times - always going between times when you felt ok on either side of the incident) ...This will dis-associate you from the full feelings of the emotional reaction and allow you to consider the learning points from the incident.In your imagination explore ...What could you or others have done differently in that situation, what could have been said or not said, at what point could you or others have taken a different course of action so that the incident would have been very different or not happened at all.
Let us know how you get on with the technique.
Hypno
Hi there...
Thought I would add another trick to the pile...
Emotions when triggered are supposed to alert you, or draw your attention to something that needs fixing or resolving...if you ignore them or try to block them there is a tendency for them to increase in severity...so you need to pay attention to them...however you don't need to feel them only to acknowledge them and accept yourself with that feeling at this time and thank the feeling for bringing your attention to something that needs resolving...ask what has caused you to feel that way...when was the first time you felt that emotion...what do you need to learn from that experience. In remembering that experience try to play the scene through from a time you felt good before the experience right through to a time you felt good after the experience...use your hover techinique as this dis-associates you from the emotion but still allowing you to be in touch with the memory of the incident to which the emotion is linked...do it several times and ask what would have made the situation better or changed the incident into a positive one...that is a point of learning. Think about the most recent experience again- has the emotional response become less intense and again ask what you need to do differently in the future or what would resolve the issue? If the emotional response has not subsided then you need to re-reflect on the first time you experienced the emotion or another occaision when you felt the emotion and try to find your point of learning (or way to resolve the memory).
By the way ... resolutions do not always have to be real ones...they can be comic...they can be fictional....all you really need to do is to resolve the memory so that the emotional response becomes unlinked to the event.
Hypno
What am I doing on this site? you ask?...because the community on this site assisted me when I was at some of my lowest ebbs...and when I was trying to figure out how to drag myself kicking and screaming out from my deep depression into the light of day again.
During my journey of recovery I realised that I always kept Hope, but there was something missing..I kept saying I don't see the way out of this awful repeating situation I keep getting into...I then realised that the reason I couldn't see the way out was because I was repeating the same old behaviours, the same old thoughts, holding on to beliefs and values in a way that hindered rather than helped my recovery...I realised that hope can sometimes be used to abdicate my own responsibility to start doing something different in order to improve my situation...I was waiting for someone else to affect my situation to make things better for me...I realised that hope should be used to look at new ways of behaving and thinking and experiencing life. I decided...yes...I chose to decide that from now on I would look at life with a certain level of optimism ... that there were opportunities in every life challenge...opportunities for me to take control of my own circumstance...think...Glass half full rather than glass half empty ...now look to buy a cow to get the rest of the glass full of milk...you get it I'm sure.
All the best.
Hypno
As usual, Hypno, I am wowed by your reply.
I have absolutely been doing the insane thing of doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. And I am inspired to try different approaches to life's challenges.
So how long did it take you to dig out of the dark well you fell in? And was it mainly CBT that you did? And how long ago did you start? How long have you been posting here?
I happened upon this site accidentally when I was looking for information about sam-e. Do you know anything about who owns/runs this site? And I saw from an earlier post that you're in Australia? Is that correct? How did you find this site?
Thank you again for all of your very valuable, thought provoking insight.
"I am inspired to try different approaches to life's challenges."
Someone (I can't remember who it was at the moment) once said words to the effect of... It's not what life throws at you in the way of challenges , it is how you deal with them.
Someone else said...If a belief or value is not helping you, then change it! I would add to this ...or at least change how you use it.
I'm rather excited to hear of the changes you are now going to make. Good Luck! Oh and don't get disappointed if your first attempts don't work out fully.Just decide on your next step are you going to try the same approach but again not worry if things don't work out ...or are you going to adjust what you do again...basically...begin to practice problem-solving and also begin rebuilding your ability to face adversity straight-on and revive your creativity in moving forward.
"So how long did it take you to dig out of the dark well you fell in? And was it mainly CBT that you did? And how long ago did you start? How long have you been posting here?"
I suppose my "bottom of the pit" moments started in 2007 (I'm not counting any depression I had prior to this as despite the fact that I wasn't functioning well,I was not yet at the bottom of the pit.) I started therapy in 2008. I tried Rogerian...it was too slow...not challenging enough. I went to a hypnotherapist for a couple of years who used a mixture of techniques, styles and interventions including hypnotherapy, counselling,coaching, emergency interventions to keep me safe and at times mainly psychodynamic work as this was the only way I could communicate or interact around my psychological defences that were working on overtime (I had high anxiety, PTSD and deep depression....to really use hypnotherapy well the subject needs to be relaxed when the hypnotherapist does their work...something I had not been for a very long time)...They tried CBT at first but I couldn't engage with it...it was as though I did not understand what I was being asked to do...my brain was not working as well as it should...so they taught me mediative skills and a variety of techniques that I have mentioned but I just couldn't make the breakthrough until finally after exploring all my traumatic history I had enough logical capacity to think again. My therapist kicked me off their list...I was too extreme..they didn't have the necessary skills to help me... they said they appreciated the work I'd done with them but I was repeating an unhelpful pattern of behaviour with them...stuck in my trauma...they couldn't help me any more...they advised me to go to my gp. At the time I thought this was cruel...I now realise it was a necessary step. I went to my gp and got a small dose of tranquillizers (not enough to kill myself) to use infrequently at night to take the edge off my anxiety,stop the rumination and allow me to sleep. I took a total of 20 tablets over a period of 8months (not one every day for sure) I asked them for a referral for supported self-help CBT and they booked me a fortnightly appointment with them to monitor my situation until I felt strong enough to not need it. Twelve sessions later (a mixture of face to face, and telephone sessions weekly at first and then fortnightly and then monthly)I was well on the road to recovery. The CBT focused on my future rather than my past...it focussed on planned future goals and ambitions.What I wanted toachieve now and in the future.Short term and longer term goals...it did not ignore my past but pushed me to acknowledge it and how it was affecting my current behaviours rather than dwell on(in) them or relive them.
Research in the US and Wales and England has found a 37% less chance of depressive relapse by using CBT plus Mindfulness (western mediatation techniques). It has been known for some time that the CBT approach is very effective against depression as depressive states tend to bring your focus and attention internally sometimes to the exclusion of external focus...whereas CBT encourages external focus to be increased...this means that combined with mindfulness a more healthy balance can be maintained.
"I happened upon this site accidentally when I was looking for information about sam-e. Do you know anything about who owns/runs this site? And I saw from an earlier post that you're in Australia? Is that correct? How did you find this site?"
I'm not in Australia...I'm in the UK. The site appears to be run from the US. I don't know who runs the site other than their acknowledgements on their emial notifications...The HealthCentral Network,Inc.
I happened on the site when I was looking up help and information for depression and online self-help. When I read some of the postings I realised that I had very similar (I won't say exactly the same because that leads people to say things like ...my pain is greater than your pain etc. and it becomes a my traumas were worse than your traumas dialogue which really is not helpful in recovery.)experiences, thoughts, feelings, desperation etc. I realised I was not alone. I also realised that I had worked my way through an awful lot already but had not realised that I had done so as I was still stuck in the past. Then by sharing some of the techniques I used and giving some insight into how some of the techniques can be used I thought it might give others some means of overcoming their "stuckness" in a very practical way. Giving some insight into the process of recovery rather than sticking with the content of people's recounted stories...if this makes sense to you.
With each insight I gave I realised how much work I had already undertaken with my therapists and also alone between sessions - which probably was a hell of a lot more than in the sessions themselves as my defences were high. However, the reviewing of progress with another I found to be important as they could put me back on track - so the supported CBT for the 12months (not the usual 6 normally given) was important to me. During this time I started to shift focus from others helping me through things to me helping myself and beginning to share things with my friends...I actually admitted to all my friends the reason why they hadn't heard from me for so long..I had had a breakdown and had been severely depressed but was now in recovery. I was relieved.I could be myself.When a dear friend died suddenly, I rang who....not a therapist,not a doctor...I rang a friend who I hadn't spoken to for nearly a year apologized for not calling sooner said I needed to just tell her what had happened. I told her I didn't need her to say anything or offer any other support than to listen while I recounted to her why the sudden death had been such a shock to me...and you know what...that conversation was the normalist of conversations I have had in many a year...and it only lasted 15mins, of which perhaps I only took up 7mins with my issue...a couple of days later my friend rang me back and said "I just wanted to check that you were ok"...I said "Yes thanks. I just needed someone at the time to talk with...let's catch up and go out for lunch and take in a film or something." It was then that I knew just how much better I now was.
So a couple of years of therapy plus now 6 months CBT, and 6 months only me...I consider that I'm a lot better, now. My friends have had to make adjustments to the new me which all took its toll on me during this time.However, I stuck to my goals and my friends have all returned although on different terms...even my family relationships are a lot better. I must say that I cut out a few people from my life as they were toxic for me and I do not miss them at all.They just serve as a reminder to me how not to behave and how not to accept any crap from others.ALso a reminder that I need to live my own life and not be merely a part of the lives of others.
I share my insights because I thought to myself...if only I had realised what the therapist was actually asking me to do when I was in their session...if only I had been given an example of how it could be practiced, where my focus was not helpful to me and where it might be more helpfully put to use.
Others can take from my postings what they wish. If they disagree with them..they can...if they find them difficult...I'll share other tips to try to assist. I've used just about every technique out there to get through various stages in my recovery so I don't know whether one technique is preferable over another...I just say... do what works for you at whatever point you want to use it...and if it doesn't work...adjust the technique or do something else but remember you can always use the technique at a different time in the future.
All the Best. Keep me posted if you would like to do so.
Hypno
Taking a sidewise slant on this. From the comments it sounds like there should be some way of clients knowing that therapists aren't good at things and don't necessarily manage their lives terribly well either. I suspect this suggestion would lead to much 'resistance' from therapists.
Hi, Evan -
I don't know if you can see the program in Australia, but there is an HBO series called In Treatment. Each season follows the sessions of four characters and a fifth who is the old friend/mentor trying to be the therapist's therapist. Each script is incredibly good, and it's hard to imagine a psychologist who is so committed to his clients while being so stupid about perceiving his own problems. There's no connection at all between his skills and approach to clients and his ability to look at his own emotional traps.
There must be a lot of therapists who are that blind about their own issues and who impose them on the people they treat - though "our hero" of In Treatment is pretty good about sparing his clients from his own agony. Of course, that's fiction!
John
John -
I watched every episode of that show. And you and I have completely different views of the Gabriele Byrne character. I do not believe he was a good therapist. I think he brought his messed up life and dark energy into those therapy sessions. In the very first season, might have been the first episode, there was a patient who said to him, "I know when somebody's vibing me." And we find out later he was indeed sexually attracted to her. It was subtle his "vibing" her, but it was one of the creepiest moments I've seen on television. Done really well.
And then in this past season there was the Amy Ryan character who Paul goes to for medication. He becomes erotically fixated on her and she encourages it. They set her up as being pregnant, and lonely soone to be a single mother. She absolutely messes with his head and he calls her on it, and then breaks off therapy with her.
I have had 7 therapists on my life. I would say one was really great. He lives in another state. The last two I had, definitely had messy lives which they brought in the room. The therapist I had before this last one full on came on to me. It was so jarring that I went back to them a year and a half later to confront them. They tried to talk me into returning and said, "I'm a much better therapist now than I was back then."
I had a therapist before that one I had been seeing for a while. I liked her so much that I recommended my boss who was having marital issues go see her. Our issues weren't overlapping so seemed to be safe. Then one day I go to this therapist and she leans forward and says, "I can't believe how much money Mary makes." Mary is a fake name I've given to my old boss. I was stunned that she would tell me what they talked about. If she told me that about Mary, what was she saying to Mary about me? I could not go back to that therapist.
I have not had good luck with therapists. The CBT guy I went to came across as somebody who really had their life together. He was very well educated and well-seasoned, but, in his defense, I wasn't digging in deep on my end. So maybe he's a great therapist. I just felt I had done what I could at that time with him so I stopped going. That was not his fault.
There is a great book my therapist friend lent me. And by the way, I know what her problems are, I know she's worked through them, and I know that her life is together - I bet she's a great therapist. But I can't see her because she's a friend. Anyway, after my last therapist unloaded a cargo ship of trauma on me, my friend lent me a book called, "The Therapist's Emotional Survival." It's about how therapists deal with their own "crap" that comes up while trying to council their patients. The man who wrote it is extremely honest about his own trauma growing up, and how he works to not let it trigger him in sessions. He discusses his being sexually attracted to patients and his throught process. It's a fascinating read and I think anybody who's in therapy, or thinking about therapy should read it. He also discusses what he's gone through as a patient himself. I'm guessing this guy is a great therapist because he's come out the other side of his stuff. He knows what it is. And, a guess, he discusses his family and I bet this guy's life is in order, which he carries into the room with him whether he talks about it or not. Unlike the character in "In Treatment," who carries his crap into the room. Remember it's not always about what is said. We all have energy we carry with us.
Everybody who's fearful of being honest in therapy, this book addresses a lot of what's been brought up and questioned on this blog and on your website, John. For example, one of the chapters in the book is titled "Will You Hurt, Ignore, or Help Me? Fear and Self-Protection." It addresses all of our fears as patients and the fears of therapists.
My friend gave me this book to help me realize that the therapist who suddenly terminated me has a problem managing her own inner demons. And that she should not be treating people with PTSD and trauma. It has helped me see that, but it has not helped me get over the devastating trauma that this woman's lack of managing her own demons have caused me.
I know I'm rambling here. Obviously this topic has opened up a can of worms for me. My long-winded point is - I think every therapist should have to disclose their own issues and how they've overcome them in order to help us. Paul Weston, not a good therapist.
Hi, Real Happiness -
You're right about In Treatment regarding Paul's involvement with those two clients you mentioned, in particular. It's the total blindness he shows about his own behavior that I was mostly thinking of. Yeah, I went too far in saying he doesn't bring his crap into the room - after all, the stories wouldn't have their dramatic depth without his boundary-crossing. On the other hand, some of his going too far shows a level of emotional commitment that I admire, even if many therapists would see it as bad practice and even when I'm thinking "Oh, you shouldn't do that, Paul."
I was a mediator for many years, and the role resembles that of a counselor or even a therapist in some ways - especially in personal mediation like divorce or any family issue. There is a standard of conduct that requires full disclosure of past involvement with any of the participants. You're also required to withdraw if you feel that you can't be objective and help all the parties get the solution that's best for each of them. That's part of building trust.
For therapists, getting a complete understanding of their emotional vulnerabilities and keeping them out of the room ought to be looked at as part of basic professional competence. Disclosing the issues up front to a client? I think the bad therapists want to cling to an authority role and use that to control the relationship. They wouldn't dream of revealing what's going on inside them - and they're probably not even aware of it.
I can hardly believe the horrible experiences you've had in therapy, and my heart goes out to you. I've heard so many stories like yours over the last few years through blogging that I have to think therapy is becoming a gamble. Will it be destructive, of little use, or great?
And hey - your rambling is great! I've rarely seen such a good dialogue online.
John
Hi, John -
I definitely see what you're saying about the Paul character in In Treatment. And, yes, definitely written to blur the lines of boundaries for good entertainment. I, too, do admire his going out on a ledge for his patients. But I also thought the whole time I was watching it, "Glad he's not my therapist." But now what I'd give for that kind of determined therapist!
Interesting profession being a mediator. I assume, like therapists, you too could get triggered by personalities or situations that would make your work no longer objective. Your candor on your site - I checked out some of your past writings - I'm sure makes you good at your job. Honesty. How many of the world's problems could be avoided if there were more candor on the planet?
You wrote, "I think the bad therapists want to cling to an authority role and use that to control the relationship. They wouldn't dream of revealing what's going on inside them - and they're probably not even aware of it."
I think you're absolutely right. And the therapist that has cause me such grief I believe did so because she can't be a real live human being and admit her mistakes. In order for our relationship to be fixed, she'd have to break her rigid frame. She messed up and she's not willing to admit it. So instead of being another living, breathing, flawed entity in the room, it was easier for her to cut me out of her practice. In her mind, she would lose too much power and authority to fix our rupture. I even suggested having a third party come in and help us over what I think was a minor bump in the road - she refused. There really wasn't anything "extreme" that happened. I've spent the last six weeks trying to figure out why she would choose to cause me such painful, anihilating trauma vs. working to fix things. And I think it's what you said, "...Bad therapists want to cling to an authority role and use that to control the relationship." She lost control with me and she lost authority and she was to uncomfortable being real.
Knowing others have struggled with therapists in the past and currently has given me some sense of relief. It's been a humiliating, demoralizing, devasting nightmare I've been trudging through. Quite simply, I feel like a loser. I must be the worst person to have been dumped by my therapist. And you know the worst part, when I started I said she would be my last therapist. That I had to make it work. That I couldn't allow myself to quit. And here I am, she quit me.
I wish I could stop it all from going round and round and round my head. Although, I think of it a hundred times a day, I don't believe I'll ever have the courage to kill myself, but I certainly can't wait for this life to be over, either.
Thanks again for exposing your own inner turmoil. It really is helpful.
The issue will go around and around in your head until you have made peace with yourself over the matter.
To resolve issues I've found I can take several positions or perspectives...
1) Be objective and with acceptance - Accept situations or people for what they are....don't look back and wish things could have turned out differently...because they didn't.Don't act in denial wishing the outcome can be changed in retrospect.
This one works for me because I'm only disappointed when something unexpected happens...and by that I mean something happens that is at odds with how I had thought or expected (or planned(!))it would. This also links to some misplaced issues of control and feeling in control of life which I had for some time.
2) Be non-judgemental - Learn something about myself from what has happened. Not looking to apportion blame or shame. Not to second guess why a person has done something to me, but instead ask How did I get to respond in this way to this person or event...and how could I react differently now which would be helpful to me and move me on whilst accepting that the change has occurred.
3)Be non-attached to the outcome - Take a step back and view the situation as an observer who has no benefit or loss from the situation...have no emotional investments to the situation...just acceptance of the here and now...e.g.now I do not have a therapist what choices are available to me...find a new one/try to do some self-help CBT, try supported CBT, meditate every day for 20mins, have a holiday with all the money I'll save from therapy, use what was therapy time to do something new to me instead, go out and meet new people, take up a new hobby, etc.
Oh and internal rumination is because matters have not yet internally been resolved ...they will...with time and CREATIVE PROBLEM SOLVING that moves you forward in a positive way.
Kind Regards
Hypno
"The issue will go around and around in your head until you have made peace with yourself over the matter."
You are absolutely right. And a huge part that scares me is that I'm not sure I will ever find peace with this. This is just another messy loose end that I'll have to carry with me for the rest of my life.
On being objective that is where the meditaiton helps some. But those moments of I'm on the outside looking in are so fleeting.
And you hit another good point of being disappointed when life doesn't work out the way you think it will. I had some big goals for myself at the beginning of this year and they have been completely thrown off track. My career is solitary and creative - I don't have much to distract me from my never ending thought loops. I'm alone with myself all the time.
On the being non-judgemental I think a huge problem in my life is that I don't hold people responsible for their bad behavior. Because I have such low self-esteem I always blame myself. And I'm doing it now. But when I really look at the facts of what went down - I did not deserve this. I know I didn't. So then my blame turns to the therapist. I can't really let her off the hook. I feel like this time... this time... I cannot let this person off the hook. My friend said that is actually growth for me because I always let people treat me poorly and I take it. So I have to figure out how to accept this, but be proactive about steps to resolve this mess.
And I will have to accept whatever the outcome - be non-attached to that part of it.
Your advice on finding something else to do with my therapy time and money is great. The taking a holiday suggestion made me laugh. A great idea. And truly not something I do often enough. Actually, rarely.
You and Donna1 inspired me to dig out my CBT book. Read a bit of it today. It's hard to believe - although I know it works for a lot of people - but it's hard to believe that it can help. This kind of trauma and depression for me feels like every cell of my body has been beaten with a tiny baseball bat. I just ache all over. But I will do my best to write out the chart and how I'm feeling.
"Oh and internal rumination is because matters have not yet internally been resolved ...they will...with time and CREATIVE PROBLEM SOLVING that moves you forward in a positive way."
You are correct. Thank you!!
Taking a holiday and taking care of yourself are two vital ingredients to peaceful living. If you don't take care of yourself how can you expect others to take care of you?
Treat yourself to something relaxing - a massage perhaps in a health club or beauty salon or an aromatherapist - or whatever suitable venue in your area...basically give yourself some pampering instead of beating yourself up with or without the assistance of others.
As for a holiday...a change of scenery, people, places, activities is so refreshing especially if it's a new place - as there is no history to the location, the people etc. You can be in the moment and can focus your attention on what you are doing in that moment.
Oh and don't forget to breathe in refreshing new air to give you calmness and balance and breathe out all your tension.
Practice relaxation for at least 20 mins in the morning and evening and empty your mind of everything...if you have problems doing this due to continued ruminations...all you have to do is think to yourself..."stop thinking of what you are thinking now and think of something else instead" repeat that a few times and ...well your mind is blank...and you can relax more deeply.
Rather than blame and shame...try acceptance and regret...then move forward into your brighter future by starting to do the things that will bring you closer to your goals. Plan to make one small step per day (or per week if per day seems too much to handle right now) that will help you to eventually achieve your goal. Don't rush things...just take small steps...if you need to rest from making progress towards them then give yourself permission to rest...and instead do something new each day/week instead. Something new can be doing something you already have done but in a different way or it can be doing something completely new. At one time I used to vary the walk to work, or take a walk somewhere before starting work. I would once or twice a month get up at 4am in the morning to watch the sunrise (every sunrise was different) and go to bed early that evening to make up for the lost sleep.
Oh and please persevere with the CBT you will eventually find your way into the methods that work for you. I found that if I wasn't ready to adjust my thoughts and limiting beliefs I used my WIllpower to change my behaviour in a situation...I broke the habits of my depression. I did a lot of whatifs and asking myself what would I do if what I thought were not true and what would stop me from taking actions that I would if my negative thoughts and beliefs were not true...I realised a lot of my negative thoughts and even beliefs that I thought were good ones were often holding me back because I expected others to live up to my high moral standards...in expecting them to behave in a certain way when they did not I experienced this as abusive and hurtful. It was unfair, unjust, etc. and yes...what ddid I do to deserve this that or the other...Then I realised I was projecting my values onto others and I would be hurt time and time again if I did this...so I changed my value from "I will not hurt others and they should not hurt me" to "I will not hurt others and I will attend to my safety and wellbeing if others attempt to hurt me....I will not associate with people who hurt me.Instead I will surround myself with others who do not hurt me." On reflection I realised that due to my desire to receive care and attention and love from others, I would often go out of my way to please or help others - often at the expense of myself...when I turned to them for assistance I was shocked when they dd not respond in the way I thought they should...I realised that in forming my relationships it was often based on them taking the help and me giving the help...so really I should not be suprised when they rejected the relationship when I turned the tables on them and asked for help from them...I decided to become more independent of others and to be more aware of my own needs (alongside those of others) and ensure that I formed balanced relationships where there was not a one-sided dependence. I started to change how I spoke with people. I was more direct with them. I no longer felt guilty in saying I was going away for a few days so I couldn't see them whenever they were at a loose end...etc.
Anyway...you get my drift...I wish you all the very best and a safe journey on the next stage in your recovery. Do keep me posted on your progress...I may have more insights about my journey to trigger some more creativity if you get stuck along the way.
Take Care Now.
Hypno
I wanted to make something clear: by the time CBT worked for me, I had already dealt with a lot of the underlying problems myself. Although I went to many many therapy sessions and said nothing, I would nevertheless come out with a determination to get to the bottom of what I was feeling. And so I would go home and write and write it all out till I figured out what was going on inside. Kind of becoming my own therapist, which we all msut do in the final analysis (forgive the pun.)
Anyway, by the time CBT worked well, I was ready to work on the more superficial issues in an open and honest way. I wanted my own apartment, I wanted to get away from a complicated mother/daughter relationship for a while, I wanted to face some everyday fears like the horror of driving to new places by myself. And the results were not 100% positive. I didn't learn to get out and drive wherever, that's still a problem. But the large task of finding my own apartment, and all that goes with that, was achieved surprisingly easily. And separation from Mommy's apron strings was begun and is still happening (do you ever become completely separated?)
What's more, with CBT, I was taught the relationship between thoughts and feelings and actions. And therefore was ENABLED to do the fighting on my own from there on out. Which is what I really wanted from therapy. I realized I didn't need another Mommy-figure to take the place of my real mother; I needed to set about mothering myself to the best of my abilities.
Just to clarify here. I didn't say Russian roulette, I said roulette - like the spinning wheel we turn to get the next medication (or so it seems).
Easy mistake to make, no problem. I did want to correct it, though, because I'm especially sensitive for personal reasons about referring to any potential method for suicide.
John
I found this article and the comments posted by other readers to be very insightful. I started therapy in June after a traumatic incident with my husband triggered PTSD and realized it related to trauma from my childhood as well. It is very hard for me to open up about personal and/or emotional things. I have a hard time trusting people. I find I analyze a lot and have not shown much emotion in my therapy sessions. I cry afterwards sometimes in my car on the way home, but I'm not able to be that vulnerable in front of other people, even this very caring therapist.
Also, while we have covered many areas of my life that have contributed to how I am today, there are a couple of things I haven't told her. I've downplayed how depressed I get and haven't told her that I have thoughts of suicide because I am afraid that she will want to put me on some medication or hospitalize me. I saw someone I loved go through that and he didn't even know what was going on or who I was some of the time and I think I have a strong fear of that happening to me. And I think I'm doing ok controling my reaction to the suicidal thoughts... I keep telling myself that I have to hold it together because my kids need me. I'm not sure what will be my reason when they are adults. I am sure that I will still have bouts of depression for the rest of my life. Some days I'm just so tired... it just feels like my life is too hard, too painful and too long and I just don't want to do it any more. But I think about how selfish it is to check out and how much damage it would do to my kids and so I hang in there another day, even if it means crying alone all day. And usually after a few days the feeling passes.
I have also been working with the therapist on how to be more honest with my husband and quit sheltering him from my true feelings about things in our marriage, etc. But I haven't told the therapist that I had a flirtation with another man that, after several years, progressed into actually cheating on my husband. I'm not sure why I'm having such a hard time with telling the therapist about this. It has caused a lot of the mood swings and depression because there are times that I completely beat myself up about what I did and how wrong it was, etc. But on the other hand, I really don't know if I'm sorry for doing it either. This isn't a real relationship and sometimes I feel used by this other guy and other times I'm grateful for the experience. I haven't even been able to talk much with my best friend about it. She knows some of what happened & has made her feelings about it clear - she thinks I'm the one that will be hurt by this... no strings attached thing. Most of the time I only feel comfortable if I have a lot of communication in a relationship and know how the other person feels and feel secure in their commitment to me. So this flies completely in the face of all of that. I let go of any expectations and it was just spontaneous and scary and amazing and more honest and he was more accepting of me than my husband. So sometimes I can be in a sort of Zen feeling of "it is what it is" and I may or may not ever talk to him or see him again. Other times I feel like I have obsessive thoughts about it because I have no idea what he's feeling or if/when I will hear from him. Now that I've posted this out there... maybe i can find the courage to be more honest with my therapist. Hey, I figure it's a start! I think i just don't want her to think of me as a bad person or think that I deserved the abuse from my husband because of what I did.
I know in the UK it is available on a limited basis, but Dialectical Behavioral Therapy is CBT on a more concentrated level as it is a group experience & is more like a class & has homework. It is not a "process" experience; you do that w/your individual therapist (which for me was the T that led/taught the DBT group) until she retired I think it's been 2 yrs. now!!
In that time I have interviewed about 8 therapists & gone to 5 DBT groups to try to find one that will meet my needs!! I think I've finally found one that is a 2-hour drive away, but for me (57-years-old) I found DBT was the BEST medicine I've ever had. I didn't realize I could "retrain" my brain & after having my 1st suicide attempt at 15 & my last 5 yrs. ago & having a mother w/schizo affective & she committed suicide when I was 15 & a "functioning alcoholic" father I didn't have a great start.
If no DBT is available there is also a FREE self-help group that is similar called "Recovery, Inc." It uses many of the same stategies of developing skills such as mindfulness, distress tolerance, self-soothing, radical acceptance, building positive experiences, reducing vulnerability to negative emotions, emotional regulation (a major "requirement" for being in DBT is emotional dysregulation--in a simple explanation--people are "walking on eggshells" around you & say you "over-react" or are a "drama queen" or as my husband says "looking to be hurt"--which is true. I'm watching for clues that he hates me, though he has been a faithful, loving husband for 36 yrs. & we've been together since I was 15 & he was 16, but inside I feel like he can't really love me so I would test him (before DBT) by doing rash & immature things--comparable to "running away from home" to see IF he will now be fed up & leave me...
Anyway, too many skills to write down, but so helpful that I've been able to get off Abilify (anti-psycholic), reduced my Lamictal dosage in half (w/the hopes of getting off it completely) & my meds provider is amazed that I can "pull myself together" as before if I started to feel sad about something I would pull all the sadness of my life into that moment & make it into a big deal instead of just feeling the genuine sadness of the occassion.
Anyway--if you are interested you can find more info. at www.TARA4BPD.org (originally developed by Dr. Marsha Linehan for those w/borderline personality disorder but now used for anyone w/emotional dysregulation or even eating disorders; I have bipolar 1, PTSD, ADHD, acute anxiety as dxes & probably more but I told my therapist & meds provider that that is quite enough, thank you). However, I fit right in the DBT group who were all women who had the dx of borderline & 2 others also had the dx of bipolar & I was the oldest by far!
Also, a certified DBT therapist is a special person who knows that "we" are doing the best we can; is non-judgmental & teaches us to be nonjudgmental (big concept in DBT as we judge ourselves so harshly, don't we?); available by phone 24 hrs. a day at no cost; realizes that people are feeling extreme pain w/their emotional difficulties & are extremely vulnerable.
The focus is to replace a person's views & beliefs about his/her life, not on personality traits. It aims to replace maladaptive behaviors (methods of coping) w/more effective ways of achieving specific changes & goals. It helps a person get what she/he wants or needs while helping him/her develop control of his/her life.
Goals of decreasing PTSD & increasing respect for self. Setting individual goals. Solving ordinary life problems. Learning how to have joy & freedom & stop self-destructive behaviors. Create a life that is sustaining.
I think for me DBT is a "medicine" I will take the rest of my life as I learn each week how to apply the principles & as I do the homework & analyze how effectively I'm applying what I've learned I have had amazing results. Finally at the age of 57 I see that my soul doesn't have to be full of turmoil; my life full of fear & loathing of myself; that suicide doesn't have to seem like a plausibe "coping technique"; that I can find some peace; that I can finally believe that my husband does love me...
And figure out who I am without all the pain & turmoil & chaos inside.
I wonder who I will be when I grow up.
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John, I get exactly what you're talking about and it's so funny that this post should appear after just getting back from a therapy session. Every single line of thought you mentioned, I have done it and still do it. I feel like I CAN be totally honest if the emotion is up and running at the time, but to bring things up is sometimes still hard, after all these years. Part of the problem, for me, is one of my lines of rationale is that I've been in therapy so long, I'm probably making stuff up so I don't have to quit, or that I should be embarrassed to not be "over" a particular issue by now. Lately, in fact, I think I'm looking for signs that she thinks there's nothing left to work on and wants me out of there when I don't feel quite finished.
So, I thank you for sharing that which I haven't been able to describe for myself and I'm glad to know it's not only me! All of the work of therapy is really about relationships with ourselves and others in our lives - the therapeutic relationship is another one, but in this one, we get to learn some things with (usually) less fear of chasing the person away. In my case, I think I used to test the waters to see what it would take for her to give up. She hasn't yet, but some amount of fear is still there. Isn't it frustrating???
I always found that the trust in others is never completely there until you completely trust 100% in yourself...and then trust in others doesn't become an issue anymore.
Hypno
Hi, Judy -
You've reminded me of a couple more tricks I'd forgotten to include - the making stuff up thinking is exactly right. I added a few more on a post at my blog, if you're interested. Testing the relationship seems to come out of that problem of fearing to trust anyone enough to talk intimately. That's been a big one for me.
Thanks for these insights. Lots to think about!
John
Hi, Hypno -
That's a good way of putting the trust issue. My problem has always been with trusting myself. I had such a huge problem with self-esteem - or believing in myself that I could never get to the level of complete trust in a therapist. When I'm feeling better, though, there is an intuitive comfort level that permits me to be open. Is your self-trust at that 100% level very often?
John
Hi there John..
Thank you John...Yes. Although at one time I would have felt it hard to imagine that it would return...My self trust has almost completely returned.Most days now I trust myself 100%...Whereas at one point it was zero. So much a zero that I told my therapist that I did not feel in control of myself, my decision making was extremely poor or non-existent - even when I made decisions they were always the wrong ones. I even asked her for total unconditional positive regard within the therapy room. Perhaps that is the ultimate level of trust anyone can provide to another...a non-judgemental attitude, a separation from behaviour and expression of thoughts and beliefs from the individual self, a willingness to explore behaviour and expressed thoughts as moments in time with the ability to change over time. It was as if my suppressed anger needed a vent and I was ashamed of my potential behaviour which I knew would be verbally disrespectful of others, my boundaries had slipped and I was in a chaotic behavioural state. I would leap into action in a totally unreflective manner. I was out of control.
I had difficulty with self trust until I realised that I experience this as an issue of self esteem rather than self confidence. Therefore, I no longer confuse the two.I can lack confidence but trust myself to recognise this in myself. Strangely enough, now that I am able to recognise these differences I can now experience being self-confident. When I lack confidence in my ability to undertake a task in a certain situation I am trusting of my own judgement and now I do not need to think in all or nothing terms. This allows me to problem solve the issue without all those past unhelpful negative self deprecating self-doubting mind chatter that destroys the soul. In trusting myself I can be creative in my problem solving knowing I am able to check and reflect on my decisions before leaping into action. In effect by offering myself total positive unconditional regard I can explore how my potential decisions or actions will affect myself and others before I act and without self criticism and without fear of failure.
Life now is so much calmer. Less stress. Less indecision. Less anger. Less blame. Less shame. Less guilt. Less doubt. I am living in the moment rather than in the past.
I live life with acceptance....acceptance that not everyone in the world has my same beliefs and values...acceptance that others may act in a manner towards me that is unexpected, in a manner that disrespects me and that this should not be a shock to me if that happens. By acknowledging this, I am able to maintain my boundaries, be able to be non-judgemental and ensure my safety and wellbeing without negative behaviours in response to their actions.
Regards
Hypno