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A wonderful message...
Merely Me
Thursday, September 10, 2009 at 10:12 PMre: A wonderful message...
JohnD
Saturday, September 12, 2009 at 02:44 AMThank you, Merely Me -
I'm sorry you know so well what I'm talking about. It's true these statements can hurt as well as pass by unheard. Once I tried to remind a close friend about my loving feelings as a friend - she was in a terrible state and became enraged. That kind of reaction occurs, I think, with people who are not yet open with themselves about depression - talking about love can seem like a demand they resent. (I do know about that, unfortunately.)
When said too bluntly, I think these statements of affection and love can sound like another way of trying to fix a loved one - trying to get them out of depression by talking. That's always a bad idea, no matter how genuine the underlying feeling.
What a mess this illness is!
John
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Feeling Ugly
Judy
Thursday, September 10, 2009 at 11:48 PMThank you, John, for this beautiful piece of writing. I think most, if not all, people with depression have felt ugly on many levels and the sadness of it all is that when we feel like that, we almost try to make it worse and look for confirmation of it everywhere. For me, when someone has told me something positive about myself, what makes me want to cry is that it seems so distant from what I think of myself that it almost makes me feel unreal, that I've lost myself. And yet, while part of me is putting up this shield so it doesn't get in, another part is dying for this, silently screaming, "Yes, yes, I need this so badly but I really don't deserve it." Well, I think we all need it very badly and I think that even just acknowledging the beauty in someone else's soul, we in some way acknowledge our own, if that makes sense. Now, I hope I remember what I just said the next time I'm having an "ugly" day!
re: Feeling Ugly
JohnD
Saturday, September 12, 2009 at 02:53 AMThanks, Judy -
That's a great point about looking everywhere for confirmation to deepen the inner belief that you're terrible. The idea of not deserving anything is also so strong - I did a post on that for Storied Mind quite a while ago. What could a worthless person possibly deserve?
You're so right about the double response - putting up a shield to keep out the loving words but inwardly longing to receive love - For me, I guess I couldn't imagine being worth anyone's love, so I lived as if it simply wasn't there. Fortunately, my wife doesn't put up with that kind of thing for long, so I kept getting reminders that my withdrawal was a cause of great pain.
Thanks for your really thoughtful comment.
John
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Untitled Comment
Tinymight48
Friday, September 11, 2009 at 12:41 AMI have been in steady therapy now for about 2 years and that's exactly what my therapist keeps telling me. I really hope there comes a day when it all comes together in my head and something positive just clicks into place. I have about the same self-image you talked about having when you were sick and in the world, I get half good messages from people and half not so good. Maybe one day I'll be able to look in the mirror and not judge who I see so harshly. Thanks for the hope.
re: Untitled Comment
JohnD
Saturday, September 12, 2009 at 03:02 AMThanks so much, Tinymight -
I'm glad your therapist takes the initiative to be positive - even though it's risky with someone who has a hard time hearing that sort of thing. So many just hang back and listen or try to come up with something to do right away to raise your mood level without looking beyond that.
I wish you all speed in getting to the place where you can look into that mirror and think - I'm a good person having a bad day - that's all.
John
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Thank you
LyraStorm
Friday, September 11, 2009 at 04:20 AMFirst and foremost I need to say 'thank you' for the beautiful comment - I'm trying to teach myself how to take a compliment. For some time I was something like you - I thought it was all about the person saying it, not me. For some years I'm pretty sure no one said any compliments at all, or if they did I didn't register them. It makes it hard because your inner voice is saying you're ugly (in all sorts of ways) and no one contradicts it (and at times confirms it).
Like you over time I've learnt to see I'm not as bad as I thought I was... I mean I'm not where you are but I'm a little better at it... I think I'm still a work in progress.
Still I no longer see myself as something repellent. Honestly for many years I'd actually feel physically sick when I saw my visage in the mirror and would make myself look at it as punishment. When someone said I might be pretty (a word I actually still hate to hear - it makes me think of pink, flowery... all the things I'm not) or something similar I thought it was all about them trying to be polite, struggling to find something nice to say to me, that sort of jazz... or even worse it was a set up for a joke. Then I got to a stage where I kind of believed what the person was saying when they complimented me but it hurt so much it made me cry - I so wasn't used to hearing it let alone considering believing it and would much rather have heard an insult cause that was what I had standard reactions ready for - it's what I was prepared for.This is a really well written post and I can totally relate and I just want to say thanks.
re: Thank you
rose martin
Friday, September 11, 2009 at 07:20 AMDear John, thank you for your wondrous post. Such is your writing, I could feel the anticipation of that veteran driving to meet the nurse, the carer of his dreams.
I always felt too that anything said in a Group session was BS to make each other feel better. We were asked to look to the left and say something we found nice about the other person, the man said,'youre warm and beautiful' I felt embarrassed and humiliated and that this kind man was being condescending and BS-ing me in order to 'help' I sobbed and sobbed. The little child within still thinks Im overweight, saggy, ugly, a loser, the rational woman says 'youre a survivor, a warrior, good looking , wearing well, strong,warm, intuitive. Depressions storm blows the thought patterns around like a tornado and Distorted thinking is very strong.
Handsome to me has never been features in perect symmetry or huge eyes and a perfectly toned jawline and high cheekbones. People eminate beauty, its the light in their eyes, the curve of their mouth, an aura, it transcends bumps and crooked noses and double chins, in both men and women.. and even in animals.
John I think it is impossible to really really love oneself and be depressed at the same time.
re: re: Thank you
JohnD
Saturday, September 12, 2009 at 03:48 AMHi, Rose -
Thanks for your kind words - I'm always grateful, and surprised, when something gets through to another depression survivor. I'm glad you've got those two voices you hear these days - it's a lot better than just the twisted one. You have such a beautiful way of describing things - esp about what depression does and also the beauty you can see in life. Strange, we can grasp that about other people while exempting ourselves from the ranks of those beautiful human creatures.
You're so right that no one can be depressed and self-loving at the same time - but, you know, I don't really get the loving oneself thing. The reason the remark about beauty moves me so much is that it's hidden away and denied so much of the time. We keep defacing and kicking at it to make it go away because it can't - it shouldn't - be true of us. That's so tragic.
My best to you -
John
re: Thank you
JohnD
Saturday, September 12, 2009 at 03:29 AMThanks, LyraStorm, for those kind words -
That's a familiar evolution you describe - I remember all too well either never hearing or immediately putting out of memory anyone's words about love. Sometimes, my wife would tell me that so-and-so said to my face how much she loved me in deep friendship and wanted to help, if she could. When was that? I'd say - She was here? And the belief about being repellant - ouch! - I still have to catch myself going there from time to time.
We are all works in progress! And I've been at for a lot longer than you have. It's weird to think that much of my life has been all about this struggle with depression - and learning about life the hard, hard way.
All my best to you -
John
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Untitled Comment
Anonymous
Monday, September 21, 2009 at 02:58 PMI am the female partner of a depressed man who tells me that on occassion he hates looking at himself in the mirror and it pains me every time. He is a very handsome man and a beautiful person but most times he doesn't see it. It's his depression that takes over him and I can see him fighting it with all he has...medication, therapy, meditation, diet, etc etc. I have tried to reassure him but as you mentioned, it bounces off of him and doesn't resonate. After a while, I feel like he may resent me for trying to make him feel better. Thank you for your post. It has shed some light for me in understanding what he is battling.
re: Untitled Comment
JohnD
Thursday, September 24, 2009 at 01:04 AMHi, Anonymous -
I'm glad the post was helpful. It's good to hear that your partner is fighting depression so hard. It's terribly hard to get rid of it permanently, but using all the available tools helps in fighting back and getting relief from the worst extremes.
The sad truth is - as I'm sure you know - that neither you nor anyone else can make him get better. That's something I've blogged about on my site (Storied Mind), and I'll return to that subject here.
I wish you well - I know what a strain depression is for both of you.
My best --
John
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Hi John!
This is a message that so many of us who have depression need to hear if we allow ourselves to listen. I can totally relate to what you are saying....when you are depressed it is like...the self hatred seeps right into your skin. The depression robs you of any light to see what is really true.
There are certain expressions that...are especially painful during a depression...such as "you are beautiful" but more so for me...that I am loved. During a very dark time I went for a walk with one of my best friends and...she told me things like...that I am a beautiful soul...and very loved and it hurt so deeply...I just wanted to reject it so much because I could not feel this way about myself. I sobbed.
How did you make that transition to listen? How does one feel beautiful inside and out?
Your writing is very hopeful and encouraging as always. Thank you for writing this...I hope that whoever needs this message will hear it tonight.