Beautifully done!
One comment made was particularly poignant to me as that WAS exactly what I've been doing for the better part of my life; "It is absolutely worth the risk. Love is what life is about. Of course it hurts. But I wouldn't trade my relationship with my late husband for anything in the world."
In the past I would avoid walking up to that beautiful woman, taking the chance on getting to know her (& her, me) from FEAR...fear of loss, inadequacy etc. Looking back, in many cases I was 'settling' for less of a woman than what I truly deserved. I've since resolved to 'dive in' with the understanding that if I'm somehow rejected, I'll know then & there AND have 'closure', rather than wondering "what if?".
Those two words were part of the slow death I had experienced over the years.
Hey thanks...I am so glad you liked this interview. Kay Jamison was absolutely wonderful and I had to stop myself from asking too many question. There were so many more things I wanted to ask.
You have such a great attitude...yes...stop saying "what if" and...go for the gold! Take risks. It is worth it. Otherwise you sit on the sidelines watching life pass you by.
Hmmm....I am reading the words I just wrote and thinking to apply them to myself.
Self reflection...can be a startling and wonderful thing. :>)
Wow, thanks SO much for the congrats! OK, here goes:
Being ON Effexor was an "emotional flatline" in most aspects of my life. I seldom experienced ANY depth of feeling, including crying, anger, happiness or joy. Of course the 'usual' sexual side effects were there; loss of libido, E.D.; again, FLATLINED. Hey, J Lo could have sat on my lap with her arm around me, said "Take me, I'm yours!" & I would have just shrugged. I also felt those 'electrical disturbances' in my head regularly; particularly when I was very tired; physically OR emotionally. All in all, Effexor was a VERY bad experience for me & I would NOT recommend anyone being on it...EVER!
Being OFF Effexor? First of all, remember I have been taking Hormone replacement (Testosterone) shots for about 8 weeks now so my overall sense of well-being was a huge factor. PLEASE get your Testosterone level checked & DEMAND to know the actual count! Also I have been an active participant in 2 life-changing seminars (next one in a few weeks) along with an intense leadership training week that involved among other things, climbing a telephone pole & making my way across a tight wire 40' high (ALL safety measures were in place so injury was not really an option). The whole experience was intense, emotional & draining, yet very enlightening & supportive.
My experience ran much deeper than simply getting off Effexor; it involved more of a LIFE change rather than a lifestyle change. I dug VERY deep inside & managed to unearth & deal with things that were buried so very deep inside yet were directing & ultimately destroying my life.
I've discovered that there IS life after Rx and I've opened myself up to LIFE & have decided to live it with a vengeance; to fall in love, to enjoy every aspect without "what if?", worry, fear of loss or a broken heart.
Please forgive me if I sound 'preachy', but this past week in particular has been SO very profound; I literally came back to life and I'm ready to do all of the things I've mentioned. You may recall my mentioning a time (mid-90's) when I was 'this close' to ending my life. Looking back I realized that I was ending my life a little bit each day until I was completely numb to the world & those in it. I became a 'dead man walking'.
To remove the "safety net" once & for all, I have flushed my remaining Effexor tabs down the toilet, where it all belongs. My next step is to 'fire' my physician.
What I did worked for me because it was what I needed to do & I was SO ready for a change for the better.
Look, there's no sense in fearing death. Those of us in the deepest throes of Depression experience a far worse thing than death; a living death. Please look into hormone replacement, life change...it may help!
Love to you all,
Carl
Hi Carl
I to took effexor many years ago for depression. But instead of helping me, it was making my mind go into overdrive. I could feel myself go out of control but to me at least I was feeling something. It took many months to ween myself off it before I really went nuts. That was the closest I ever got to suicide.
Annie
I enjoyed your interview, Merely Me - this is one topic that I have often wondered about: the difference between depression and grief. Sometimes I've thought my depression might really be grief from the past that wasn't safe to be felt at the time, or maybe years after the fact, realizing that I'd lost some important things. But that's different from the grief of losing a person in your life. In the case of the latter, I'd say it starts out with a terrible sadness, but I really believe that those we love do still live in our hearts. For example, one of my grandfathers died when I was 8 years old and still, nearly 53 years later, I think of him often and there is a place in my heart where he will always reside. It is so different from grief caused by trauma, neglect, etc., that ends up being depression. There are no good memories from that which I want to hold in my heart. Anyway, you've got me interested in reading the book!
Thanks Merely Me, that was a most interesting interview/Discussion. Glad that you got a good book recommended that you should read too about schitzophenia. I have suffered Depression since a child. 6 years ago i lost the only person left on this earth whom i could rely on - My aunt, to Ovarian Cancer, she was a very feminine beautiful and Romantic woman who adored her husband and had everything to live for. During the 9years she fought the Cancer, Twas at this late state that we got to know and love each other. When she Died i was Devastated. However, although the physical symptoms maybe looked the same [I collapsed - legs gave way with grief at the graveside], I cried endlessly for days, weeks. I missed her dreadfully, felt alone, felt bereft. BUT like Kay Jamison says, theres a huge difference between Depression and grief. Grief FEELS natural, it feels right. My thoughts werent distorted, I didnt feel a loser, a horrible person, I didnt feel a hopelessness, an irritation, an agitation, anger at people, inappropriate behaviour, Nope,, what I experienced was 3 years of deep grieving. Something inside just knows its a passage - something that has to be gone through. The tears, missing the person, feeling alone in the world. My Grief lasted longer as i no longer had anyone left. I agree with what she says about love. I have been hiding from it, fearing the hurt, the abandonment and scared it will throw my whirling into a Depression. i realise now, the price I pay for this 'Mental Lifeboat' is loneliness, nobody to share all my love with, nobody to enjoy life with. This has been a very productive post. Thank you Merely Me.
Glad you liked the interview Judy! I learned a lot through this. See...with my mother...the grief...depression and mental illness were just all one jumbled mess. I could not see any differences. As I watched my mother go through her type of grief I thought as a child...I will never ever want to go through that. But I never saw..."healthy grief." It gives me such hope to hear Kay Jamison talk about her experience.
I will be exploring more of the subject of grief in the next weeks so...stay tuned.
Oh I am glad you got so much from this interview Rose...I am sure Kay Jamison will love to hear that. It seems the theme most of us are picking up on is the love part...that yes it is worth the risk.
I am reading with such interest what your experience has been like with grief...that it feels natural and not like depression. I am now realizing...I have had no normal grief in my life. This interview has awakened some things in me which have been rather dormant. Not sure what to make of it all.
Yes Merely Me, When I experienced Dreadful Grief, it was like a Double Grief, as my Aunt who had paid for my clothes and invited me out [My mother who rejected me at 6months - her sister here in Ireland] she became close to me inthe 9years of her Cancer. Her daughters turned their backs on me after the Death and I had the double grief of missing her, my Aunt, my last guardian, and also the grief of being totally alone. Each Christmas, they invited me to Dinner, that brings up Grief, a deep sadness because of the hypocrisy. Now her Anniversary Mass is on Sunday, i received an email from her daughter,shes ignored texts and emails but it was Dear Favourite Cousin tks for the lovely Xmas presents and telling me the time of the Mass and that 'were all having Lunch afterwards and looking forward to seeing you, my favourite cousin !! This invoked a feeling of Anger/Depression/Grief. The hypocrisy is so annoying, and hurtful.
The inner child says 'ITs you' but I know Im not a nasty person. I think Merely Me, in your case it is a mix of Grief and Depression. My humble opinion - Your grieving a childhood that was ruined because of your mothers illness. thats genuine grief, but the anger, perhaps youre not aware of being angry, but the pain, the little child that lived with this person they couldnt understand, is understandably Depressed. Depression feels 'Sick' we beat ourselves up, we become agitated at feeling so low, so anxious, so exausted.Depression is mixed with thoughts, feelings,memories,bodily symptoms,with wanting to be 'well' when is this going to lift? Grief, is all consuming, you dont think.. the pain can be felt in the heart and stomach. its all consuming at first. Its still pain but somehow, the mind is gentle on itself..Its like as if the whole psyche realises its a passage, a normal pattern of loss, whereas, Depression for whatever reason, is the Chemicals out of synch and screaming much the same way as the person going into a Hypo or Coma is screaming 'I need insulin'. Sorry this is so long but trying to explain.
You are explaining really well Rose. I am just so sorry you lost this one person who meant so much to you. I can see why you would be so angry at your other family members.
You are right about my feelings...yes...anger is absolutely there. I never had the closure that I needed. My mother kept my father alive...it was like he was always there and my mother ignoring me...to tend to a ghost. I am angry for him leaving us like that...and I am angry that I never had a chance to grieve...I was too busy surviving. So strange that a man who is not present in my life physically has always been present in my life.
Okay then! Seems I have things to work out in grief that I haven't overtly thought about.
Anyways...thanks for sharing all that you do Rose...it helps me to release some of my feelings as well.
This was a good interview. I particularly agreed with the point that grief does not have a set timetable. As I mentioned, my husband has been dead five years and I still grieve for him. Time has made the grief more bearable and I do not spend as much time grieving but it still comes. I am very interested in reading both of her books and have put both on hold at my library.
I had a different therapist at first. It was a male therapist who had done a few joint sessions with me and my husband and then saw my husband alone. After my husband died I saw him for a at least a year and what helped was that he knew my husband. I did not cope well with the grief at first I just kind of stumbled along. But eventually I just told myself that there was a me who had existed before I met my husband and I would just have to remember who that me was and try to resurrect my singular personality. I still stumbled along and I had a breakdown about four years ago because there was more than just my husband's death. My father had died about two years earlier and then my mother passed away about a year after my husband so there was a lot of grief involved. I had the support of friends and I started going to church on a regular basis. I was baptised Catholic and have been attending ever since. Having a faith based community helps a lot.
Dear Anne 1123,Merely Me, Judy all, I agree about the time frame in Grief. When I did the Counselling Dip. we did some Grief Therapy. They said, [thats the Shrinks] that it usually 'resolves' in five years. Thats more or less the norm for the awful feelings of Grief to peter out. however, depending on whether your working outside the home, whether one meets anew partner and is able to fall in love, all this has an effect. Ive known many couples who literally die of a broken heart, esp Men who get heart attacks within 6months of their loved ones dying. This is where there is a great and enduring deep love. Ive known people though who were very much in love, like my uncle, who nearly died at the graveside with grief, but who met another woman shortly afterwards, and fell in love. That doesnt diminish the love he had/has for his wife, he still visits her grave, has her picture, misses her, but loves another woman and this is a great help. I know another woman who, althoug attractive and fun, coudnt look at another man, said she wasnt interested, is now 74 and lives a single life and looks forward to being reunited with her husband in the next world. His love keeps her going.
I think we're all different. Having a family around helps.Support systems. I have seen women come into their own 6months to a year after their husbands die, they join acting classes, golf and even start driving at 65. Its like they shed a layer and become a new person, This is part of the healing of the Grieving process. All I know is, it feels unbearable, its mentally painful,physically dreadful, the feeling the heart will literally break, but at no time does it feel like a sickness, its a normal process. I guess like having a baby is dreadfully painful...
Oh my Anne...so much loss. You are one strong person. I am not sure if I could survive what you have. I am so glad you had a good therapist and supports and your church. I am learning so much about grief just...listening to you all tell your stories. I am sure this is helpful to so many so thank you.
Rose
I wanted to say I thought about what you said. It has been five years since my husband died and I am trying to adjust. My therapist keeps hinting that I should consider a relationship. I told her that I would try to open the slammed door in my head. In other words at least be open to the possibility but I have no enthusiasm. I think it is different for different people and I know if I had met and fallen in love with someone that would have greatly altered my grief experience.
Hello Ann I dont think anyone [therapist or anyone] can suggest/should suggest that you try and meet somebody. Sometimes its the cure, its a new life. Sometimes it just re inforces the loneliness of the grief your feeling for your dead husband RIP. I do believe that you could meet somebody. Being alone now, I know that its lovely to have somebody in ones life, even if its to go out and have Dinner or see a Movie. Being alone is hard. However Ann, A watched kettle doesnt Boil [Irish Saying] so going out to a Class or Course where you ll be interacting with Men and women would be nice, trying to widen the circle of friends would be nice, and also raise the chance of your meeting a man friend. I say friend because I think youre still grieving... and thats ok. I dont know if I agree that somebody can be pushed along or hurried up, were all different. You know in your heart how you feel. What would your husband have wished? that may be the impetus to go out and perhaps join a Class or Group of people where you'd be socialising again... if youre up to it only. Therapists are great and helpeful but theyre not infallible, theyre not God and they havent walked in your Shoes. God bless you Ann. Live by your heart.
How do you feel better about yourself when you spend so much time fighting about foolish ideas, like I did with my dad and just barely get to be in touch. We needed more time. I regret it.
i lost.
I am sorry you lost. But I think it is the nature of things that we never have enough time with the people we love. Even though he is gone you can write him a letter telling him how you feel and whenever you feel bad take it out and read it again. Sometimes just getting it out of your head and on paper can help.
I know that what you are saying makes sense, but I think my state of mind will be this way till I get rid of the dark feelings I have. I will try and write that letter as soon as I can be comfortable with it. I know I have to battle my demons before I can move ahead with my life. Thanks for writing. I need the advice.
I am just another person with mental health issues so I don't want to push anything. I, of course, am not feeling your feelings. I just want to say that you don't have to feel any certain way and all your feelings are valid. If you feel you must fight them; so be it. But you don't have to. You can just feel them and accept them and let them go. I know this sounds easy and it is not easy. So I will just say I hope the best for you.
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hello
My thoughts race so much
I listen to angry music when I am angry
But then the mood changes and I listen to different types like softer.
Thats my experience
I feel guilty for feeling that way and doing these things
Jon
Hi Jon
I listen to angry music too. It feels good when I am in that mood. I think a lot of people turn to music to reflect their mood. Do you have a favorite group or song?
It is always good to see you. Thanks for stopping by to comment.
Hi Jon, thanks for your lovely email. Reading your post about being Angry, do you think that your Anger is hiding sadness or Grief over your friend?
Just a thought Jon.
What happens when you play peaceful, gentle music ?
Take Care Jon