My last therapist was fond of pointing out the narcissistic traits in others, usually in a very accusatory way. I couldn't help but wonder if she wasn't pointing the finger back at herself by doing so. She also said no "malignant narcissist" could ever be cured, that you are born that way. But I kind of doubt that. I rather think we are a blank slate when we are born and proceed to gather traits unto ourselves.
I recently read an exceedingly long treatise on narcissism, after this therapist told me now narcissistic I was. And I guess, from what I read, that everyone in the world has some narcissistic traits. But one of the underlying traits of the real full-blown narcissist is a kind of panicky underlying nervousness that the whole thing may fall apart if they don't consistently present an egotistical front. So I don't necessarily think being a narcissist is easy, even though it may seem that way from the outside. I think they actually do have a lot of angst and self-doubt. They just disguise it by disdain and putting themselves on a pedestal.
My ex was the supreme narcissist -- no one on the planet mattered except him. Whatever he wanted or needed came first, no matter who got stepped on. He was willing to use everything at his disposal to gild his self-image. Yet he was a pretty poor excuse for a human being!
A therapist told you that you were narcissistic? Was the therapist in need of treatment herself? I am sorry...I shouldn't say that. But when I think of someone with this personality trait you don't fit...anywhere in the description.
The literature give a very slim chance for this type of person to "recover" if you will from such a disorder. Personality disorders are tricky things...as in what are they? Are they genetic? Learned? Biological? Just is?
When I think of someone with this disorder I think of someone who may share some traits with a person who has sociopathic qualities...using manipulation to get what they want...and the lack of empathy. I think there are degrees to this as with everything. I do think we all have a bit of narcissism in us. We are human after all. But there reaches a point where the trait is pathological and causes harm to the person who has this but mostly to others in the narcissist's path.
Some of the literature I read such as an amazing article in The Harvard Business Review, pointed out that many narcissists are quite successful at what they do. Narcissists can make great leaders but there will be a price to pay, usually from this person's family or employees.
I think you are right...it must take incredible energy to keep up the false sense of self. It is like the Wizard of Oz...who is behind the mask?
As I wrote this article I realized I was using the word, "victim" a lot. I like to think we all have more control and that nobody is a real victim. But they actually do exist. And as I explored this topic the more it became clear that so many people do view themselves as being victimized by such an individual. I think it is because there is a certain amount of fraud involved. Behind the glowing exterior can be...a real bully.
I find the topic fascinating because our society is permeated with narcissism. We seem to love it. Just look at the tabloids. Look at the models who go around smacking their help or the movie stars who throw fits and we call it entertainment. We are a very dysfunctional society in so many ways...where we reward horrific behavior.
Thanks so much for your comment. As always you get me thinking.
Hi, Merely Me. I'd have to say that my mother is one major example of a narcissist. I think the sad thing is that the narcissist doesn't realize that he/she is actually very insecure and needy and probably believes he/she will disappear unless all the attention is focused on them. One of the famous things my mother does is make someone else's pain a jumping-off point from which to gain attention for herself. When I was in the hospital recently, for example, I told her and my dad to not bother to visit me because I wasn't that sick and because the walk to my room from the parking area was far too long for them, as they don't get around well. The next day, she called and said she was "on pins and needles and chewing her nails" because she felt like she should be there. When I was growing up, any problem I was going through became the cause of her insomnia and being almost hysterical so that I had to do whatever I could to try to calm her down and make her feel better. But the nature of the narcissist is that it's never enough. Nothing is ever enough.
How do I cope? Good question. I try to not get sucked in when these things happen and I try to pay her just enough attention so that she can't accuse me of neglect. She tends to play victim a lot - nothing ever goes right, people always treat her badly, etc., etc. And I think it is true that these are the ones who would be the last to ever be able to see it in themselves. I have a feeling that personality disorders are probably caused by some trauma or deficiency that prevents a person from maturing. It may not be entirely their fault, but that doesn't make it any easier to live with. Just like those of us with depression, it may not be our fault that we have this, but it's still our responsibility to take care of ourselves so that we can function adequately, if possible. Blaming others doesn't help us get better. We are so much better off if we can accept that.
I know well what you are saying. My mother will go to great lengths to have her own way, even if she is hurting someone else with her comments. Then she presents herself as having higher standards morally, and seems to think that gives her the right to judge others. Somehow the two ideas cancel each other out, to me.
I hear you Judy.
I think there are some people who love drama...and it doesn't have to even have anything to do with them...it is like they ingest any drama...in the family...of their friends...even the news. But there they are right in the center of it.
You are right...what I did read in researching this article is that some people having this personality disorder may have dealt with some sort of early trauma. But not all. It is one of those things which is very difficult to know what causes this type of behavior.
Thanks so much for your comment.
Why does virtually every author, counselor, person.... tells someone who lives, dates...with a Narcissist to run for the hills? How about the ones like me who want to change the Arrested Development from our childhood of rape, incest, abandonment and neglect which put me on this path? I have empathy, love, compassion but I have tried to be a team player in school and work but I never ever would get my turn, my credit when clearly due, my promotions(if I would speak up. I'd get the "we're a team here--no spotlights on individuals." Typically when others would make great strides there's a meeting, a party or a day off for that person..blah..blah...)
I have Narcissist traits but neither my T.Doc or P.Doc think I have a Narcissist Personalty or even have the traits. I receive Cognitive Therapy for GAD, PTSD, Survivors Guilt of rape and abandonment. Meds include Cymbalta, Deplin, Ativan and Gabapentin.
Also I have a Special Needs son who is Autistic and who is making good strides with class inclusion, GF/CF diet, extra Speech and OT... My extended family lives within 5 miles and keeps a wall up(Denial likely) and comes around on birthdays and Christmas... My wonderful son is 7 and my wonderful daughter who is Neuro-typical is 5. She is a lot of help with modeling and keeping my son from excessive stimmimg among other things.
Any and all thoughts, ideas, negative positive.......are highly appreciative.
Welcome!
We are very glad you are here. I guess I am wondering...are you self-diagnosing this in yourself since...your doctors do not feel you have this personality disorder? I think that there are levels to this. Everyone has a bit of narcissism in themselves. Some of the greatest leaders have some of these traits otherwise...they probably wouldn't be leaders. It is my opinion that things go awry when the individual cannot show compassion or empathy and becomes manipulative or bullying. From what you describe...you are not like this.
I have a son with autism too. We have an autism site you may want to check out. I am writing about my experiences there as a parent and teacher.
I applaud you for coming here and for reaching out. The fact that you are working so hard on trying to overcome your early traumas is to be commended. As I wrote this particular article I was cognizant of the fact that there are people who are the exception and who are trying to overcome this trait.
Thank you very much for your comment and I do hope you stick around to share with us.
My ex was a bully and there were times she was an emotional rapist. I have depression. She was embarrassed by that. It had to be hidden as best as possible. If I displayed any of the signs I was depressed, she would demand I see a doctor and get some pills. Then she would turn around and use going to the doctor and taking pills for every little problem I have against me. She always made herself come off as being tough as nails. She didn't have the luxury of running off to the doctor everytime she felt sad.
She never passed a mirror she didn't love. Even store windows that gave a reflection of her. Constant hair fixing. Checking for makeup. If she had a small blemish pop up and I failed to inform her, I was villified. She would check herself in the rearview mirror while in heavy traffic. She would constantly put down anybody and everybody about their appearance. Even our children. Not the just the usual, "you're not going to wear that!" stuff. She would make my daughter, even as an adult cry. My kids were afraid to bring anybody home with them.
When we would argue, she would take out (figuretively), what I called her "Book of the Dead". From it she would dig up things I had long forgotten, or could not remember at all. And would proceed to bash me. With no way to defend myself, I would shutup and backdown. It would be weeks before I could climb out of that hole.
One day, I blew my gasket and yelled at her to get some counseling. She refused. She felt there was nothing wrong with her. It was everybody else. She could not bare to have the stigma of having a mental illness be a part of her life. Yet, everybody else needed counseling.
Needless to say, we are no longer together. I still have depression, but I can manage it better without her around. There are still places I cannot go to, even a whole city, where I can hear her voice belittling me. I just have to patient and let time heal.
Thank goodness she no longer belittles you. What a monster. I hope your children don't pick up this trait. Time hopefully will heal all wounds. I was molested by my older brother when I was a little girl and I try to forgive him but he denies it to my older sister. He never brings it up to me...coward. If you would like any help I'll be around anytime.
Pat
I certainly appreciate your offer. My experience pales in comparison to what you went through. I pray that you get stronger everyday. I like establishing dialogues with others. Being an old Boy Scout, I try to live up to the oath we used to say. One part has always been important to me. "To help other people at all times". I have also been told and have learned that by helping others, you are also helping yourself.
So if you are up for some electronic talking, I'm game. But how to keep it between us? Wonder if this site has a way we can get connected through an offline source?
Ray
Wow...what a story.
I am so sorry this happened to you. I cannot imagine that this helped your depression in any way to be constantly bullied. One of the facts I did find in the literature is that predominantly men have this type of disorder but it has been my lifetime experience to understand that there are many women having these traits and a full blown narcissistic personality disorder. Men get bullied too but I think it is under reported.
This is why I am so glad you are here to share your story.
As far as your question about connecting with others...we do have an email system here which is private. Under the invididual's profile...there is a "send a message" link.
I truly hope that you are recovering from all this. Thank you so much for sharing.
I lived with a narcissist, my mother, for 20 yrs. Scarred me for life. A lot of the narcissistic traits apply to her, but especially the lack of empathy, and the inflated view of self. My mother has NEVER admitted that she was wrong in any way, NEVER!! Anything she has done was justified in her mind, someone else's fault, or just never happened at all.
I do agree that there is an underlying insecurity in narcissists. My mom is constantly interfering in other peoples lives and trying to fix their problems for them, according to her idea of how things need to be, but it is not really altruistic. It is her way of keeping her own world from crumbling, no matter how it affects others. She is the kind of person who thinks that if she doesn't like someone, or disagrees with someone, that gives her the right to insult them and judge them and infringe on their personal rights.
It is hard to describe growing up with a narcissistic parent, in any case I wouldn't know anything different. Mostly it is just feeling completely defenseless to stand up for yourself. In order to survive, you have to live your life around the narcissist, especially in the case of children. It is hard to grow up with any kind of self worth when you constantly question your every thought and censor every action in order to avoid the wrath and disapproval of your parent.
I think I will go to the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers link to see what they have to say.
Hi there
I am so sorry this happened to you. You must feel cheated out of a normal childhood. Has your mother ever had any moment of self-reflection that maybe she was causing you harm?
I just fixed the link to the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers website. It seems like a good site.
Thank you for sharing your story with us.
I lived with a narcissist, my mother, for 20 yrs. Scarred me for life. A lot of the narcissistic traits apply to her, but especially the lack of empathy, and the inflated view of self. My mother has NEVER admitted that she was wrong in any way, NEVER!! Anything she has done was justified in her mind, someone else's fault, or just never happened at all.
I do agree that there is an underlying insecurity in narcissists. My mom is constantly interfering in other peoples lives and trying to fix their problems for them, according to her idea of how things need to be, but it is not really altruistic. It is her way of keeping her own world from crumbling, no matter how it affects others. She is the kind of person who thinks that if she doesn't like someone, or disagrees with someone, that gives her the right to insult them and judge them and infringe on their personal rights.
It is hard to describe growing up with a narcissistic parent, in any case I wouldn't know anything different. Mostly it is just feeling completely defenseless to stand up for yourself. In order to survive, you have to live your life around the narcissist, especially in the case of children. It is hard to grow up with any kind of self worth when you constantly question your every thought and censor every action in order to avoid the wrath and disapproval of your parent.
I think I will go to the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers link to see what they have to say.
I had to respond because as I was reading your post about your mom and how she was, or is, I was reminded of my ex husband. It's good that you moved out when you did, and that you're going to the other website for daughters of narcissist's and getting more support. It's been a struggle for me to get over the abuse from my ex but now I don't have to talk with him now anymore. I can only imagine how hard it must have been for you growing up and now dealing with a narcissist mom. I hope that you find a good support system and have luck with the other website, stay strong and take care, and thank you for the post.
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My mother was very narcissistic. She had all the traits noted in the posts above. She taught me early to take care of her needs. I finally (a few years before her death) had to cut off all communications with her to protect myself. My therapist told me to think of it like an allergy--any contact with her made me sick. She finally died this past July. I do not mourn her.
My father also had narcissism. He actually translated and wrote his own version of the New Testament and wrote commentaries on it. I don't think he ever really understood the damage he did to me by his sexual abuse of me. He died in 2001. Since he was the parent who did show affection, it has been hard for me dealing with his duality.
patsyg
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Do you have a narcissist in your life? Unfortuanately yes. I was married to him for 9 years. I met him when I was just 18. When I was getting ready on my wedding day I had this feeling that I should just run.. How different my life would be if I would just listen to my instincts more.. When I was married to him he would yell at me for spending too much money, in front of the kids. When I had to make a phone call and he couldn't to it because of work, he would tell me word for word what to say, how to say etc... He threatened me into signing a separation agreement, he'd have me kidnapped and sold into slavery in another country... His mother is the same way. Everything is about them. The way they do things is the right way.
My 18yr son is just like his father it's scarey and it hurts, alot.. This past Mother's Day we were at the mall, my 2 son's and my one son's girlfriend and my older one (21yr) said he wanted to do something for me - get ice cream, dinner, etc.. but my 18yr wanted to leave go be with his friends. He knew his brother had just asked me what I wanted. I think he's very angry with me because I wasn't there for him when he needed - soccer games etc... I don't blame him. And I'm pretty sure his father has alot to do with his personality..
How are you coping? I feel like I can't do anything right sometimes. I'm still scared of him and what he could and can do.
Oh how frightful for you. I am so sorry.
Those are words and actions you just...never get over. And it makes you not want to trust anyone again.
You wonder where it begins? Is it learned? Genetic? How is it that some people turn so...mean?
I like to believe that it is never too late to start your life over. Even if it is the next day. To find people who are positive and good for you and your mental health. It is essential for growth and for survival.
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I am sorry these things happened to you.