Are Vitamins Harmful? The Question of the Week

By Merely Me Tuesday, October 11, 2011

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Hi all

Well talk about contradictions. Most of my doctors applaud me when I take my vitamins. I have been prescribed vitamins by some of my docs such as Vitamin D as well as B-12.

But wait...

Here comes the latest study which says that some of these vitamins may be harmful for us (us being defined as older women who routinely take vitamins).

Here are the details.

USA Today reports that according to a study published just yesterday (Monday October 10, 2011) in the journal, Archives of Internal Medicine, that older women who take a daily vitamin supplement (this includes a muti-vitamin) have an increased risk of dying of either cancer or cardiovascular disease.

Say what???

The average age of the women in the study was 61.
The researchers took data from the Iowa Women's Study to research the link between vitamin supplements and death rates for over 38,000 women.
They found that vitamin B6, folic acid, iron, magnesium, zinc and copper were associated with increased risk of death.
Iron intake was the supplement most associated with an increase in death among these women.
But calcium supplements were associated with a decreased risk of death for the women in this study.

Pamela Flores from our Osteoporosis site has given me a link to share on some commentary on this particular study. Pam, I do hope you will come and share your thoughts on this. I know you will have a lot to tell our members.

My personal opinion is that research is not totally unbiased and that we may not be getting the whole picture. As a consumer I find these types of studies very confusing.

What is your take on this? Do you believe that vitamins can be harmful to some individuals? Do you take supplements? Do any of you take supplements for your mental health? Are they working for you?

Here are some articles on the topic of supplements you may wish to read:

Mood Boosting with Vitamin D

Comments (23) | Add comment

Ricovring

10/11/11 5:23pm

Hi MM and all,

I have taken folic acid suppliments for about 5 years. I take so many other vitamins and have switched secondary anti-depressants so many times that I can not pin point any improvement from folic acid alone.

I found the Dr. Ballas' article on Deplin, and the 78 comments, to be encouraging reading. There are a plethora of testimonies to the effectiveness of Deplin in those comments. I was especially interested in one:

"mwiz
Of course Deplin and Cerepholin NAC are made by the same company. They both have the exact same primary ingredient as well, which is a modified form of Folic Acid that crosses the blood/brain barrier unlike supplements. However, there is a CRUCIAL difference b/w the 2. Cerefolin has ESSENTIAL B vitamins and other nutrients that make it exponentially more effective."

Dr. Ballas gets into technical explanations of chemistry, which

gave helpful understanding regarding production of Seretonin, Norepinephrine,

and Dopamine related to folates in your referenced article:Folate and Deplin: Effective Treatments for Depression?

Thanks you for giving provocative questions.

Ric

Merely Me

10/11/11 8:00pm

This is interesting what you say about the folic acid vs. deplin.

I just don't know what to think. It seems you read one thing and then something comes out to refute what you just read.

I take supplements too and I believe they help with many different things.

Eager to read what Miss Pam says...she knows a lot about supplements.

Thank you for your comment!

Pam Flores, Health Guide

10/11/11 6:17pm

I have to take exception with some of the analysis that came out of this study, and I'll start with iron, and this is just a general discussion of vitamins/minerals and not any specifically for depression. This study focused on postmenopausal women, and if you look at the iron levels of those women it usually increases after menopause due to the cessation of menstrual blood flow where you lose iron. So before taking supplemental iron, I would have my levels checked to be sure I'm deficient, because we do have problems with iron overload in postmenopausal women and also in men at various ages. One way to combat iron overload is to donate blood, which my husband did when he found out he had this. If you find you are deficient in iron then it makes sense to supplement until you've reached a normal level.

Copper is in most of our water if we have cooper pipes and drink tap water, and there again you should have this level checked. Where I'm going with most of this is to have all your vitamin and mineral levels checked. This way you'll know what you need and for how long. I don't know what form of D they used in this study, but if it was D2 that would explain some problems since it doesn't work well. You need to take D3, to see any significant rise in your scores and health benefits. I personally went through this and had an extremely low D level of 4 and took D2 for several years, during that time my score went up to 8 (normal is 30-100) but most D experts believe optimal is between 50-80 ng/ml. Once I realized this wasn't working I switched to D3 and within 10 months my score was 65. I see a doctor that will check all these levels and you should too. These tests aren't too expensive and at least you'll know where you stand and what to do.

It is ideal to get most of your vitamins and minerals from your diet, but unfortunately that isn't always the case. One way to get started on it is to use a good database or calculator to figure out your daily nutrient intake. Once you've done this you can add supplements to the total number you get from your diet. As always check with your doctor to see if you need to adjust your nutrient intake to meet your personal needs. Educate yourself on vitamin and minerals so you'll be able to make good decisions along with your doctor. A usual vitamin panel would consist of B12, D, Ca, phosphorus, Mg, melatonin, C, iron and others.

Merely Me

10/11/11 8:06pm

Oh my!

You know a ton about all this Pam. I am so glad you came to comment.

Do you think that vitamin levels are checked during a routine physical or must you ask for this specifically? My doctor does check on this and I was found deficient for Vitamin D and Vitamin B-12.

This all gets so confusing I must admit it makes my brain hurt.

They changed the food pyramid on us...pluto is no longer a planet and now...vitamins are supposed to be bad. What is next? lol

In all seriousness...thanks for stopping by to clear up some of the confusion. I will definitely check out the link to the calculator. I really want to figure out what I do need supplement-wise. And the next time I see my doctor I will ask him about this study and what he thinks of it.

Pam Flores, Health Guide

10/11/11 8:51pm

Hi Merely Me, some of these tests may be done in a basic metabolic panel, but most you have to ask for. Since I posted last, I ran across another article on this that your readers may find "interesting." Shame on AMA's Archive of Internal Medicine The biggest thing that bothered me, well one of the biggest things, was this self reporting over 19 years taken only 3 times. They were asked if they took a multi-vitamin, and we all know you can get some horrible multi-vitamins out there. They didn't ask what kind, what's in it etc, and I wondered how many really remembered if that's what they took; trying to remember what you did over 19 years is kind of hard...And this was the basis of the analysis. It's a bit more complex than that, but not by much. Read the above link it is VERY interesting.

To be on the safe side with vitamin testing, look all of them up and ask for each one. If some are included in basic metabolic panels or comprehensive met panels, well that's great, but I know magnesium is a seperate test and you'd need to ask for that specific test. Magnesium is so important and if you have a malabsorption problem, which many do, you won't be utilizing it anyway, and down the toilet it goes. The other problem with Mg is most buy magnesium oxide and only 4 % of that is absorbed. I use a topical mag gel that also helps with sore muscles, leg cramps, induces sleep and it's Ancient Minerals 100% magnesium chloride. You can also use epsom salts in the bath or do a epsom or magnesium powder foot bath which is loaded with magnesium and it's absorbed quickly, plus it makes you feel wonderful.

For more reading on supplements see:

1. Nurtritional Magnesium Assoc

2. Vitamin D council

3. Linus Pauling Institute (OSU)

4. Life Extensions (this is a commercial site, but they have a GREAT digital magazine) check it out.

I need to thank my Mother for being a avid vitamin/mineral/healthy diet advocate since I was very young and we gained a lot from her interest and education in nutrition and all things healthy.

Take Care and get your vitamin/mineral levels tested please!

Merely Me

10/11/11 9:06pm

Hmmm....

I am reading this article you linked to...I am siding with what they say. The study makes such sweeping generalizations...I bet there will be some comeback or research to dispute their "findings."

It really smacks of some sort of bias to me.

This is my personal opinion but I think there is a battle between people promoting prescription drugs vs people promoting supplements. And I think this bias enters into the research big time.

You are right...so many details left unsaid...what sort of multi-vitamin? What was in the vitamins? It appears on the surface as though they had a conclusion in mind and they..."found" the data to support it.

Perhaps some of our members have a differing opinion.

Let us know what you think out there!

Karen Lee Richards, Health Guide

10/12/11 1:46am

Thanks for the link to the article, Pam. It sounds like this "study" is just what I suspected – poor data, full of generalizations, with no real validity. Very interesting analysis.

Druggie

10/15/11 7:14pm

I was thinking about this the other day. Most of us take supplements rather blindly. Do I have a deficiency in vitamin D? How about B6 or A or Calcium? Or do I have too much? I dunno. Hey, these pills have ALL of them, I'll just take one of these every day, for the shotgun effect.

Best to get them measured by the Dr.

And, best to study up, cuz osmium interferes with vanadium absorption, and fredonium interferes with plutonium absorption (i just made those up). After you graduate with your PhD, you ought to be ready to go out and buy some.

What we really need is a device that measures our blood levels every morning, and cuts us a custom pill (or a handful of mini-pills) with just the right everything. And it already knows about vitamin D3 and Osmium and stuff, so we don't have to mess with it. 100 years from now, that's what we'll have.

lonelyone

10/11/11 7:39pm

After getting a Gastric Bypass I was told to take Vit B12 500mg per day and that has been 5 years ago and my GP checks it every 6 months. Also my Vitamin D level was checked and was very low so I take Vit D daily and weekly. I've found that it doesn't make my depression any better.

Merely Me

10/11/11 8:08pm

That is interesting...

What would happen if you didn't take these vitamins?

A shout out to Judy...Judy do you take these vitamins and do they help?

It all makes you wonder.

Thanks so much for your comment.

Pam Flores, Health Guide

10/11/11 8:58pm

Lonelyone, it's very difficult to absorb supplements after a gastric by-pass. Have you tried spray vitamins, or liquids instead? Also, what form of vitamin D are you taking? If your Dr. is prescribing it it's probably D2 which is not very good. You can get high doses of D3 from reputable sources online, plus some pharmacies have D3 in large doses i.e. 50,000 IU's. I don't remember what you said you were taking, but thought I'd mention this. If you need a online source for D3 here an excellent one from BioTech. This company is supplying all the D3 for a major study on it in San Diego on children.

Good luck...

lonelyone

10/14/11 6:41pm

I am taking D3 thank you

Judy

10/11/11 9:16pm

Okay, okay, here I am! I am skeptical of this latest story, too, and agree with Pam on many points, especially the iron. I also had gastric bypass, so my situation is a little different because I don't metabolize a lot of vitamins as well as someone without the surgery. I have to take two multiple vitamins a day, 1200 mg. of calcium (plus eat dairy), a B12 shot every month, plus I take fish oil and D3 (have I missed anything???). I really can't say if any of it helps my depression, but I'm sure I'm better off physically just because of my circumstances. I question the study techniques, too. A lot of these things, they don't say what other factors may have been present, it's subjective reporting, etc., etc. I take most of these things with a grain of salt, myself. My doctors know what I take and I get my vitamin levels checked every year because of my surgery, so I'm not going to worry about it!

Merely Me

10/12/11 7:35pm

Hey Judy

I appreciate your thoughts. I like your attitude. Right...you doctor and you know what you need and you will stick with what you are doing.

It just doesn't sound right to me. I may write up a post about research in general. I am having a hard time believing much of anything I read any more. By the time a study reaches the general public it has been twisted in so many ways...much of it is meaningless.

We seem to divide everything these days into good or bad and...with foods and supplements...it is a little more complex than that.

Thanks again for your comment.

Karen Lee Richards, Health Guide

10/12/11 1:33am

I tend to be very skeptical of studies like this. It was not a carefully monitored clinical trial, but rather a questionnaire filled out by several thousand women over a period of about 18 years. Without knowing exactly how the questions were worded, there's no way to say whether the conclusions have any validity or not.

What I've found with other similar studies is that the questionnaire may give a list of vitamins and say something like, "Place a check in the box next to each vitamin that you take at least once a week." Often missing is important information like the dosage taken, how often it's taken, how long it's taken and the quality of the vitamin used.

I also found it interesting that the study listed "mulitvitamins" as one of the culprits associated with increased risk of death. Exactly what does that mean? I could go to the store and pull a dozen different multivitamins off the shelf and no two would have exactly the same ingredients.

Generally I take studies like this with a grain of salt. Show me a well-regulated clinical trial and I'll pay more attention.

Personally, I take vitamin D3, CoQ10, NADH and krill oil every day – each for a very specific purpose related to one of my diagnoses. I'm supposed to be taking B12 and calcium as well, but for some reason I seem to have a hard time remembering to take them. I'm working on that. I've discussed each supplement with my doctor and am taking them with her blessing.

I agree with Pam that our doctors should check our levels for various key nutrients to determine what and how much we need to take. Since I don't have insurance, I can't have that done as often as I'd like, but I do have my levels checked whenever possible.

Marishka

10/12/11 9:22am

Hi Karen,

I may go back to your site soon, what supplements have you taken to help with 'fibromyalgia' and 'chronic fatigue' specifically?

thank you,

Marishka

Interesting... just read a book by a Native American shaman who says that a certain tribe had no heart disease although diet consisted of much very fatty fry bread. He explained it in that because they were so happy while they ate, together and in community, they did not suffer from any ill effects that such food would typically cause. Who knows??!!

That how they felt when they ate was more important than what they ate....

I still believe good soil, your own or local organic foods ...and supplements I believe are good too...everything in moderation perhaps.

I like to eat in silence by myself or silence with company.

I need to study Belize; this seems like a happy, healthy culture. When I do, I will post something about it. Funny, I have met people in this country from Mexico, Honduras, Panama, Guatemala, Chile, Ecuador and many other Latin American countries. NEVER anyone from Belize!! Why not one may wonder?

tangent a little...

Merely Me

10/12/11 7:40pm

Karen...

I agree with everything you are saying. A questionairre can be leading. Also...it could be that some people are taking more supplements because they are ill with something. There are so many other factors here that are grossly overlooked...I can't see how they could reach such a sweeping conclusion. It appears on the surface that they wanted to reach this conclusion somehow. But hey...it makes headlines. I am sure we don't hear about many studies because they have no dramatic "results" like death. You know?

I really appreciate your expertise on this. I like to think that research can educate us consumers of health products but...sometimes...not so much.

Thanks again for stopping by.

Karen Lee Richards, Health Guide

10/17/11 2:05am

Hi Marishka – You asked what supplements I take specifically for FM and ME/CFS. I take vitamin D3 for pain, CoQ10 for energy and NADH for energy and cognitive function. I used to take a magnesium and malic acid combo that helped with the pain, too, and am thinking about starting to take it again. – Karen

jpw2008

10/12/11 9:00am

ever since I started taking medicine,I wondered if the supplements I was taking were taking would affect that

Thank you for posting

Jon

Merely Me

10/12/11 7:42pm

Hello Jon!

How are you doing?

What supplements are you taking?

I feel for me...when I take supplements...eat right and exercise...get enough sleep...I absolutely do feel better. I think supplements can help in combination with other healthy lifestyle factors. How helpful any particular supplement is....I don't know.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us.

jpw2008

10/12/11 8:07pm

I take a b supplement, Ester c,turmeric and d

I had a mania spell and now am in a depressed state

Jon

Druggie

10/15/11 6:26pm

First problem: "USA Today reports that ..." My experience has been that the mainstream press goofs up anything technical; the journalists typically just don't understand. Much better I think is the later link you had from an expert, "some commentary...".

As the commentary said, this study said supplements 'were associated with' greater death. If you're a layperson, 'associated' means 'causes'. Wrong. If A is associated with B, that means one of three things:

1 - A causes B

2 - B causes A

3 - Some other factor, C, causes both A and B.

You have to consider all three possibilities.

For instance, maybe women who took the iron supplements felt they needed it because of some symptom or disease they had. Then, disease causes iron supplements, and disease causes early death. Iron supplements did not cause death.

(Another example, kids get better grades if their home has more books on the bookshelf. So parents go out and buy more books, hoping that their kids will get better grades. Turns out, smarter parents cause more books, and smarter parents cause better grades.)

Also remember, their study covered older women - not applicable to younger people or men. (MerelyMe - you don't look nearly that old!) And also, the real study said Iron supplements hurt, but Calcium supplements helped. Compare that with USA Today writeup that said "...who take a daily vitamin supplement ... have an increased risk of dying...".

Last thing to remember is that the life sciences are notoriously fickle. When I was a kid, margerine (triglycerides) was assumed to be better for you than butter! TVs gave off 'harmful' xrays. Homosexuality was a 'disease' to be cured. Over the years, the consensus on dieting has gone thru phases of high/low fat, hi/low carbs, etc, and the latest is low sugar AND low saturated fat, but high complex carbs AND high monounsaturated fat. Diet salad dressings still have lots of sugar; cuts of beef are still considered 'better' the more fat they have in them. I try to follow the advice, but I take it all with a grain of salt.

Pam Flores, Health Guide

10/16/11 1:07pm

Hi MM and members, here's more on this study that is very interesting. Check it out! http://www.naturalnews.com/033883_vitamins_mortality_risk.html

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