I, like Paul in York, have considered ECT. In fact, I haven't ruled it out yet. I decided to wait until I have tried everything else due to the high relapse rate of ECT patients. But, desperate times call for desperate measures. If things get really bad again, I'd consider ECT.
I've been on the chocolate/peanut butter treatment these past few months. I eat one nutty bar per day when I get home from work and I feel great instantly. Of course, weight gain is a problem but it's worth the few minutes/hours of relief.
Thanks for looking at other treatments, Merely Me!
Curt
Hey...I am all for chocolate therapy myself. 
I do hope this has been helpful. I feel we have a really nice balance here of folk who have undergone this treatment and have greatly disliked it and some who thought that ECT was primarily effective. One can conclude that the decision to participate in ECT is a deeply personal decison and one not to be made lightly. I do appreciate you stopping by to read and to comment. Always glad to hear your input.
Hey Merelyme,
Very good article. I like the fact you present both sides. I had ECT in 02 and it was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life. I've written about it, spoken in public about it, and advocated a bit for Ray Sanford recently.
My take is this. Look into it, weigh both pros and cons. Don't feel forced into it, as I was and my parents were for me. The side effect for me were horrible. I saw some people get it who got better, and for some people like me, it did nothing, and the memory loss was terrible.
It's a thorny issue, it's definately the proverbial elephant in the living room. I applaud you for tackling it and writing about it with equanimity.
Thanks Susan...I wanted to write about this...get some more information because so many folk who suffer from deep depression do think about getting this type of treatment. I have not had it and I can tell you quite honestly...I would never consider it for myself. My mother's stories scared me too much. But perhaps for some it works? I am so glad you stopped by to give your point of view. It is so important for folk to get both sides of the story. Thank you for sharing your experience here with us.
Around 2000, I was hospitalized for Bipolar II Disorder, in a state of suicidal depression. The third time I came back that year, they persuaded me that ECT was my only real option. My boyfriend, my best friend and others tried to talk me out of it, but I was so ill I didn't care. Didn't care about my objection to this course in a healthy mindset, didn't care, full stop.
I went through over twenty "treatments". I cannot recall 1999-2002 or 2003. I don't remember 9/11, which is not the blessing some says it is. I was still slicing open my wrists, even though I couldn't remember that I didn't need to go to work. The faintest glimmers of that time come to me. One of which was wanting ECT, because I'd be knocked out.
It was categorically the worst choice I have made in my life, made at a time when I was in a hospital, to stop me from hurting myself. I get so angry when people talk about it as a safe option. Twenty odd shocks killed my brain for more than three years. I cannot think of a psych med that would do such damage so swiftly.
I would agree that the ECT does not change the person. My best friend watched many movies I picked during that time with me. I would keep picking the same ones over and again, because I couldn't remember having seen them. She said by about the fifth time, I got an inkling that we'd seen it before.
It took me years of working on crosswords to rebuild my mind. But I can never fully bridge the chasm. I'm only able to walk to the edge and look across.
Merelyme, thank you for taking the time to write about this. It opens a door for many to learn and share about ECT.
I am so very grateful that you came by to share what you went through in undergoing this treatment. I can see that you and susan share the same sentiments. I would be absolutely terrified to lose any part of my memory. I am so sorry this ended up being such a horrible experience for you. This definitely is a controversial topic and you all are being so very gracious...I humbly thank you for sharing your story here. It just opens the door for me to wanting to know more about how you have survived.
You said the only thing you liked about ECT was "being knocked out." I agree. ECT was on the whole a negative experience for me. I had 19 sessions and experienced lasting memory loss. (Even thought my doctor swears that doesn't happen.) But I do remember "going under" when they gave me anesthesia and it was blessed relief from depression, even for that short period of time.
I tend to agree with you but if it does help the individual for whom...nothing else works...then I suppose it is worth the risk? I do not know the answer. It is a deeply personal decision to make. I think the bottom line is...every treatment bears some sort of risk. What would you be willing to sacrifice? Thank you so very much for your comment.
I have bipolar type 1 disorder. In the sixties I received a series of ECT's when I had been in a mental hospital for nine months and nothing was working to help me recover from my depression and psychosis. My family said they saw improvement in me very soon after starting the treatment. Without them I might have been in that hospital a lot longer than I was. There was some memory loss but it was not significantly bothersome. The symptoms of my illness were far worse to deal with than this. Such a relief to recover from the suffering and to be released from the institution!
You're going to laugh at this: It was so long ago I don't clearly remember. My husband says though that what I did have was some short term memory loss. I didn't forget everything - just some things - just recent things. I'm glad because I know now that the ECT's given in the sixties were pretty crude and not as safe as what is given now. In the long term I don't think I've had any lasting problems.
I have a friend who has had multiple treatments. It's the only thing that seems to help her depression and she has tried suicide many times. She is presently getting maintenance treatments, once a week or so. In the opinion of my own psychiatrist receiving so many is not a good idea. Yet her doctor seems to think it's ok. There are many things I've done with her that she has no recollection of.
The decision to do or don't do ECT is a difficult one. It needs an evaluation of risks and benefits of ECT as well as an evaluation of risks and benefits of other options if there are any left.
What is also important about these side effects is that some have these side-effects and others don't or in a lesser degree. It is possible that some are more prone to develope these side effects. There is some evidence that cortisol has something to do with this. Cortisol is a stress hormone which is elevated in some depressed patients and not in others. W're almost finishing a trial in which we try to discover the influence of cortisol levels on side-effects.
Thanks for all your comments, fuels the mind and keeps us alert,
kind regards Dr Shock
I find the Cortisol link interesting. I have gained significant weight, since beginning treatments about ten years ago. My balance was shot, so I was unable to ride my bike and the medications and depression helped. Along with a lot of junk food!
This year, I've managed to lose forty pounds and would like to do the same next year. A significant amount of my weight is in my belly area. I understand this form of fat storage is related to cortisol, also.
Mental illness is certainly a stressful experience!
i am a recent electroshock "survivor." i just, about 5 weeks ago, finished having over 80 treatments within the past few years.
for me, it was a tremendous help. i didn't realize how much it helped until i stopped, and recently sunk to a very deep and low level of depression. one i know that a trip to my ect doc would have fixed.
my husband has told me how i became "nothing/no one" during the years of ect. especially towards the end, the last 20 treatments or so, he says i had no personality and would stare at the walls all day. also, i began to lose my memory a bit (but nothing like that which i am living with now). i describe those past 20 treatments especially, but also the years during the early ects and hospitalizations, as "numb." i was numb. i didn't feel anything emotionally. and sometimes, today, post-ect, i really miss that option.
i look back on the severe memory damage that i am dealing with--some of which does go back long-term (but not loooong-term)--and i am appalled that i allowed anyone to do that to me. i think of how vulnerable i was during the treatments, and how vulnerable i am now as a result of my memory failure. i cannot remember anything from 2006-end of november 2009. i lost my ability to look forward, as well. meaning, that i cannot drive anywhere without practice anymore. i no longer remember the route automatically to my therapist's office. i practiced several times (and got lost the first) until i finally re-imprinted it into my brain. i am like that with driving everywhere. i need to practice until i am able to "remember" (or re-embed) it again.
there is a great deal more memory issues and loss as a result of the ect, and i am still forgetting things in the moment, despite how mindful i am trying to be. for example, back in november, while i was still getting ect treatments, on my husband & i's anniversary, we ran into some old friends at the restaurant we were at. just today i emailed that friend and said that i missed her and hadn't seen her in a long time. her response was that it had been great seeing me in that restaurant. when she said that, i asked my husband what restaurant and when, and as he told me, i remembered that we had seen her, but nothing of the actual event or actually seeing her itself.
so yes, the ect did help me immensely--it kept me alive for a few years when i wouldn't have survived otherwise. at the same time, it *did change my personality and my memory during the treatments. the memory after-effects are horrifying, and enough to make me re-consider the treatments should they ever be offered again.
i also have noticed, that here in america, many self-injurers are now being offered ect as an option for their depression.
and re: my insurance. before the deep darkness of my depression hit, i was a fairly successful person. i published a book (really!), had a job that paid enough to support my family so that my husband could be a stay-at-home dad to our special needs daughter, and had awesome insurance. however, due to the depression i went on part-time disability. at some point, the insurance stopped paying for the ect-treatments and the medications (i was on between 8-11 meds during this time), and i went on full-time disability and was laid off from the job i loved so much. we then applied for medicaid, got it, and after a monthly $300 deductible (we paid the $300), my hospitalizations, ects and medications were covered. it was a deal; considering how expensive each ect was.
i've rambled and rambled -- but hope this has been some sort of helpful. i'd be delighted to "converse" more, if anyone is interested. i am currently working on my 2nd book (i have a pre-paid advance and contract already signed) -- and am finding myself unintentionally weaving some of my experiences of the past few years into it. it's been quite a journey, and continues to be, 5 weeks post-last-ect.
This is a great interview on a subject that I admittedly find a bit frightening, but then again, many invasive treatments for other physical problems seem that way at first glance. I am wondering, however, exactly how ECT works or is believed to work at the physical level. Clearly the shock has a dramatic affect on brain activities and causes some memory loss? Is it the loss of these memories that is thought to give the patient an advantage toward recovery, or is this simply a side affect, and if so, what is believed to be the cause of the benefitial effects reported in many patients? Aside from the shocks themselves, what other therapies are employed during the period of treatment?
And thanks to Dr. Shock and Merelyme for providing this information and insight.
The short answer to the question about the working mechanism of ECT is: we don't know. ECT is in that respect not very different from anidepressants or antipsychotics or any other psychiatric treatment. As with medication a lot of hypotheses are stipulated about the working of ECT. It has effects on the stress sytem as well as on neurotransmitters, as just a few examples.
Memory problems are a side effect and have nothing to do with the cure. Recent developments have introduced the ultrabrief puls stimulus with no or seldom cognitive side-effects and in unilateral treatment good efficacy.
During ECT treatment our patients participate in activity treatment and exercise treament if they are up to it.
Take care Dr Shock
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I have had 75 treatments (yes, 75) since 2007.
My short term memory is shot; I have forgotten bank accounts, the way to my daughters house, family functions, and worst of all...people. When I grocery shop, I keep my head down so I won't run into someone who knows me, I know I won't have a clue as to who he/she is. My long term memory is not as bad, but has also been very much affected. I used to be an excellent speller and now I find myself stuck on simple words. That being said, it is only fair to say I might not be here today if I didn’t have ECT. My last one was 5 months ago. I am on the verge of tears most of the time, but after my last experience (horrific) I am terrified to go back. Without the ECT my depression isn't being controlled. I feel I am slowly loosing my husband, my kids, and my friends. I don't really blame them, I know I must be difficult to live with - always crying.
I also know I will NEVER be the same person I was before 2007.
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The movie you mention was my first exposure to the concept of ECT. I've never had ECT, but there was a time I considered it, after getting past the movie, when looking into what could rel![]()
ieve and control depression.
This is the first chance to see what a doctor who actually does the work has to say. I don't think ECT has a greater possibility of risk than the chemicals we use and that both could cause long term problems, or relief. The stigma and memory loss, make it diffcult to consider, along with the image of being shocked voluntarily. Going under anesthesia that many times seems risky, but then severe depression can make the lights go out too.
Thank you for branching out and including doctors in your interviews, it made for very interesting reading and is helpful. Haven't seen anything like this here before. Oh, and chocolate therapy is my favorite!
It certainly must be a very difficult decison for anyone to make...to consider ECT as treatment for depression. I am quite jaded personally from my mother's stories. But it seems...for some people it actually might help. But of course there are the severe risks. I am grateful to Doctor Shock for granting us this interview...and I hope that it was informative despite the controversy surrounding this type of treatment.
I want to thank you for coming by to participate in this discussion. It is good to have such a wide range of views here...this is exactly what I was hoping for.