what's going on...anxiety-related depression?

By Donna-1 Friday, November 26, 2010

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Is there such a thing as depression caused by anxiety? Yeah, I know, that's a stupid question. Maybe all depression is related to anxiety. I don't know. It just seems like some people I know can go about otheir lives basically doing what they want to do and it doesn't bother them. I spend a big part of my time thinking about how to make other people happy and make their lives better, but I'm not sure it is totally altruistic. It is like that guilt we were talking about a few posts ago. I feel I must drop all of my own plans to accommodate the needs of others, and when I don't, there is tremendous anxiety. What if they don't talk to me anymore? What if they hate me (which I guess is unlikely)? What will happen if I need their help some day -- will I be able to ask for it if I don't help them now? Sometimes it seems like I might as well go ahead and do whatever it is so my conscience can come back with a "not guilty" verdict.

I want to be able to hold my head high and not fall to the pressures of crazy-making behaviors of others. I know the extremes are those who give and give, and those who take and take. And I'm really not talking about going that far. Just everyday stuff. "Will you please do this for me, but it has to be done by the end of the week" (when the person could do it his or herself.) "I know this is an imposition but can you take my place and do the introductions next Sunday?" (when the person is going to be there anyway.) "Would you mind...? I thought you might be over in that part of town...? I know you aren't working so this once can you...? We're going out of town and since you live next door would you take care of...? The kids are getting out of school early and I just can't be there to pick them up so...?" And it isn't always bad. But it is rarely good, either.

It's like I put myself out there to be a doormat sometimes. Everybody says, "Just say 'no'." Even Nancy Reagan, right? But how do you say "no" if it is your sister-in-law, or your bosses' wife, or the woman who has been at home with a sick child for a week? I know it can't be selfish to say NO SOMEtimes, and not ALWAYS say yes. But how to grow a backbone and do it without feeling guilty?

Any suggestions?

Saphris and negative symptoms

Comments (8) | Add comment

LyraStorm

11/27/10 12:05am

Hi Donna,

I think you are getting better at being able to say no - from bits and pieces I've seen you write up on here recently. A good rule of thumb is to look at your own mental health - what is going to be the greater evil: saying yes or no? Then you factor in who the other person is and what it is that they might want... but part of whether or not you are capable/able to do it is your mental health and I think lots of people tend to forget that (or won't let that be an excuse for themselves because they feel guilty - but how much worse is it if you fall to pieces and can no longer do what you promised to do?).

It is tough, and I'm not great at it myself, but my general rule of thumb is to look at my mental health and go from there. And it is also very important to remember that everyone is going to say no sometimes, so that doesn't make you evil.

Donna-1

11/27/10 6:59am

LyraS. -- thank you for the wise info. That is true about weighing the effects of saying "yes" or "no." Part of my problem is going on the Saphris now and it is making me feel so much better than in years past, it is a new feeling to have energy and a positive spirit. I don't want to commit myself to too much during the holiday season only to find I'm in over my head. And I don't know yet where the cut-off point is!

Happy holidays to you.

Donna-1

11/27/10 7:00am

Happy holidays to you.

Merely Me, Health Guide

11/27/10 9:30am

Hi Donna

This seems to be an on-going theme and challenge in your life. I think you do want to help people but not at the expense of yourself. You want to be liked and thought of as a good person and you want to feel this about yourself...so you seem afraid to upset the apple cart by saying no to requests. Being assertive is hard. Tremendously hard. Some people won't like it. Most people are not going to say, "way to go! Thank you for being so darn assertive with me." but...you gotta do it anyway for your own self preservation.

How about this as an exercise...to do if it helps.

Finish these phrases.

I worry that if I am assertive that people will........

If people get mad or don't like me because I am assertive...then....(how will you feel? what will happen next?)

You have already gotten into some of this...I think it would do you good to explore it more. What are your greatest fears about saying no and where do these thoughts come from?

Pure logic says that you are not a bad person, you are not any less worthy, people will still like you, etc....even when you are assertive. But I think you need to test out the theory to make sure that this is so. I would recommend trying it in the safest of conditions...with a friend or relative who is going to be cool about you being assertive. Once you have experienced success...then work your way up to someone who may give you some not great feedback.

Know your rights as an independent human being. You are entitled to say no to requests. You call the shots about your own life.

Something my therapist told me years and years ago: "Sometimes it is better to be respected than liked." Such a hard philosophy to embrace.

When someone makes a request you can ask yourself these questions:

1. Is this something I genuinely want to do?

2. Is there some aspect of the request that I am willing to do?

3. What are the stakes? meaning...is this request something small and easily turned down or is it something which could really make a difference if you choose to say yes? Would it be meaningful for you...to comply with the request?

Another thing you can do is to stall for time to think about it...you don't need to say yes or no right away...you can say..."I need time to think on this."

You can always control the conditions too as in..."I can't do this right now but I would be happy to...another day." Or..."I can't do all this but I can do this part of it."

Just some ideas...

I still struggle with the assertiveness thing. It seems ingrained in us to always say yes to everything and then we end up overloaded and resentful. Remember...you don't have to be a doormat to be liked.

Hope things go okay...let us know what happens.

Donna-1

11/27/10 12:32pm

I really appreciate your well-thought-out comments, MM. It HAS been something that I've always struggled with. But I have gotten much better at being assertive the last 15 yrs (since being diagnosed with depression and schizophrenia.) Because I learned that in order to get well/recover/feel good about myself again I needed a lot of space and personal time. I had to demand it at the expense of a lot of other things. The first thing I learned was to stay as far away as possible from toxic people/relationships. That will "do me in" faster than anything. The next thing I learned is I DO have rights. Now I need to convince myself that one of those rights is to say "no" when it needs to be said.

Judy

11/28/10 11:25pm

Donna, I have the same problem with being unable to say "No." It feels like saying it will always sound mean, but when I think about times I've heard other people say it, they have a way of putting it that makes it feel like yeah, they'd like to accommodate but just aren't able to right now. I think we feel that setting boundaries is selfish and that if we do it, we have to explain our reasons. But really, we don't owe anyone an explanation for our choices - we don't have to justify setting boundaries. I know it's really hard with family members. I've done it a couple of times and I think it made people stop for a minute and catch their breath, but I think if done enough times, they start getting used to the possibility that they may not get every request granted!

You don't have to give and give and then NOT give to yourself. I'll bet that in time, it will get easier the more you value yourself. You ARE a good person, Donna, and you don't have to keep proving it!

Marishka

11/29/10 11:30am

Hi Donna,

I think the best answers come from when we are calm and centered. For me, I have been chronically stressed for about ten years so getting centered has been a real challenge but I cannot live without it.

It is getting better. One day at a time.

However I do believe when we get very quiet, we begin to hear that quiet voice telling us what is best for us. Hard part these days seems to be to find quiet. Nature is best place for me.

I think the more we quiet the mind and become still, the clearer we become about what we need to do for ourselves, what boundaries to set, what to accept, what to give.

Running is a huge form of meditation for me. Does it clear you mind?

Or doing something fun, getting the mind away from the dilemmas, right.

Then, clear answers pop in it seems.

Things can have many alternatives right, not black and white. Solutions can be a balance, grey, help some, don't help some. Take a step away. Go have some fun. Come back to it.

Marishka

Donna-1

11/29/10 6:46pm

Good thoughts -- thank you. I have always been the caregiver, peacemaker, and mediator in my family. So when it comes to saying "no" people do a double-take. But I'm getting better. Yes, nature helps. Running used to help but I am too obese now to run, but I do enjoy walking at a brisk pace. I hope to run again some day. For 20 yrs I ran 5 miles a day. It was like heaven.

what's going on...anxiety-related depression?

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