Maybe your not letting them down gently. I don't ever find myself having to tell people how I feel alot? Cause they mostly don't treat me bad at anytimes that much? Maybe your giving them mixed signals? I think that maybe your just feeling guilty about it, BUT, I do think you could have let the guy down more gently, CAUSE it's real hard for them to ask someone out in the first place. I don't mean lead them on or anything but a little white lie would have been more sufficient. CAUSE at no time do you have the right to be mean & ugly to anyone. But, it doesn't sound like that's the case here. I don't know maybe we need more info on the matter. BUT, I hardly ever have to tell it like it is, most people know your boundaries. HOPE THINGS work out for you anyways? But, have you ever considered one on one counseling. I go to counseling for the past 2 yrs and it's has helped me alot with all the questions I have about life in general. I never had people listen to me and tell what I could have done better, or not could have done in my life. It's helped me immesely. I don't think I could have stayed clean & sober for long without it. CAUSE I had to learn to live life without using. I didn't know how to deal with real live living & emotions. I used ANGER for all the things in my life. Now I am a changed person. IT's worth a try for you, (it's only a suggestion) It worked for me.

Hi, Donna.  I'm a lot like you, in terms of feeling guilty if I have to say "No" to a person, especially family.  Maybe the trick is trying to set a boundary in a way that's respectful of the other person's feelings and if you're feeling irritated and angry at people in general, it might be hard to put yourself in their shoes.  Maybe this guy really did only want to have pancakes, I don't know.  And if you didn't want to go, that's your right.  But do you think it might be possible that you misread his intentions?  It sounds like you might have felt threatened by his casual invitation and could have come off sounding a little sharper than you intended.

I do think a lot of irritability can be a sign of depression.  When I was at my worst, I used to literally wish I could shoot people as they walked by, just because I didn't like something about them - like maybe they looked happy and I wondered why they should get to feel happy when I was so miserable.  I know when I get in that frame of mind that something isn't right.

Don't beat yourself up over it, though.  You could apologize if you feel it's necessary, but you're just trying to figure out why it happened and guilt just gets us stuck, I think.  Guilt does serve a purpose, but I've also learned that sometimes persistent guilt is actually shame.  For myself, sometimes I've realized that I've felt shame about ever needing anything from anyone and that's from long ago.  I do have a difficult time with boundaries and I think when we're learning how to set some, we can swing in the opposite direction until we can find the happy medium.

I know you've said earlier that you're still trying to get your medications figured out, so be kind to yourself and realize that you're doing the best you can.

Donna-1

3/ 4/11 6:07am

Actually, to my embarrassment (again), I did turn him down more kindly than I let on.  In fact, I took the whole burden of the situation onto myself and told him I have trust issues and am a little hesitant to even go out to talk because of that, that it was NOT HIM, it was ME.  Trying to let him down gently.  Then he said, "OH MY APOLOGIES that I EVEN ASKED YOU OUT."  Sarcasm.  I don't need that.  Of course there is almost always more behind the scenes than is first apparent.  He is a very depressed person himself, convinced that life is going to continue to deal him a bad hand and that things will never go his way.  So he was prepared to "fail" whatever my response was.  After dealing with depression myself for so many years, I don't need to find more depressed friends (I already have some.)  It's time for me to move on with life and see the bright side of things.

Hypno

3/ 4/11 7:14am

Are you not being totally honest to him or to yourself...or with us?

 

The answer doesn't matter...the point is your thoughts are playing defensive games...that is the gaming you were referring to in the dating game...

 

I would urge you to reread your posting and your responses to the comments and consider this...how can you give permission to yourself to be totally open and honest with yourself?

 

Hypno

Judy

3/ 4/11 10:09am

Donna, knowing that you were actually gentler on him than you first said, I'd definitely say you don't need to feel guilty - you didn't MAKE him feel that way, it's the way he reacted to what you said.  He's the one who misinterpreted what you said as a total rejection.  And, like you mentioned, if he's got his own depression issues, it's probably not the best idea to get involved with him when you're still working on your own.

 

I do know what you mean about feeling responsible for hurting people's feelings and it's most likely conditioning from either childhood or an abusive relationship.  I think it just takes a lot of work and practice.  Have you thought about seeing a therapist again?  It might make it a little easier.  I know some people think you should be able to do it all on your own, but we don't always have to do it the hardest way.  We're just giving our ideas and opinions here based on our own experiences - they may not be right for you.

Donna-1

3/ 4/11 2:24pm

Thank you Judy; as always, you have a deft and clear way of expressing yourself and are always kind, always generous in your responses.  I think there are periods in every person's life when starting new relationships is hard, and there are all kinds of reasons why.  As many reasons as there are people.  Yes, therapy sounds good, but as Hypno suggested maybe I am not ready to be honest with myself.  I am scared to death of dating.

Hypno

3/ 5/11 11:30am

Well done...first step to recovery... If you want to you could now try the following...explore...very gently...take care of yourself in the process...what sort of relationship you would be completely comfortable with at the moment...and how that compares with one that you would be afraid of entering into...do the comparison in two columns with each row considering a different aspect of the relationship.

 

Then write down the % confidence in the relationship you place on each aspect of the relationship.

 

You could then compare this with an existing relationship you have and identify what would need to change to improve the relationship and consider how that might be acheiveable.

 

All the best

 

Hypno

Hi Donna-1,

You have in this comment started a wonderful piece of self analysis...all you need to do now is continue it.

I'm going to talk bluntly in this posting and your job is to work out how I might have said it better and repost that back to the site.

Well you've certainly decided to keep up the pattern of behaviour...because as you say in your first sentence..."This seems to be an ongoing theme with me.  Trying to figure out what I did wrong when someone else gets their feelings hurt, or when someone else bugs the hell out of me and I let them know it." (Ask yourself...HOW DID THEY GET THEIR FEELINGS HURT...you have slipped into passive mode on the cause of the hurt in others.... but you clearly say you have been hurt by what others are saying because it has bugged you...so... is it that you are the one hurting...not them?)

You then give yourself permission to enter the world of blame and shame and an escape route..." It can't always be wrong to say what you think...but I end up feeling that way." Trust your feelings ...if you're feelings say you could have done something in a different way ..a more healthier way...they are probably right...thoughts...when we are being defensive... will often make excuses for us...If I read your statement again I think it might be something like ... Can I give myself forgiveness on these occaisions for hurting someone else's feelings if I try and learn what went on and improve my communication in the future?Perhaps you can even apologise and take friendships forward in a more relaxed manner.

" And if I don't say what I really think, then I feel guilty about that. "....Do you? ... is that because you still are not saying (to yourself and the other person) what the whole truth of the matter is?

Here comes the blunt bit.....

This is you lying to yourself....you didn't tell him what you were thinking...you lied to him...you said the reason you didn't want to go out with him for pancakes and coffee was because you had too many other things going on...that is not the reason you gave in this explanation.

You say.."I would say I don't feel guilt about much (I mean about "sin.")  Except when I speak up.  I almost always feel guilt about that.  Why?"......" that I really thought it was right to say at the time."...This most probably is because you are not being true to yourself when you speak up...because although you think you are saying what you think, you are not being open and honest with yourself and the other person.

"I think this has led to a lot of my depression -- wishing I hadn't said something"...yep..it would and it will if you continue to behave in the way that you have done in the past. Next time I would suggest that you examine why you reacted to him saying he wanted to take you out only for pancakes and coffee the way that you did..

Sometimes we project out from oursleves the very things we are frightened of within ourselves. For example: You  say that when you told him what you did...he didn't take the rejection very well.

Perhaps you were fearing rejection yourself and just decided to push it out on him. Reject him first then he can't reject you.Or did he reject you already? After all he only wanted to go out with you for pancakes and coffee!He didn't ask for anymore out of the relationship other than friendship.You seem to have thought he did want more..or did you wish that he had wanted more?

 " Now, I feel depressed that I somehow hurt his feelings, that I am helping him dig a deeper hole for his self-image to slide into.  Why?  Maybe it says something about my own self-image?" Ah!...the light bulb moment...flick the switch...yes it does say more about your own self-image! Great...something you can work on for the future.

AND AS FOR THE FEELING DEPRESSED ...THAT IS THE POINT OF DEPRESSION...IT IS SO YOU CAN LEARN HOW TO DEAL WITH SOMETHING NEW...SOMETHING THAT WILL ENABLE YOU TO NEGOTIATE LIFE IN A HEALTHIER WAY IN THE FUTURE..SO good to feel low when you've hurt someone elses feelings...that means you are not a sociopath...but you need to show more empathy with yourself before making statements based on what you have assumed the other person to be saying, wanting and feeling and concentrate your efforts on what you want to convey to the other person about yourself....honestly and openly...about your feelings as well as your thoughts!

I may of course have got all of this wrong as I'm making assumptions without checking them out with you first!!!!

Take a deep breath, brush yourself off, and work out how you are going to apologise whilst being open and honest with yourself.

Allow more calmness, love and acceptance and less fighting, blame and shame in your life.

Good Luck

Hypno

Donna-1

3/ 4/11 2:28pm

You are very fortunate if you don't have significant relationship problems -- everyone I can think of does, from my pastor on down to my sister and the lady next door.  But, since I am not immune apparently,  like you said maybe I need to work on myself a little more and not just take offense when others are offended.  I do try to be nice and respectful of others but tend to leave my druthers out in the cold.

Hypno

3/ 5/11 11:20am

It is not always a matter of luck to have good relationships...it is a matter of practising good relationships.

 

I'm not sure what your wishes are...are they to improve on your ability to communicate effectively and maintain good relationships...or to wait for luck to bring that about?...I've always found that the latter doesn't work as well as the former.

 

Druthers....there's the choice to gain greater insight into yourself, so that you can understand your relationship with others better....or there's the choice to repeat the patterns of the past waiting to meet someone who will not let you know if you upset them...I know which one I'd rather choose.

 

Hypno

Donna-1

3/ 5/11 6:11pm

I am tired of being nice all the time.  I guess if that's what it takes to have good relationships, then I'm not going to succeed.  I have spent a lifetime trying to do what others wanted and what would get their approval, only to end up feeling like I have betrayed myself.  I do think we have a certain amount of responsibility for how we treat others, but we also have a responsibility for how we let ourselves be treated.  And too often, I have stepped aside and let others walk on me.  I'm trying to correct that now.

Hypno

3/ 5/11 8:41pm

I'm glad you are trying to correct that now...you should not have to agree to everything someone else wants nor should they have to agree to do everything you want. We are all individuals each with our own boundaries and right to be respected.

 

One of the strange things I found (when I was living a less than healthy life) was that if I lived my life to please others (in the hope that they paid attention to me) I found that the moment I needed something from the relationship they would vanish (not suprising when I realised my pattern of behaviour was only to invite people in my life when they needed help)...leaving me feeling rejected and abandoned...so I started pushing people away before they could push me away...and then it became a self-fulfilling possibility - no-one wants me unless I help them/please them...then one day a very wise person told me something interesting...if you live your life true to yourself/your feelings...and you respect your own and others' boundaries...and expect the same from others if they want to continue to share some of your time...and if you help someone without expecting any help or attention in return...no quid pro quo stuff...then you will find that you do not feel guilty when you want to do something different to the other person...you will not need to try and make excuses for why you don't want to do something..you can just say "no thanks I'd rather not" (your druthers)and when they say why not? ...you can say "because I don't want to it doesn't feel right for me". As long as you just stick to not justifying your decision but keep delivering your decision that you don't want to then you should be fine...as soon as you attempt to try and justify it...you are in danger of losing ground...why?...because you can hardly ever win an argument on logic...why?...because there is always an argument for and against a logical point...so the excuses just escalate!!!

 

Hope this is helpful in some way.

 

With the kindest of regards and the greatest of respect.

 

Hypno

Hypno

3/ 6/11 4:00pm

my posting skirted around the issue of altered thinking...which is typical of depressive anxiety symptoms...but don't worry ...you can overcome them as did I...I assure you!

 

Let me know how you are getting on...or what difficulties you are facing...

 

Regards

 

Hypno