need some advice

By what do I do next? Thursday, January 28, 2010

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I have a soon to be 18 yr old daughter who has been depressed since the sudden death of her father 7 yrs ago. She was 13 at the time it happened, we were on vacation and she and my son were snorkling with him when he suffered a massive heart attack. It was pretty awful. She was very close with him and he was a wonderful father and husband. He left a very big void in our lives. She has not moved on. has been in and out of the hospital and been on all types of medication. She was cutting herself, but hasn't since August 2009. We also did Trans cranial magnetic stimulation for six weeks ending in November also of 2009. She goes to a theraputic school but has not gotten any better, maybe worse. She hates her therapist, yet they refuse to let her switch to another one. I would love to have her back at home but I have to work full time and can't be around to keep her occupied 24/7. She is on Lithium, Geodon, and Zoloft. Nothing seems to help, especially around hoidays, anniversary of his death and his birthday. I don't know what to do for her anymore. I can hardly stand to see her suffer anymore. Any advice? Suggestions?

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Merely Me, Health Guide

1/28/10 8:59pm

I was told that you would be posting...thank you for creating this sharepost.

Well first of all my heart goes out to you. I cannot begin to imagine your loss and then to witness your daughter stuck in her grief...I am wondering how you are holding up?

May I ask...did your daughter suffer from any sort of depression before her father died? What was she like before this tragic event? How has your son dealt with it?

It is my personal opinion that children who lose a parent...it can be one of the hardest types of grief because children are not as equipped to handle it emotionally. They might not understand. I lost my father when I was four and I am 45 now and I still don't understand it. And then you add on the way that he died...I am wondering if your daughter feels any guilt...just by being in proximity to being there when he died. Children quite often...they take on guilt because they don't understand and it is a way to...have some control.

Can you say where...in the grief process...is she stuck? Does she talk about it...re-live it? How does she talk about his death?

Please know that I am not a therapist...just someone who has coped with grief myself and watched my mother try to cope.

I do think a good therapist is essential and one who does specialize in grief work.

On Monday...I will post an interview with Kay Jamison about grief...I am not sure it will help in your specific instance but maybe something said will give comfort.

What do you see as options at this point?

Thank you so much for sharing here. Let us know more about what is going on if you can.

what do I do next?

1/28/10 10:26pm

I brought her to a grief therapy group for children and they said that she would have to process everything before they could let her participate. They thought she wasn't ready and that it would be too traumatic. She has a very difficult time discussing the whole event. Like I said, she worsens around the anniversary of his death and holidays and his birthday. She was in the hospital the week before Thanksgiving and the week after Christmas. I don't even tell anyone anymore. She hasn't cut herself since August. I think maybe the transcranial magnetic stimulation did some good in that area. I think her therapist stinks. The theraputic HS that she is in won't let you switch. Her grades are in the toilet. She was a good student before all this. One teacher said she was gifted. I miss my daughter. It's been too long. She'll be home this weekend and I will be spending it trying to keep her occupied and her mind out of the gutter. her brothers also suffered in their own way, but they are moving on and are living their lives. I don't know what to do next, but I have a feeling the answer will present itself, whether I like it or not.

Judy

1/28/10 9:34pm

I am so sorry that this happened to your family, especially on a vacation, which should have been a fun experience. Like Merely Me said, working with a therapist who has a lot of experience in grief work would be good. There is also the possibility that your daughter is suffering from PTSD because of the circumstances of your husband's death. There is a therapy called EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) which is specifically suited for PTSD - I have done it myself many times. It's hard to describe, but you can Google on it and find out more. There are people who are specially trained in doing this work; they work with a lot of war veterans and people who have experienced major traumas such as fatal car crashes, bridge collapses, etc. If you are interested and don't have any luck locating someone, let me know and I can find out more for you, depending on where you live. This stuff takes time to work through. She shouldn't have to work with people she doesn't like, as it's difficult to make much progress that way. I don't know what the circumstances of her treatment are, but I would be very assertive about wanting a change if that's the case.

I wish you all the best, I'm sure this is difficult for everyone - you suffered the loss of your husband and now have to watch your daughter suffer. And you have to take care of yourself. Please let us know if we can be of further help, or if you just want to get things off your chest. We're here to listen.

what do I do next?

1/28/10 10:13pm

We did try to do the EMDR, but after a while she became very resistant. I'm open to anything. Like I said, we did the transcranial magnetic stimulation also. Right now, the HS that she is in, which is a therputic school for girls with emotional problems will not change her therapist. I took her out for a week, but they called CPS on me and so I had to bring her back. Now they want to send her away to another residential HS. I am not crazy about this idea. I'd rather have her at home, but I have to work full time. I don't know what the answer is. February vacation is coming up, and I really can't afford to go anywhere, but I may have to. It's better than having her spend a week in the hospital. She'll be 18 next week, I may just try to do something on my own.

Judy

1/28/10 11:15pm

I think you should do whatever you feel in your heart is the best thing for your daughter. I'm sorry the EMDR didn't work out, maybe the timing wasn't right. Do you think her being away from you could be making things worse? I understand you have to work - is the HS quite a distance from you? At least you have a safe place for her to be. My older son was depressed and suicidal at 18, attempted it twice, so I understand how hard it is to know what to do sometimes. I hope you're able to find the right help and if you want to, let us know how things are going for you and your daughter.

Donna-1

1/30/10 2:18pm

I know you miss your daughter. It is bad enough to miss your husband -- but he is no longer here. Your daughter is here -- but she will not communicate with you. So it is like missing 2 people that you loved.

I imagine her depression began with the anxiety and loss associated iwth her father's death. But it seems to me that it has morphed into something else -- every thing that goes wrong, she just piles it on top of that old hurt and carrying all of that is too much. A therapist to whom she cannot unload all her problems is worse than no therapist at all, because it just adds more frustration. And your daughter may feel that if a professional is not able to listen and help, then things are hopeless.

I almost hesitate to suggest this, but have her doctors tried ECT (electroconvulsive therapy)? It really helps a lot of people who have intractable depression. I have had a number of treatments and what it seemed to do for me was to break that link with hurtful memories long enough for me to have a "mental rest" for a while. And once that break is made, it becomes easier to process from a distance rather than feeling yourself still at the heart of the matter.

what do I do next?

1/30/10 4:49pm

Thanks so much, I really appreciate your input. We did the transcranial magnetic stimulation which is supposed to be less invasive than ECT. I've mentioned ECT to her and she doesn't want to do it. I thought we had some success with TMS, but we had some complications. I had taken her out of the school and had a plan of having her tutored, a new pysch. dr and a new therapist, but then the school called CPS on me. Plus, this is awful, while she was home she went out with some friends and got date raped. I had no idea at the time, she just begged me to take her back to school. So, I did. Eventually the truth came out, but not until after she carried it around with her to the point where she had to be hospitalized for a week. I know she needs a different therapist, I've been complaining to the school for a while, but they won't do anything. That's why I took her out. I know I have to do something, I'm just not sure what.

Donna-1

1/30/10 7:26pm

Why is CPS involved? I know this is personal, but it seems to be hindering her getting well. You seem completely in touch and up to date on her treatment, and a very concerned and loving mother. There must be some way to convince CPS that you have her best interests at heart. Tell them she was raped while away at the school where CPS wanted her, not where you wanted her. Tell them anything you can to get her back under your control...if at all possible. At this age, it is easy to become hopeless. I got out my father's loaded midnight special on day while at home alone and held it in my mouth a long time, hoping they would come home and save me just in time. Well, they were delayed and I decided not to kill myself, but my depression went untreated for years and I finally did attempt suicide 3 times in my late 30's. Don't let it go that far.

Read up on ECT. The new "version" is much safer than the old. General anesthesia is used so that the patient knows nothing of what is happening. And generally the ECT is now applied to only one side of the forehead, not both. And only for a very short time. The more you know about it, the more likely you are to be able to talk your daughter and CPS/school/doctor into trying it. At least 12 sessions are usually given initially to see if the person is going to respond. And if they do respond, then there may be weekly or monthly "boosters" for a while. It does cause some short term memory loss, and some say it has affected their long term memory. But all psychiatrists have assured me is a very safe and very often affective treatment. You might get your daughter's doctor to explain the procedure with both of you in his or her ofice, and let him talk her into it if she won't listen to you. I think it would be worth looking into.

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