Sunday, February 12, 2012

Freestyle Navigator CGM vs. Minimed CGM

Last week I got an email from my CDE:   "I was wondering if you might be coming to the program at Health Trax on 2/26 (Note: Health Trax is a gym).  If you are, I wanted to ask you to be a guinea pig for me & wear a Freestyle Navigator while walking on treadmill & exercising durin...
3/ 2/09 6:43pm

I'm using the Minimed, and I love it.  I find mine is fairly accurate right from the start, and through the first 6 days.  I usually try to eek a 7th day out of it, but it normally dies some time during the 7th day.

 

That said, it does sound like the Navigator has some better features than the Minimed has.  How about the reciever?  How big is it?  I do like that the Minimed sends the  results right to my pump so I don't need a separate reciever like I would with the Navigator or the Dex. 

 

 

3/ 2/09 11:37pm

the receiver is about the same size as a minimed pump and it has a built in blood machine which i really like.

3/ 3/09 10:49am

Wow - the blood machine built in is a big plus!!  Makes it a perfect trade off, since you no longer have to carry around the blood machine.  This all certainly gives me something to ponder.  :)

3/ 5/09 9:49am

Gina,

I'm glad your insurance paid for the meter, but I'm wondering why your readings are so high? I rarely go over 100, and when I do it's under 110. I'd have a fit if I had a 124 reading.

Hugs,

Gracie

3/ 5/09 11:23am

Gracie,

 

Thanks for you comment. So what you are telling me is that you NEVER go high? Over my 8 year experience with diabetes I have never had a day where my blood sugars have been in perfect control all day. There is always some sort of spike after eating or from exercise, or from stress.

 

I have fits myself trust me, I have written about it numerous times on this blog and on my personal blog as well.  I dont want to have a high reading and I am doing everything I can to get my blood sugars in range but sometimes life or not bolusing correctly for a meal. Highs happen. that is just part of diabetes.

 

I am curious how long you have had diabetes?

3/ 5/09 11:37am

Gina,

I have had diabetes for over 5 years now.  I test fasting & 2 hours after lunch & dinner. I exercise for an hour one hour after dinner. My highs are usually 105-108 range. I've been in the one teens once this year. ( was eating out & think they slipped something in the sauce). I take no medication, totally controlled by diet & exercise.

Hugs,

G

 

3/ 5/09 3:40pm

Gracie,

 

Oh, Ok that explains it!

 

I have type 1 diabetes and I am insulin dependent. You just control it with diet and exercising which is more pre-diabetes.  And your body most likely is still making insulin where my pancreas makes none. There is a huge difference between you and me in regards to diabetes.

 

It takes a while for insulin to kick in sometimes for fatty foods or food higher in carbs which also  causes the spike. Sometimes you cant get it down for a couple of hours like chinese food and pizza. Those are killer carbs. I do stay away from them but I do like to eat it on occasion I am just giving you examples.

 

gina

3/ 5/09 3:47pm

gina,

Yes there is a huge difference between Type 1 & 2 ( & now they're saying there is a Type 1.5). No it wasn't pre diabetes, my A1c was a not so perfect 10 & I was routinely in the 220's. But I've worked very very hard to get it under control. I'm very glad you now have the CGM, I'm sure that helps you a lot. Are they going to let you keep the one you tested? It sounds like a better deal for you. May you have success on your journey!

Hugs,

G

PS I make a pizza crust with eggs & cheesed that tastes a lot like the real deal. Found it on About.com/Low-Carb Diets 

3/ 5/09 2:57pm

I've been using the Navigator since July-2008.  It is a wonderful product, accurate and easy to use.

 

The sensor (transmitter) is not a big deal.

 

It has helped me a great deal as I'm a Professional Home Inspector and during my work my BG can drop like a rock when inspecting attic spaces in Texas in the summer!!  Temps near 120 to 160 degrees.  That heat & humidity are tough to deal with.

 

The Navigator is a fantastic source of help.

 

The "close to real-time" readings are also a great reinforcement of seeing just what the heck happens to you BG when you eat most anything.

 

I've been a Type-1 since 1967, been wearing pumps for 15+ years ... will be 59 this year and (so far) no debilitating side effects ... short of my wife concurring with me that I'm quite stubborn.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Nolan K.

Plano, TX

www.NolansInspections.com

Anonymous
Ronald Downs
3/ 5/09 3:03pm

Please consider doing the same experiment with the Dexcom.  The  big plus  for it is the seven day sensor and  I am  gravitating towords it.  I would like to get your feedback as you did with the Minimed and Navigator.  Thanks

3/ 5/09 3:32pm

I will totally try to get a Dexcom put on! Oh how cool would it be to wear all three at the same time!

 

On second thought maybe that wouldn't be so cool. All three beeping simutaneously may put me in the coo coo house haha I would try it though Laughing

Anonymous
Hayley
3/ 9/09 11:20pm

Hi Gina - where do you live? I wear Dexcom and have done the Dexcom/Minimed simultaneous trial and Dexcom wins hands down. I might be able to swing a trial for you with the Dexcom if there is rep in your area.

 

If you DO use it for a trial, you can email me if you have any questions about troubleshooting. As with any device company, technical support is limited in what they tell you by FDA regulations and there are a bunch of great tips you could use that the Dexcom people can't give you!

3/ 5/09 3:21pm
My last two A1Cs were 6.3. My endo correctly points out that 6.3 is too low for me. She has set up an appointment for me to try the MM CGMS. I am ready to give it a try. Thanks for your post.
3/ 5/09 3:34pm

Jimmie I am so happy that my post was useful to you.

 

Although I dont know why your endo thinks an a1c of 6.3 is too low? I am wondering the reasoning behind that. I have been trying to hit 6.5 - 6.3 range for a long time.

 

How do you do it!

3/ 7/09 12:14pm

Like Gina commented I don't understand why your endo's got a problem with a 6.3 A1C, unless you're blood sugars are "cycling" but trending on low side...in other words ranging from low BS (40-60 mg/dl range) back to normal / low normal BS. If that's the case, using a CGM might help you flatten out your blood sugars at a "comfortable level", e.g. 90-110 mg/dl range (so the BS  bottom doesn't fall out), and help reduce your lows. CGM has helped tremendously for me Smile (MM 522 /w RTMS) in that regard.

 

My last 2 A1Cs were 6.0-6.1 range...which is actually higher than the 5.6-5.7 A1C range I used to have (for a long time) until my endo got mad at me for making myself vulnerable to lows.

3/ 7/09 5:45pm
I tend to pass out when I am really low. Last weekend I passed out on Saturday and Sunday. I fell on Sunday and have three bruises on my left isde. I might have broken or hurt a rib as it still hurts when I laugh or cough. I do realy like my endo. I will give the CGMS a try. I asm going in Tuesday for a training session. I do have a different basal rate for days when I do not use the treadmill. Treadmill days will have me setting a lower basal for 3 hours. I haven't done the treadmill since last Sunday. One thing about living alone is that I do not tell anybody about this. Well, any local people. Maybe it's good that I talk about it here.
3/ 8/09 8:40am

Do you bolus to cover meals just before or in the 2-3 hour active insulin from bolus period before excercising? If so that (in addition to your possible need for some basal rate tweaking before/after working out) may be resulting in some of your lows. Excercise can magnify low blood sugar impact of boluses.

 

My workouts (treadmill type) are generally in the morning (30-60 mins after waking up from sleep). Before working out I have a relatively low carb breakfast: 2 egg omlet (maybe some cheese on it) and V8 juice, and start my workout when my glucose reaches 130-150 mg/dl range (using my CGM to monitor this) in order "to keep the bottom" following out on me. My CGM glucose usually trends up in the 1st 30 mins after starting the workout, but then gradually/gracefully trends lower towards the end (my total cardo workout time is 40-45 mins). My glucose (tested by blood) is usually in the 80s range after working out (better than 40s!!!). Usually post-workout my CGM glucose will start trending up - so most of the time I need to (after verifying with a blood sugar) cover this post-workout-rise with 1 unit of insulin in the 60 minute period after working out.

 

Good luck!

3/ 8/09 9:05am
So glad to hear from a treadmill user. I try to eat the same breakfast every day: about 72 carbs. I do the treadmill not long after breakfast. I do 30 minutes at 3.5 mph. Now that I have not been on the treadmill since last Sunday I can see that the treadmill is the problem. I do have a different basal rate that I have been using all week and the results are good. So "tweaking" the basal shoud work. thanks for your advice!
3/ 8/09 5:29pm

Jimmie,

 

I use the treadmill also. I don't do mornings though I am a night person. I usually Tread after dinner I cut my basal in half at dinner and then I turn my basal to 50% an hour before working then during I put temp basal of 0% and as soon as I am done working out i put it back to 50% for another hour. That usually keeps me from bottoming out.

 

 

3/ 8/09 6:31pm

One point to emphasize regarding my approach is that I don't bolus or eat high carb meals before excercising. In other words I eat a low carb + protein meal (breakfast in my case), stretch after (10-15 mins) then start my cardio workout (treadmill, but also have an excercise bike and elliptical machine). I've found that bolusing to cover meal carbs before working out NOT to be a good thing. Obviously with any of these approaches, and mine may be considered unorthodox by some, YMMV. Take care! Steve

Anonymous
karend1
3/ 6/09 10:32pm

Hi Gina,

 

Great post, thanks for taking the time to compare the two CGM's.

 

I used the MM for a few months and I was not a fan.  The catch up time to give me accurate readings drove me nuts and I found it to be very painful to wear.

 

My first insurance denied the CGM and I won an appeal then my company changed insurance companies and  denied coverage, I appealed and lost and just gave up since I was not a fan.

 

I felt like I was always testing my bgs to see if the MM CGM was accurate, it drove me nuts and the lag time made me over treat my lows, but...... you sure made me want to try the Navigator.

 

 

Anonymous
reg1nurse
5/25/09 7:25am

I have the minimed cgms along with the minimed pump 522. I have had the cgms for two months now. With my experience I can say that it is not very accurate and hasn't caught one low bs in two months. I by myself, however, have caught several. The transmitter is very small. The size of a quarter. It is a help to me but I think that the mental satisfaction of knowing it is monitoring is the big benefit. It gives a reading every 5 minutes that is actually an average of your bs readings for those five minutes.

 

Can you tell me if the Navigator gives actual minute-by-minute readings or averages? Also what pump are you using now and are you happy with it? Thank you for posting this comparison. Information for us Type 1 peeps is few and far between. Especially with pumps and cgms. If I can help you with any information please don't hesitate to ask.

 

Anonymous
Dee
3/14/10 7:41pm

Hello, Gina,

Thanks for your report regarding navigator vs mini med's CGM.  My son has type 1,  and hypoglycemia unawareness.  I have just had it with the minimed CGM.  The transmitter fails within 6 to 12 months,  costs 689.00,  and has only a 6 month warranty. Mini med's system,  especially when the transmitter is starting to fail,  does not give any indication of low blood sugar,  gives no alarms,  and the readings can read 40 to 50 points higher than the actual BG level.  Mini med's system has  been most unhelpful lately for my son.  He's had 2 ambulances in the last week.  I came home from work two nights ago and my house was filled with black smoke.  I found him in severe insulin seizure laying on the floor on his back.   The food he was cooking had been burning on the stove for over two hours.  I  rolled him onto his side,  made sure his airway was clear, gave him the glucagon injection, and called 911. In the meantime,  we have been waiting to jump through the hoops for insurance approval of the replacement transmitter,  because it is a couple months past the six month warranty.  Even when the mini med transmitter is new,  the BG readings are never  really accurate,  and read higher than the actual BG.  I told my son I am not going to continue to have him go through this torture every 6 to 9 months when the mini med medtronic transmitter starts to fail.  This is dangerous,  costly financially,  and could cost him his life.  After reading your article,  we are going to order the Navigator.   He also has fought the problem of heavy bleeding upon insertion of the mini med sensor,  and has had numerous sensors immediately ruined from this.  The  lack of bleeding problems,  and the greater accuracy and louder alarm are the main selling points for the Navigator.  The mini med alarm is so quiet,  it is just useless to wake up someone who has a blood sugar drop.  I have spoken with Mini med about the alarm that is too quiet,  and they told me that this feature is to "save on battery life,  because the louder alarm uses up the battery more quickly".   I told mini med that I did not purchase a continuous glucose monitor in order to "save battery life",  but rather purchased it to save my son's life.I also found out the Navigator, and it's transmitter both carry a one year warranty,  rather than a 6 month warranty like mini med offers.

Thank you for your review and comparison.  We are ordering the Navigator.

3/14/10 8:18pm

Dee,

First I'm so sorry to hear about your son's situation, that is unacceptable!

 

You should look at Dexcom too!  I've heard that Navigator is good, but has not had the sales behind the product, which could mean they might fall behind in technology.  

 

Dexcom is the leader in the industry and will be making the sensors for the first generation artificial pancreas(APP).  This important to note, because in order to bring the APP to life, it needs to have redundant sensors.  Animas and Dexcom are working together to develop the APP, which should be a whistle to all of us that they are investing heavily in their respective technologies!  http://www.dexcom.com/

 

My CDE who wears a navigator just advised me to buy look into Dexcom.  Thought I would give you my two cents!  

 

Good luck and keep us posted!

4/22/10 12:26am

I have the Navigator and love it - have also used the mini-med.  I am concerned about the Navigator because I can't seem to get a replacement it has a crack but is still working great.  They have offered me $2000 to change to another brand because they don't know when they will have a replacement.