New Approaches to Type 2 and New Devices for Obesity

By Gretchen Becker, Health Guide Tuesday, December 07, 2010
Normal 0 We'd all like to see a cure for type 2 diabetes on the horizen, but so far, it's not in the works. All we can hope for at the moment is improved gizmos and gadgets that might make our lives a little easier but won't cure the underlying problem, or new approaches to treating patients tha...
12/ 7/10 3:50pm

Hey, I'm all for more sensors. The more I know the better control I can have!

 

The weight thing worries me, however. I just threw this thing at Taubes on his site. This is where those of higher weights do better than thin ones. http://ketosisprone.blogspot.com/2010/06/increased-weight-and-insulin-resistance.html

It brings up the question of whether weight loss is always a good thing. You could actually make the situation worse by weight loss. It is also known that overweight Black people tend to healthier than normal weight Black people.

 

PS Saw you got Ned's package. Can you tell what you're working on?

Gretchen Becker, Health Guide
12/ 7/10 4:46pm

ichael, There have been conflicting studies on weight. One study showed that overweight people did better than normal weight, thin, or obese people. Others have shown that overweight (or maybe obese; can't remember) people did better after surgery. But other studies have shown that overweight people do worse on various things.

 

Weight gain tends to be normal as we age, especially in older women, so maybe there's a reason. Fat does protect the bones when we fall. But it also increases insulin resistance, especially fat around the middle.

 

So, as with so many things, there are pluses and minuses to being overweight. My gut feeling is that not aiming to weigh the same as you weighed in college might be good, just a little overweight. However, my endo says all the very elderly people she sees in nursing homes are thin.

 

However, being morbidly obese is another matter. I think that's not a healthy state. The knees wear out from the stress of bearing so much weight. Other organs are stressed. And society hurls insults at obese people.

 

As you say, there are also racial differences in being overweight. Blacks are healthier than whites when they're overweight. I don't know about morbidly obese. Asian Indians have metabolic consequences from just a little weight gain.

 

Re the ketosis-prone people, it's seems odd. But note that they said the people who improved control gained weight, not that gaining weight improved control. When you're wildly out of control (as you have to be to spill ketones), you're spilling a lot of glucose into the urine, and when you regain control, you're not, so in essence, you're eating more calories.

 

Type 1s have often lost weight on diagnosis and start gaining it when they get treatment.

 

Re Ned's package, are you referring to his software beta testing? I signed up but can't use it because I have Excel 2000. How did you know I got it?

 

 

 

 

12/ 7/10 10:45pm

What they said is that there is a strong correlation between weight gain and better blood sugars with the converse having a strong correlation as well. It's still pretty wicked no matter how you view it.

 

Morbid obesity, I think of just like diabetes. It's something you get and certainly nothing you deserve. Anything that will help these people is probably good.

 

I read your comment on Ned's blog and assumed you were using the package too.

 

 

 

 

Gretchen Becker, Health Guide
12/ 8/10 9:51am

Correlation doesn't prove causation. For example, diabetes risk is high among Native Americans. Native Americans mostly have dark hair. Hence you could do a study and show that dark hair and diabetes were correlated.

 

But dark hair does not cause diabetes and diabetes does not cause dark hair. They just track together in some populations.

 

Am I missing something in that paper? I confess, I read it quickly. So much piled up on my desk demanding that I read it.

 

 

12/ 8/10 6:34pm

Yes, that's true, correlation is not causation. When I look at papers that show these strong correlations, I was refer back to where there is proved causation. In the case of diabetes, weight and insulin are causally related. How this relationship manifests itself in this research is the question.

 

This paper is long and detailed and this particular issue isn't even highlighted in it but it's there and it shows up in other papers on KPD, as well. This just in from Emily's blog. http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/

 

What, once again, caught my eye is this statement. "... The decline in brain cholesterol production happened in cases of insulin depletion OR hyperglycemia in various mouse models of diabetes type I and II, but not in obese (but normoglycemic) or insulin resistant (but normoglycemic, meaning high levels of circulating insulin were needed to keep the blood sugars normal) mice." ,and this, " ...Therefore diabetes produces a "global suppression of the enzymes of cholesterol synthesis and their master transcriptional regulator, SREB-2 in the brain... [which alters] neuronal and physiological function."  A lot of this action occurs in the hypothalamus, which is a major point of control of the endocrine system, appetite, and energy balance.  

This kind of dovetails in with this paper and it just kind of drives me crazy. Hey, I don't mean to hijack your blog with this.

 

Gretchen Becker, Health Guide
12/ 9/10 10:00am

Michael, there are so many factors involved in diabetes that it can be mind-boggling, and you're dealing with a less common form, with less research.

 

I just try to read as much as I can, from all points of view, and hope that eventually something will click.

 

One area I think has been neglected is the alpha cells and glucagon, which are too active in type 2. I don't know about ketosis-prone diabetes.

12/ 9/10 1:32pm

This is the reason I like to read you. You get a lot of things that no one seems to see. Alpha cells and glucagon are the things I've just started to look at. I'm coming to the idea that, at least, in sudden onset T2 it isn't about loss of beta cells but a sort of metabolic derangement caused by hyperglycemia. 

 

They've never concentrated on this aspect but I've read where they were able to challenge these functions and did get a response. In half of the KPD's, the c-peptide was low-normal even though the people were DKA. It just seems to me that all the parts of the system work but for some reason they aren't working together that there is some signaling which helps to control this system that's missing.

12/18/10 1:05pm

Hi, Gretchen,

The thing that disturbs me about the temporary solutions is that they seem to tie in to the idea that once a person loses weight, they will be able to maintain that weight loss. But that's patently untrue for most people, and makes the risk and money involved not worth it. And it's too much investment money going into these devices that could be used for research toward a cure for obesity, which I consider to be a disease!

 

On a personal note, I FINALLY decided to reduce carb intake (I fought it for a long time, as you surely remember!), and I've lost 18 lb. since October. Only

10 lb. to go for a BMI of 24.9 (first goal, to be modified later). Now to get more exercise, so that I'm losing fat, not muscle! I almost certainly won't get off insulin, but I'm hoping to see LDL cholesterol and triglycerides coming down.

 

Take care,

Natalie ._c-

Gretchen Becker, Health Guide
12/18/10 4:01pm

Hi Natalie. I think the thing about regaining lost weight is slightly different after weight-loss surgery when the surgery greatly reduces the size of the stomach. True, some people stretch out the small pouch and regain the weight. But others don't.

 

There are other problems after weight-loss surgery. It's not the answer for everyone. But for those who are really unhappy with their weight (think up to 1000 pounds) and simply can't lose any other way, the surgery can help. The idea is that once they've become accustomed to eating differently, they'll learn to make it a way of life.

 

 

Ask a Question

Get answers from our experts and community members.

Btn_ask_question_med
View all questions (3905) >
By Gretchen Becker, Health Guide— Last Modified: 07/11/12, First Published: 12/07/10