I have consulted my psychiatrist and neurologist, but they have not been very helpful. I really need to get off this medication because I take way too much. I does help me, but I don't want to become an addict.
I have consulted my psychiatrist and neurologist, but they have not been very helpful. I really need to get off this medication because I take way too much. I does help me, but I don't want to become an addict.
Hi dee,
You are correct, it is not a good idea to take fioricet on a daily basis for a long peroid of time because recent studies have shown ANY use of opioids or barbiturates and frequent use of triptans and NSIADs are associated with increased risk of transformed Migraine. See Transformed Migraine - Risk Increased by Some Medications for more information on this.
If you're taking pain medications suc as fioricet more than two days a week a real problem may be medication overuse headache (MOH), aka rebound. See Medication Overuse Headache - When the Remedy Backfires for more information on this. If you're in an MOH situation, nothing you take is going work, neither prescription nor "natural" medications nor over-the-counter. If that's the case, you need to work with your doctor to stop the medications causing the problem.
Anyone who has three or more Migraines a month needs to be talking with their doctor about prevention. There's growing evidence that Migraine is a progressive brain disease. A recent study showed that Migraines can cause brain damage, and that people with three or more Migraines a month are more susceptible to this damage. For more information see Is Migraine a Progressive Brain Disease? and Yes, Migraines Can Cause Brain Damage.
Good luck
Nancy
jjjj,
With all due respect, neurologists aren't necessarily Migraine specialists, and there are Harvard trained Migraine specialists who would very much disagree with yours. I'd encourage you to take a look at this short video with Dr. Elizabeth Loder - The Evolving Role of Migraine Prevention. Dr. Loder received an undergraduate degree from Harvard and is now an associate professor of neurology at Harvard Medical School.
Yes I read that article after I posted. I think new therapies should be tempered with experience with what actually works, and not just what pops up in journals or what is being theorized about. I can only speak for my neurologist, but he does continue with current education. This is part of retaining his license - continuing education. All neurologists go through this. And most neurologists see migraineurs daily. I think you have a strong opinion that is slightly anti neurologist because of your individual experience (a bad one). But you have no medical credentials and he sees thousands of migraineurs a year. I did go to a NP with a specialization in migraines and before even surmising my situation and frequency of headaches, she wanted to put me on a daily med with serious side effects (and who knows what long term effects). I almost did this too, and I think I would have regretted it. New therapies don't necessarily mean they will work for everyone, and you also have to realize that some studies are funded by drug companies. Fioricet is older, tried and true, works for many, and is cheap. Many of the "new" drugs have not been tested extensively and there are huge profits to be made by doctors pushing them on patients. Some of them have insane side effects, I know, I've tried them. It was like taking LSD, but didn't touch the headache. Drug companies are getting sued a lot lately. We need to look at the whole picture - new doesn't always equal good. And if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I also think people should be treated as individuals, not as a mass lump. What works for one, may not work for another. Fioricet works for me, but for someone else it may not work. I do know for a fact that the drug companies pushing their new migraine drugs have made an effort to "down" older drugs and tell many horror stories about them. The doctors getting this information and buy into it, start repeating it and then the stories start. Also, there is no known root cause of migraines, no definitive way to diagnose it, no sure, so even if someone is a so-called specialist in migraines, they are still essentially guessing. Just like a run-of-the-mill neurologist. They all read the articles, and hopefully combine that with experience to make the best judgement call.
jjjj,
OK, before things progress farther between us, I'm going to ask you to do some reading on this site, something you very obviously haven't done.
Some of your statements are quite broad generalizations that I don't think would stand up to scrutiny. Yes, neurologists probably do see Migraineurs daily. That doesn't mean that they treat them well. That's nothing against neurologists. To expect them to be current in Migraine or any one disease out of all that they treat would be unrealistic.
Read more of what I write, and you'll see that I often say that newer treatments are not always better too.
I am quite well aware of who funds most studies. Would you like to tell me who else is going to fund them? Although 12% of Americans have Migraines, the NIH allocates less than 1/10 of 1% of their budget to Migraine and headache research.
Kindly do not speak down to me about credentials. I do not give medical advice here, but I do try to help Migraineurs with information that they can discuss with their doctors. I attend the same continuing education conferences that doctors do and have many hours of continuing education in headache and Migraine medicine. I would never have spoken to you the way you have to me. We speak to each other with respect and kindness here.
Teri
Hi jjj,
Yup, fioricet has been around for some time now. So we KNOW what havoc it plays on our system, and just how damaging this combination of butalbital, acetminophen and caffein (in fioricet) is to our livers, kidney's and tummy's.
We are just starting to see the implications of long term opioid use in our brains, and the news isn't too good. Not just one journal article on this, but over 25 years worth of people taking opioids.
If people have two to three Migraine attacks every week, and take opioids that often, (52 weeks a year,) to relieve their Migraine pain, and are fully informed of the risks they pose, in my opinion, they can have at it.
Or, we can try to reduce our Migraine attacks with trigger identification and management, lifestyle changes and a good treatment and rescue plan that may include Migraine prevention, abortive and rescue medications. Our article Preventive, Abortive, and Rescue Medications - What's the Difference? discusses all three types of medication and is a valuable resource.
Good luck, jjj.
Nancy
jjjj,
You said "Yes I read that article after I posted." Seriously? Somehow, I wonder. After all, there's nothing there TO read. It's a video.
From reading your comments, there are evidently things that seem obvious to you, and that's fine. We all have those things, after all. Some of your points are quite excellent. I particularly like... "...new therapies should be tempered with experience with what actually works, and not just what pops up in journals or what is being theorized about."
What I find strange is that you seem to have such a burr up your butt about Teri when that's something she emphasizes on a regular basis. And I can't believe you actually had the unmitigated nerve to say to her, "But you have no medical credentials..." I'd love to see you stick around her with some of your excellent ideas, but you need to learn to see who you're talking to before you make such incredibly inappropriate and incorrect (and just plain stupid) comments.
Teri Robert is widely known to be the leading nonphysician expert on Migraine and other headache disorders in the world. She attends the same conferences the doctors do, and she probably has as many continuing education hours in headache medicine ass your neurologist has. Has your doctor appeared on CNN to talk about Migraines? Teri has. Does your doctor have a book out about Migraines and headaches, published by a big publisher (HarperCollins)? Teri does. Is your neurologist one of the founders of the Alliance for Headache Disorders Advocacy? Teri is. Does your neurologist go to Washington and visit Senators and Congressmen to get more research funding? Teri does. Get the point?
You seem to be a fairly intelligent person who is lacking in common sense and the ability to communicate well. You seem especially lacking in being able to make your point without having to denigrate the other person.
So, come on, jjjj. Loosen up and get to know people here. There are great people here, and you could have some great conversations. Just learn about people before you attack, because one thing you'll learn here is that none of us have much tolerance for people who disrespect Teri. She's done too much and been too good to too many people for us to sit back and not speak up.
Shalom.
Abi
Hi, Dee! Wow. I took Fiorinol for years for episodic migraine attacks and didn't have a problem with it.
Then along came menopause, my migraines transformed to almost daily, and taking too much Imitrex and Fiorinol became part of that cycle. I do think the changes in my migraines triggered the increased intake of the meds, and not the other way around, but last summer I weaned off of Fiorinol completely, began limiting sumatriptan intake, and my situation has improved.
I did not want to believe my neuro when he said no Fiorinol and no more than two days a week of treating with Imitrex or other pain meds... what would I do without the remedies that used to work for me and I had come to depend on? (And I don't call it a true "addiction," either, because I never had a problem not taking anything when I didn't have a migraine.) Hope that makes sense.
Also, I took Namenda (an Alzheimer's med) for a few months as a preventive to help try and break the chronic cycle; I think that helped as well.
Anyway, I was told I might have two or three really bad weeks but that if I had a severe attack I could go in for a nerve block. I really experienced only one or two bad attacks where I went through two-day episodes the way I used to years ago -- ice packs and bed, sick with pain and nausea. Now I am back to being borderline -- 8 - 12 days a month of migraine and they are less severe than in years past.
Each person is so individual in their experience and reaction to meds, etc., so you really need to find a doctor who will work through this with you. Do the two doctors you refer to advise you to keep taking the Firoicet? If they do, and I were you, I might consider looking for someone else. You just don't want to be compounding your migraines and risk having more of them because of the meds you are taking!
This is just my experience, and I hope it helps you as you consider your options.
Best wishes!
Betsy
Dee,
-:¦:-•:*'""*:•.-:¦:-•*Welcome to MyMigraineConnection!*•-:¦:-•:*'""*:•.-:¦:-
In addition to what Betsy and Nancy said, I want to add a couple of things...
If you're taking Fioricet daily, you should discontinue it under a doctor's care because of the butalbital in it.
Also, I would suggest that you find a new doctor to treat your Migraines. Your neurologist should be helpful to you regarding this issue. If your doctor can't or won't help you, it's time to consult a Migraine and headache specialist. It's important to note that neurologists aren't necessarily Migraine and headache specialists. Take a look at the article Migraine and Headache Specialists - What's So Special? If you need help finding a Migraine specialist, check our listing of Patient Recommended Migraine and Headache Specialists.
Good luck, Dee. Please let us know how you're doing?
Teri
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I'm not sure which is worse though, taking something else that could potentially have long term effects and serious side effects, or taking fioricet two times a week. Experienced neurologists seem to be in conflict with younger dr's on this topic regarding pushing daily meds vs. treating a headache when it comes. I think more research needs to be done on the disease process, as well as the preventative medications before the young ones jump the gun and push new pharmaceuticals because they read one or two articles. I've had migraines for about 11 years now, and have come to this conclusion based on my experiences with about 8 doctors and nurse practitioners - some ob/gyns, a neurologist, some family docs, some PAs or NPs. I go with my Harvard trained neurologist's advice since he deals most exclusively with this problem. I take fioricet once or twice a week, when needed and it always works. And it's never been addicting to me. When I encounter an NP or family doc, they usually want to push daily meds as a preventative without much thought.