Hi Pam,
Of course it's a must to take Vit D & calcium to aid in the prevention of fractures, providing that it does that, but, if it doesn't work, then one has to do the next available path which could be medication. We just have to hope that their are meds available with the least amount of side effects. Everyone has to do what works for them individually. You can't go by what works for someone else.
Hi Raven, thanks for joining us. Of course you are correct!! I would love to think that these two nutrients alone would be enough for all dealing with bone loss, but I have my doubts. What I couldn't find out is how low the t-scores were in the group and started to wonder if maybe those included didn't have severly low scores and that's why it did prevent fractures.
I thought it was an interesting topic that we could all shed some light on since we are going through this ourselves. Personally, I took both calcium and vitamin D and still fractured, so we know that can be the case for some. I also had a secondary causes for osteo as well, so that could also explain why supplements alone didn't work for me, but they still remain very important as part of our regimen.
I don't blame my fractures on calcium or D, and I continue to take them, but for some of us it's not enough, and maybe for others it is.
Thanks again, I always appreciate your knowledgable input.
Pam
Hi again, good for you with your treatment routine. Your explanation is yet another example where this theory (cal+D) would not work. I do hope there are many where this will work, and according to the study there were, but we have to remember we all react differently to all treatment plans, and when one does not work we move on to something else.
Good luck with your future treatment plans.
Pam
Hi Raven, I understand what you're saying and agree wholeheartedly...
Many of you can't take the traditional osteo meds, and we'd like to hear from you too! And to find out what you think about this study, and if it seems like something that would work for you.
Please let us know so we can hear all sides of this issue, since there were many that this worked for, and some of you may be out there reading this.
We'd appreciate all differing personal input.
Hi Pam, another good question. I don't know if caclium and vit D alone could prevent fractures, UNLESS you are one of the fortunate people who have not lost any bone density with age. I know several women my age who still have denstiy well into the normal range. Its too bad that in the study they didn't include exercise, diet or any of the other things we do to help our bones. By limiting the study to calcium and D they took out alot of factors that all add up to making improvements. This leads to another point...its not just one or two things that help improve density, its a combination of all the things we do. Maybe if a person starts calcium and D supplementing at a younger age that maybe those 2 could make a difference in how their bones age and a reduction of future fractures. We are all individuals and what works for one may not for someone else. the main thing is finding what works for you and sticking to it. take care..phyllis
Hi Phyllis, thanks for joining us. It's true that the treatment of osteoporosis is rarely limited to one or two supplements. I agree we all know that exercise, diet, and lifestyle are major contributors to this treatment.
Since there were 80,000 participants in this study that's a lot of people helped by calcium and D so it is encouraging. I'm glad that this study showed that these two nutrients helped prevent fractures. We know that not all of us will have these results but they are saying that a very large number of people did which is amazing.
Thanks again...
Hi again Phyllis, I forgot to mention how important it is that we stick to our treatment, just like you said. Since we are all different, we all will have differing treatments. It would be nice if just one treatment worked well for all, but unfortunately that is not the case.
I think it would have been impossible to include more parameters in this study like exercise, diet etc., because then it would have been impossible trying to figure out which of these gave the most benefit. But you are right. Now if we had a study with just Ca and D and another with Ca, D, exercise, other supplements then we could study the two head to head and see which of the two had greater fracture prevention.
This is off-topic, but with this news about fosamax and femur fractures on the news, I wonder if we will ever find out what else these people were doing for bone loss. If we could find out what else they may have been including in their tx, that might give us more info on who is more likely to suffer this type of injury from fosamax. Just a thought...
Thanks again for your great ideas...
Hi Priya thanks for joining us... I looked at "one" of the studies included in this meta-analysis and the amount of calcium taken was 1,000 mg of elemental Ca and 400 IU's of D. Now I'm not sure that was the amount in all the studies included in these results.
If you read the UC Davis article, it says they "still need" to determine the amounts of Ca and D, so I'm a little confused. I was unable to get the British Med. Journal copy that was released in January so I only have the UC Davis and a NEJM article to use for corroboration.
Maybe you could find another one of these studies and see if the amounts taken were similar to the study I mentioned above.
Thanks again...
Hi Larry, thanks for joining us... I agree with you on the enormity of this study; 80,0000 people is an incredibly large group to study over 15 years so it does seem like excellent news.
You're right that treatment protocals for other medical disorders are often determined from much smaller studies, which always bothers me some. When we see these large studies it gives me more hope about the outcome of it and how much credibility they have.
I too think this is good news, I just wish we had more people to look to where this happened with CA and D.
Thanks for your input...
Hi Forum,
I understand that magnesium levels are as important as the calcium and vitamin D. Without adequate magnesium, the calcium is not absorbed properly. Here is an article concerning this:
Osteoporosis treatment is many times comprised of Calcium and Vitamin D supplements alone. The missing link in making calcium usable for our bones is magnesium. Magnesium is needed for calcium absorption. Without enough magnesium, calcium can collect in the soft tissues and cause one type of arthritis. Not only does calcium collect in the soft tissues of arthritics, it is poorly, if at all, absorbed into the blood and bones. Taking more calcium, however, is not the answer; it only amplifies the problem. In fact, excessive calcium intake and insufficient magnesium can contribute to both of these diseases. Magnesium taken in proper dosages can solve the problem of calcium deficiency.
When calcium is elevated in the blood it stimulates the secretion of a hormone called calcitonin and suppresses the secretion of the parathyroid hormone (PTH). These hormones regulate the levels of calcium in our bones and soft tissues and are, therefore, directly related to both osteoporosis and arthritis. PTH draws calcium out of the bones and deposits it in the soft tissues, while calcitonin increases calcium in our bones and keeps it from being absorbed in our soft tissues. Sufficient amounts of magnesium determine this delicate and important balance.
Because magnesium suppresses PTH and stimulates calcitonin it helps put calcium into our bones, preventing osteoporosis, and helps remove it from our soft tissues eliminating some forms of arthritis. A magnesium deficiency will prevent this chemical action from taking place in our bodies, and no amount of calcium can correct it. While magnesium helps our body absorb and retain calcium, too much calcium prevents magnesium from being absorbed. So taking large amounts of calcium without adequate magnesium may either create malabsorption or a magnesium deficiency. Whichever occurs, only magnesium can break the cycle.
Magnesium is responsible for many biochemical processes within the bone. It is essential for the conversion of vitamin D to its biologically active form. The typical American diet is frequently very low in magnesium. Many surveys have indicated that over 80 percent of Americans get less than the Recommended Dietary Intake (RDI) of this all important mineral. A general recommendation is to supplement in a 2:1 ratio, Calcium to Magnesium (both measurements in mg), depending on your intake of magnesium containing foods. Food is always the preferable method of obtaining any nutrient. Following is a chart of magnesium content of foods.
Note that magnesium has a laxative effect and also makes one quite mellow. Use these effects as indicators on dosage. Evening is a good time to take Calcium and Magnesium to use the drowsiness effect, and to counter the bone resorption that normally peaks during sleep. Magnesium Citrate, Aspartate, or Orotate are absorbed better than Magnesium Oxide.
Mike
Hi Mike, you are correct about the ratio of magnesium to calcium, and I think one of our members mentioned that in this thread. The study done on these supplements didn't include a lot of things, but hopefully we all know that we need to take magnesium and other bone supplements along with our weight bearing exercise to slow bone loss. Thanks for all your info it was very informative and appreciated.
Join us anytime we'd love to talk to you more.
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Hi Pam,
Of course it's a must to take Vit D & calcium to aid in the prevention of fractures, providing that it does that, but, if it doesn't work, then one has to do the next available path which could be medication. We just have to hope that their are meds available with the least amount of side effects. Everyone has to do what works for them individually. You can't go by what works for someone else.
How about strontium citrate that builds bone instead of the typical precribed meds for osteo that stop bone loss, but we are still left with brittle bones??
Is anyone familiar with the strontium citrate?
Hi Dee, welcome! Here's an article on Strontium Citrate from one of our members who is taking it and doing very well. Since we all react differently to supplements and meds, it's hard to say how you would do, but I know many who prefer this over the traditional meds.
Here's an interesting study on micronutrients for bone health. In this study (COMB) they use Strontium Citrate with other micronutrients. Combination of Micronutrients for Bone (COMB) Study: Bone Density after Micronutrient Intervention
Faculty of Medicine, University of Alberta, Edmonton, AB, T6K 4C1, Canada
2Department of Family Medicine, University of Calgary, Calgary, AB, T2N 1N4, Canada
Let us know what you think on this, and I'll give you some more links on this.
From what I've read, there doesn't seem to be a problem with brittle bones with strontium citrate. You can also look at Protelos, the prescription equivalent in the EU manufactured by Servier Pharmaceutical. Also, here's and additional story on Servier under Pharmaceutical review. The preceding link is from Medscape, so you have to log in and have a membership, which is free and easy to set-up.
Keep in mind that you have to adjust your DXA score when you take strontium. I know some believe you don't have to do this, but strontium is denser than calcium and could cause the scan to over-estimate your score.
Good luck and let us know what you think!
Thank You Pam for the articles.
I want to do as much research as I can pertaining to the strontium citrate, calcium, vitamin D3. I have read to prevent the calcium from getting into our arteries that we should add vitamin K2, which will prevent that from happening.
Also some are adding Lactoferrin and Boron.
I'm one that has to read all of the ingredients in everything because I have intolerances to gluten, dairy, (lactose & casein), and soy. I am not a celiac, but have collagenous colitis, (microscopic colitis), which unfortunately, predisposes me to food intolerances.
The more info the better & I really appreciate it.
Hi Dee, so sorry about your allergies and other medical issues. Yes vitamin K2 is essential and wondered which one you're taking? I take Life Extensions K complex which has both K2 (mk4) and K2 (mk7) If you have any heart problems, be sure to watch for symptoms of tachycardia or atrial fibrillation. I haven't notice either, and I do have many heart probs.
Boron and Lactoferrin are also good, but I haven't tried the Lactoferrin yet. Wondering if those with milk allergies can take it, but I've heard that some can. I just need to do more research before I jump on the band wagon.
We're still waiting for the clinical trial results, out of UC Davis, on Strontium Citrate; but I've called and written many times and just can't find out what the status is on this study (SCOPES Trial). It would be nice if they'd publish it, or if it's been canceled, at least tell us that.
Good luck and join us any time we'd love to hear from you! If I hear "anything" on the UC Davis study on SC, I'll certainly let you know since I know many are waiting for this and wondering what happened to it!
Still trying to get my ducks in a row before starting the strontium citrate,
I am considering the Life Extensions K2. You mentioned having heart problems, so that does concern me. I have PAT and take Digoxin and Atenolol to keep the heart rhythm controlled. For the ones that take the strontium, when do you take it? I'm considering before bed time. And did you start out with half a dose for a week and then go to the full dose? I have a friend who started taking it and she expereinced headaches, so she advised the half dose and then up it to the full.
Thanks A Bunch