Swine Flu and Immune-Suppressing Drugs

Just curious what effect the dahlia extract has, why it would make it stronger?

Hello Ellen,

They put Dahlia extract in vaccine to make it stronger.  10 times stronger.  So less vaccine is needed, saving drug co's billions of bucks  $'s.

I really want to know when are we going to get drugs that are NOT Immune Supressants - its a dreadful thing to take away someone's immune system even further with drugs.  Look what happened with my lung  !

What we need is drugs to modulate the immune system or shut off the immune response.

Actually, I've been told by a doctor that Enbrel (that I take) is actually an immune modulator.  It attaches to certain B cells and escorts them out of the body.  It's half life is only 3 days, so it wears off pretty fast, which is reassuring when I feel I may be coming down with something.  BUt that's why it takes 2 shots a week (25 mg dose).

     Remicade seems to be stronger and faster, at least in my experience.  The doctor won't give it if there is even an unhealed cut on your hand, for instance, because it neutralizes the inflammatory factors (I don't know as much about which immune cells it targets - each med is a little different in its action). 

     The problem with inflammatory diseases is kind of ironic: we actually need a certain amount of inflammation to heal and to ward off bacteria.  But too much inflammation is harmful.  I work in the science department at a university, and went to a seminar to hear about some research in brain inflammation (things like Alzheimer's).  When the researchers created mice that couldn't produce inflammation in their bodies (their immune systems were totally 'knocked out') they didn't live to adulthood, they simply died.  So some inflammation is necessary for health.

     I'm not sure what the difference would be between shutting off the immune response and taking an immune suppressant would be...

     But as my GP doctor says: there's no free lunch.  EVen with just pain meds, there are often risks to stomach, or heart, or liver, depending on the specific medicine, and the tolerance of the patient.

Hi - I found this link about dahlia extract via Google.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/opinion/post/-/blog/melodyhorril/post/10/comment/1/

I was not aware of this!  My father-in-law also had a terrible reaction to the flu, though not as long lasting as yours.  I am sorry you are still suffering from it!  Steven-Johnson syndrome sounds pretty serious...

Other links say dahlia extract is just inulin, a non-soluble dietary fiber, which is now put in Stonyfield yogurt for bowel health/constipation, and is also in a lot of other plants),   I have not personally had a problem and really like their yogurt. 

But there could be more than one kind of extract from a plant.  It's not really clear.  I guess we need to be aware of these risks...

Hope you are able to get some treatment and feel better soon ...

My husband won't get flu shots either - says he gets a lot more colds when he does! (which is what used to happen to me - hope he's not going to get RA too!)

Hello Ellen - thanks for the replies.   Out of 6 other RA friends - 2 others are allergic to vaccines too.  The others are OK with it. 

I don't think we know enough about RA as yet with some of these drugs and additives.

The new H1N1 Swine flu vaccine lots being made here in Australia.  Some of the makers are adding Squalene.  Only they don't tell y it is squalene they print it as either MF59 or AS03 or some other number.  Real dangerous stuff when y google it.  I won't be trying swine vax for some time I'll wait and see how many it kills first  !!  They used this stuff squalene,in the 60's or 70's in a swine flu vax and it killed too many people and vaccine was taken off market

I think either stem cells or gene technology or something akin will help our RA eventually.

I think moderating the disease or halting the RA process (other than all the inflammation) is the way forward.  I don't believe we know all that much about RA as yet.  Its not a 'sexy' disease not as many sufferers as cancer or diabetes.

As you say some win and some don't on these biologics.  My Professor of RA tells me Enbrel, Remicade and all the current biologics are Immuno Supressants that's why I can't have them as the Aspergillus fungus will return if I am any more suppressed with drugs.  The mere fact that we have RA makes us somewhat immuno supressed to begin with and to add to that more supression, for some people is not tolerated, like me.   I do know 2 people that these have worked for albeit with some side effects.

However after 8 months on Enbrel my neighbour was flown by helicopter to a large city hospital she was within 1 hour of dying at the local hospital.  Enbrel had shut down her nervous system.

So please be carefull onall this stuff - do not ignor any side effects or something that is not right.

Thanks for the info - how are you finding all this out?  I'd be curious to know. Do you have a contact in the pharma sector?  (If you have to keep this confidential, I understand).

Hello Ellen - thanks for the replies.   Out of 6 other RA friends - 2 others are allergic to vaccines too.  The others are OK with it. 

I don't think we know enough about RA as yet with some of these drugs and additives.

The new H1N1 Swine flu vaccine lots being made here in Australia.  Some of the makers are adding Squalene.  Only they don't tell y it is squalene they print it as either MF59 or AS03 or some other number.  Real dangerous stuff when y google it.  I won't be trying swine vax for some time I'll wait and see how many it kills first  !!  They used this stuff squalene,in the 60's or 70's in a swine flu vax and it killed too many people and vaccine was taken off market

I think either stem cells or gene technology or something akin will help our RA eventually.

I think moderating the disease or halting the RA process (other than all the inflammation) is the way forward.  I don't believe we know all that much about RA as yet.  Its not a 'sexy' disease not as many sufferers as cancer or diabetes.

As you say some win and some don't on these biologics.  My Professor of RA tells me Enbrel, Remicade and all the current biologics are Immuno Supressants that's why I can't have them as the Aspergillus fungus will return if I am any more suppressed with drugs.  The mere fact that we have RA makes us somewhat immuno supressed to begin with and to add to that more supression, for some people is not tolerated, like me.   I do know 2 people that these have worked for albeit with some side effects.

However after 8 months on Enbrel my neighbour was flown by helicopter to a large city hospital she was within 1 hour of dying at the local hospital.  Enbrel had shut down her nervous system.

So please be carefull onall this stuff - do not ignor any side effects or something that is not right.

My older brother had 2 Ph.D degrees and a B.Cs in Toxicology.   When I first started on RA meds. I'd ask him all about them as I didn't have a computer 20 yrs. ago.  Some meds worked for me and others didn't.  My brother knew the truth about chemicals. He said to always question everything and - if it is working for you or not.  Once on it then go off it and if you are worse go back on it.  Take breaks from it from time to time.

I did ask my Rheumy after about 5 yrs if meth. was working for me and how would I know.  He told me not to be negative to my meds. and all his patients were on it.  Then 4 yrs.later I lost half my left lung.  They got me to do a trial of another new cancer drug also an immuno supressant but the fungus came back.

So I am very wary.   I just don't know how they get away with some of the horrible stuf they put in some meds.  Our TGA is just useless and does NOT regulate anything like your FDA.  Although sadly the make up of 'experts' in your FDA are drug company executives.  Given this they are not out to help us but to gain every more profits.  I believe the drug company's reap 1/4 of western country's gdp.

Recently there was a big news thing about a drug company and a sales rep had blown the whistle on them.  Many people were dying and he had been told to tell doctors to up the doses for other diseases as well as the disease it was FDA approved for.

Our own Dr. Mark Borighini has said al lot of the current drugs are to be used with caution and how they are immuno suppressants.

I often look at the FDA site and to get an idea how many other people are adversely affected by certain drugs look at www.webMD.co.  If your father looked at this site he would have someone else who had exactly the same reaction to the flu vaccine that he did I'd bet.

Anyway try everything but as our Dr. Mark says - with caution.

I am hoping and praying for stem cell therapy and gene therapy which I believe will hold the answers for RA that we all seek.

Keep up you good work on this site

Kind regards

Next time please tell your doctor about your allergies. The next time you are innoculated,  I recommend you ask your doctor about a supplementary dose of Eugenex Contravivum Forte. ECVF will dramatically reduce the period of time you experience discomfort from the vaccination.

Dr. Todt - thanks for the reply I will certainly ask GP about Eugenesc Con.t Forte. The thing was with the ordinary Flu vax I had in March it gave me severe Stevens-Johnson Syndrom and I still have that.   It mostly targets the genital area and stomach.  It burns you from the inside out.  Nothing much seems to stop the burn, hives and itch.  Silversene for burns does not work, cortisone neither.    I recently found an exczma gel and I add 20 drops of Lavender Oil to it and it works for a few blessed hours then back it all comes.

So would Eugenesc C.F stop this kind of reaction.

I am thinking from now on that I will only have half the dose of flu vax.  Until I can find what strength dahlia extract they using.  Anything that is injected into the skin/blood stream circulates more powerfully, faster and stronger than a pill going through liver stomach etc.

Have you googled  MF59 and AS03 - they relate to the H1N1 vax.  It is another name for squalene that they used back in 70's anthrax vax and it gave all the defence forces troops Gulf War Syndrome.

It is a real worry.

Anyway it is all a mess the vaccines ramp up the immune system while many of us are taking drugs that are all immune suppressants  ?

How will this work - is it counteractive ?

Here is a link to an article that speaks directly to the issue if you are using Humira, which targets the same molecule as Remicade according to my Rheumatologist.

Enbrel may be different.

The thing to remember is that the flu kills a lot of people every year.  Admittedly those who are less healthy, very young or elderly are more at risk.  None-the-less, the flu is a risk that has to be weighed against the risk of a flu shot. That's why many doctors recommend getting the shot.

http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/852571020057CCF68525722700635F08?OpenDocument&c=&count=10&id=48dde4a73e09a969852568880078c249