Thursday, May 31, 2012

Serial Anti-TNFs questions and an explaination of why serial anti-TNFs makes sense

By BerserkeRA Wednesday, November 16, 2011

Have you taken more than one anti-TNF?  These drugs include:

1) Infliximab (Remicade)

2) Adalimumab (Humira)

3) Golimumab (Simponi)

4) Etanercept (Enbrel)

5) Certolizumab pegol (Cimzia)

 

Which order did you take them in?  What were your results?

 

My first biologic was Enbrel, which didn't seem to do much for me and I did not stay on it very long (1.5-2 months?).  Next, I tried Remicade and it worked very well for a short time.  I called it magic koolaid it worked so well.  However, within 5-6 months, it no longer worked at all.

 

My next biologic is up to me to pick after my recent infusion incident with Actemra.  I'm leaning towards Humira and would love to hear a victory on humira after trying remicade, but more than that, I'd love to hear your experiences with anti-TNFs.

 

There is a lot of clinical research out there showing that it probably makes sense to try multiple anti-TNF drugs, but the caveat is that the evidence seems to show that as you try and fail these drugs, the probability that you will have a good result on the next seems to decrease.

 

That may not make a lot of sense, given that they are all the same class of drug, but it turns out that while they all target cytokines through the manipulation of TNF-alpha, they have different methods of action (for example, they don't all work for crohn's disease due to chemical differences) and therefore failing off one (or two) doesn't mean the next one won't be your miracle drug, just that your chances of success are reduced.

 

If you think about it, however, that makes complete sense given that anti-TNFs are only effective for roughly 67% of patients.  Some of the people who try one of these drugs suceed on their first attempt.  Some people, do not, and try again with the next drug.  Keep in mind that 67% though.  For some of us (33% in fact), no anti-TNF is going to work and it simply doesn't matter how many are tried or in what order. 

 

So, on the first drug attempt, we are all in the same pot, but once you fail off a drug, you have a smaller chance for the next to work -- but that smaller probablity is impacted by the fact that the number of people for whom no anti-TNF drug will work is now *relatively* larger (because we just took all of those lucky souls who suceed on the first drug out of the pool).  As you keep moving down the line, this number continues to get larger and larger relative to the total number of people still trying anti-TNF drugs.

 

There is a lot of confusing evidence out there (especially in a 2011 paper) about whether taking a drug and out-right failing it (e.g. it never works) versus taking a drug, having an intial response, and then having the response fade to zero (e.g. it works like magic, but 5 months later it doesn't work at all) offers a better chance of success.  In fact, from what I could see, it depends on how you evaluate the disease (i.e. ACR vs. DAS vs. EULAR) as to which is better Sealed.  Ack.  Let's just go with 'the Jury's still out on this one' (although the initial evidence presented in 2005-2006 seemed to show you were better off if you had an initial response and then failed down the road.

11/16/11 8:45pm

So far I was on Enbrel successfully for about a year. Remicade worked for me for maybe six months. (The jury is still out on what helped more, the very expensive drug or a day off in a comfy chair.) Simponi never worked at all.

 

Right now I'm at the highest safe dose of Sulfasalazine, soon to add Plaquenil. I'm hoping the pills will keep me together long enough to finish paying for my Remicade adventure before I start the next biologic.

11/17/11 2:39pm

Thanks for your reply!

 

So, if I understand correctly, you are not taking any biologic right now?  I'm also on sulfasalazine.  I don't think it is doing anything for me really, except to screw up my appetite and sense of taste ;)  That's also all that plaquenil did for me.  Here's hoping they are working better for you!

V, Health Guide
11/16/11 9:17pm

Hi, Berzerka,

 

Thanks for writing this post.  I am always interested in these kind of articles. This is really timely for me!  I have to share my very recent good news!  I have been on Humira for almost exactly three months.  I took my 6th shot a couple of days ago.  I feel as though someone flipped a switch. I feel better than I have felt in decades!  At first Humira helped my fatigue a bit, then it started helping the joint pain. I have had two marvelous days in a row.  Even if it doesn't last, I am SO thankful for these past two days.  I certainly hope it continues.  I really hope you can try Humira, Berzerka, and I hope it helps you.  It did take three months to kick in, so try to be patient, if you do get to try Humira.  I'm pulling for you!

 

Take care,

V

11/17/11 2:40pm

Thanks V!

 

I am thrilled you are getting some relief from the humira!  That's awesome news, and I hope it snowballs from here!

V, Health Guide
11/20/11 6:53pm

Yes, it is such a relief!  I still have some pain in my joints, and swelling, but that awful sick, can't put one foot in front of the other feeling is GONE. Woo Hoo!  I hope you can try it and that it works for you, too!

 

V

 

11/16/11 10:15pm

So far i have only been on Humira now for about 5 months now. an i really dont think its working for me. i have new area where i have been hurting lately, I pray that this one well work for you . take care an God bless

11/17/11 2:41pm

Thanks for your reply Suzzy. 

 

Do you have any ideas on what you might try next?

11/17/11 5:50pm

no i dont now i have an app in mid december to see my rhuemy----i know it wont be mtx injections i couldnt take the pill

11/17/11 5:59pm

Ah that's too bad about the MTX.  Did it cause your LFTs to go crazy?

11/19/11 6:58am

no my lips were like they was on fire, an i had lots of black tarry stool, just felt like i was a zombie all the time couldnt think i was only on it for 2 weeks

11/17/11 11:29pm

I started on Enbrel in '98 right after it came out and went into a medicated remission for a few years. Then I started with sinus infections and spent more time off then on. I stayed on Enbrel until I got pregnant in 2001. Since then I have lost complete control of my RA.

 

I tried Humira with absolutely no reaction, Remicade worked for almost a year and a half and then I had a major reaction in my doctors office, nearly passed out in the chair after having an allergic reaction...extremely low heart rate. Scared me to death.

 

I went back to Enbrel because we didn't know what the heck to do. I was still having issues so we doubled my weekly dose to two shots a week and my RA was awesome...only problem? I could not stay healthy to save my life. 7 weeks of colitis followed by 5 weeks of bronchitis. Ended up in the ER twice in those 12 weeks.

 

I finally had to change doctors and practically put up a fit to get changed to Orencia and I'm not doing well on it. I'm having surgery soon and will be off meds for 3 months so there really isn't much point in changing at this point. But let me tell you when I start back up in March/April I'm going to push with all I have to try something else.

 

I went to Cleveland Clinic to talk with a rheumy there...he said I had about a 50% chance of responding to any meds out there right now considering my past history. And he finished with most likely none of those meds will put me into remission, they will just hold back progressive damage in my joints in the future. Yes, that was a depressing visit...

 

Good luck with your search for the right biologic!

11/18/11 11:59am

Thank you, Melissa, for sharing your story.  It's sad to hear that you can't tolerate Enbrel because of sides when it works so well for you.  That's how I am with antimetabolites (MTX and Arava -- both are like magic for me, and both try to kill me lol).   I think the only thing worse than knowing none of the drugs are working, is knowing that a drug works perfectly, but yet you can't take it.

Lene Andersen, Health Guide
11/23/11 11:31am

I started on Enbrel and it worked like magic. However, I had a lot of side effects that after two years on the drug limited me as much as the RA itself. I was switched to Humira and it also worked very well with fewer side effects.

 

I wish there was very clear  evidence one way or another, but as you mentioned, how that drug works, whether it works it all and how many go into remission depends very much on the index of measurement used. At the end of the day though, I'm with you - if there's a drug on the market that might work,go for it.

11/23/11 2:43pm

I was talking to my Rheumy about this the other day, and it's a shame that, at least here in the USA, sometimes the insurance companies have more impact on whether you can take a 2nd or 3rd anti-TNF than the science does.  I guess that's a topic for a different day, though ;)

Lene Andersen, Health Guide
11/23/11 2:58pm

don't get me started. Just don't get me started. I'm trying to be all Zen-like today. Wink

Ask a Question

Get answers from our experts and community members.

Btn_ask_question_med
View all questions (3514) >
By BerserkeRA— Last Modified: 11/25/11, First Published: 11/16/11