Monday, September 14, 2009 Faye asks

Q: Fear of co-worker

Thank you both for your quick replies. Brain imbalances do not bother me - frankly, we all have them to some extent. I am very honoured that she trusted me enough to confide in me. This is not a question of lets get rid of or stigmatizing this woman. This is a question of protecting onesself should &, knowing the warning signs of, someone with schizophrenia becoming violent. She told me of her homocidal thoughts with such venom that I became very frightened. She's told me of her suicide attempts. Even though only 3% of people with schizophrenia become violent, I want to know what the warning signs are so that I can protect myself - which at this point, is my only responsibility. Afterwhich, I can think about assisting her. That is the order of my priorities. The responsibility of monitoring her medication belongs to her, her professional medical team, her family and her friends. Not to me as her co-worker & trainer. As far as protecting her rights, I know what the ADA states as both me and several of my loved ones are protected; I would fight for anyones rights. She has only been in my presence 1 1/2 days. My responsibility is to myself. I do not want to get hurt should that something - what ever that something is that causes anyone to hurt anyone, happens. As a side note, she told me when I met her was that she was going through menopause. On Saturday, she told me she was taking Geodon, Neurontin and estrogen.

Please help me to understand the warning signs.

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Answers (4)

Christina Bruni, Health Guide

9/16/09 10:53pm

Hello Faye,

I answered this second question of yours and now I see the response didn't go through.

You did not indicate in your first question that she had homicidal thoughts.

Had I known that up front, I wouldn't have suggested you were stigmatizing her.

Your fear is legitimate. She has indicated she could be violent.

The criteria for admission to a hospital is that the person is a danger to herself or someone else. Not taking a suicide threat seriously is a mistake especially if the person has tried in the past to commit suicide.

This is the short answer, as I wrote you a longer one and I do not see it posted here although I spent an hour answering you this morning!

So you asked about warning signs: the homocidal thoughts are enough of a warning sign. I realize now you are noble and want to do the right thing and have empathy for this woman. However it sounds like she may need to go into the hospital.

She is struggling for dear life to cling to her sanity. You have indicated she wants to go off her medication. Should that be the case, violence would be possible if she weren't taking her medication.

Regards,

Christina

Donna-1

9/14/09 4:15pm

I'm sorry -- I should have addressed your original question rather than defending people with schizophrenia. What are the signs she might be becoming violent? I don't know. I would just guess it is the same signs you would get from anyone else. A combative stance, raised level of voice or shouting, brandishing anything that could be used as a weapon, what seems like obvious depression (could lead to her hurting herself.) And I believe it has been proven that asking about homicidal or suicidal urges does not make them worse or encourage them. My supervisor asked me to come to her first if I felt violent toward myself or others, and she promised to help me if that occurred. It is your responsibility as a supervisor to protect everyone -- co-employees, yourself, the young woman, customers, etc. -- by being on the alert. And you know that. This may be an extra burden on you, but there's not much you can do about that. I had a psychiatrist once who thought I was suicidal; he called the police and asked them to go to my office and handcuff me and take me to a local hospital for evaluation. And that's what happened. And that was the right thing for him to have done. Once, I bought a gun to kill myself with and my boyfriend found it. He called my parents, they called the police, and once again I was cuffed and taken to the hospital and my gun was gone when I finally returned home. Sometimes a person will make suicidal gestures as a cry for help -- they don't know how to ask for help or who to ask. It might help if she knows she can come to you if she needs help. That's all I can think of to say.

Carolyn

Faye

9/14/09 4:47pm

Carolyn, thank you for responding again & not writing me off as someone who doesn't care. Yes, I do have a responsibility to everyone concerned - myself first and my ill employee. It's a tiny office & only we two are here (only the occasional customer) I appreciate your sharing your experience with me. I've been torn about contacting the authorities and/or her psychiatrist (she gave me the name of her doc). I didn't contact anyone because of semantics. She stated that she wants to die, to commit suicide - she didn't say she was going to attempt it. I will do my best to educate myself. I have so much respect for her; she's starting back to school in mid-life & working - this was all I knew when I hired her. Now, I have even more admiration because of the illness she is living with. Thank you again for helping me not to be afraid. Best of wishes.

abcd

9/14/09 8:54pm

This incident happened approx. 20 years ago, but am relating it to you in the hopes it might prove of some use.

i had a neighbor living 2 buildings away from me. A woman in her fifties, at a guess. We would occasionally meet at the hair-dressers and exchange a few friendly words. She had two grown sons, i knew but little else.

One day i met her on the street with her younger son, then aged 21 years. i had never met him before and knew nothing about him. Even to this day i still remember the impression he made to me. Perhaps because of what happened later on in the afternoon.

He was very aggitated, shaking, and made an impression of extreme unpleasantness. i wished my neighbor a good time and hurried away; there was something so very off-putting about this young man's presence...

i forgot all about them. In the late afternoon of the same day my roommate said to me: "Look, there are fire-fighters at M...'s building. i hope nothing happened at M...'s apartment."

Well, we lived in a small town, and later on in the evening we all heard it on the local news. M...'s son had attacked her with a knife to kill. He stabbed her over and over again. He missed her heart by just a little something. She was lucky to be alive, and spend the next 6 months in hospital and re-hab.

Her son was mentally ill and of course hospitalized. When i visited her at the hospital she told me this wasn't the first time he attacke, but the first time he attacked to kill.

Perhaps this might be of help, but please don't think that most people with a mental affliction are also violent. This is simply untrue!!!!

Christina Bruni, Health Guide

9/17/09 12:03pm

Hello Faye,

I simply wanted to make a clarification in response to my second response about the hospital as I have been thinking a long time about your situation. I also have a suggestion about helping the co-worker be less agitated.

I wanted clarification about whether someone who expressed an interest in suicide necessarily has to go into the hospital. I was told that the suicide hotline would talk in detail about the options a person has when he or she is feeling suicidal and calls them for help.

The suicide hotline is (800) 273-TALK (8255). They will best be in a position to tell her what her options are along with or as an alternative to hospitalization.

The woman at the NAMI hotline advised me, "You don't know"-when it comes to whether a person will follow through with her interest in committing suicide, you just don't know so any comment should be taken seriously.

As you understand, your safety is your main concern and you do not want to be a victim of violence. You also have no responsbility for whatever action she chooses or does not choose to take regarding her talk of suicide. Your intuition has guided you to not call her doctor and I understand that. The woman reached out to you possibly because she felt comfortable doing so and needed that support in order to do her job. Again your empathy is well-noted.

So I have a suggestion, because you asked how you could calm her down so she wouldn't be agitated. I debated including it because it may seem far afield. That is to play classical or instrumental music in the background in the office. Some kind of pleasant, calming music. Could be Lite FM-type stations if that is not too distracting.

Regards,

Christina

Faye

9/17/09 12:19pm

Dear Christina, I can't thank you enough for taking the time and energy to help me. It is funny that you mentioned playing classical music in the background. I had my classical station on her first day of training but, did not have it on the second day of training which was Saturday. I'll make certain that I have it on tomorrow. Thank you again for all that you've done.

Faye

9/18/09 11:37am

I wanted to give you all an update & to thank you again for helping me.

My trainee came to work today on time, & did a fine job up until about 10 minutes ago when she told me that she is "very sick. ER sick" and she doesn't know why she gets this way and that maybe she'd need to get a job where she can move around more. I asked her to take an early lunch & think it over & to come back & let me know what she decides as she's the only one who'll know if this is the type of job for her. From the way she was talking, I do not think that she'll stay. I'm very sad that she feels the way that she does as she is doing just fine but, I do not know what she is going through internally.

I appreciate the support that you've given me these past few days. I hope for only the best for all of you.

Best wishes,

Faye

Christina Bruni, Health Guide

9/19/09 8:53pm

Hello Faye,

I applaud your sensitivity and I understand that sometimes working at the job you love helps control the symptoms and distract you from your illness. I admire the woman's courage to pursue finding work even though it may be difficult for her because I have worked 10 years at the job I love and if I didn't work here, I'd be a lot sicker. So your willingness to consider her or anyone else with a mental illness, as a co-worker, I can only think highly of.

Regards,

Christina

Q: Fear of co-worker

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